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Demon Posession
- Thread starter 4Jesus
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Terri, see my post #40. I gave the reason for Jesus saying what he did in Matt.12:43-45.
Gee I sure like yur flashy smilie face, I snagged a copy of it for my private collection!
Gee I sure like yur flashy smilie face, I snagged a copy of it for my private collection!
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Originally posted by Terri
Thanks 4Jesus!
Give me back my smilie face!
Nay nay never! Tis mine, Yeow-zer, but how about a hug for it?
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Originally posted by Terri
I don't get what you are trying to say.
The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost--what could Ezekiel have to do with that?
Paul the apostle says he had a thorn in his side... but it wasn't life threatening by any means, he relates how the Lord left it to remind him of his humanity.... more or less...
I think part of this life and being saved is learning to discern Jesus' voice from the world and spirtis of the world around us... and even in Paul's case, possibly within, for the better, to fully strengthen us both inward and out...
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No, I just pointed that direction for Eve because Pastors are easier to spot...
Cmon over here 4Jesus we'll get rid of your demons no problems, with very few words as well....
They don't like me. oh well.
'Couse then again you will have to walk back into the world, so best you pray, ask Jesus, and gain that knowledge completely for yourself because its not all that simple, more than a days lesson... and then how to work with the Holy Ghost in that capacity...
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Hello Live4Jesus, You must have missed it, in post #36 I asked you about a comment you made in post #34. Could you please answer me?
Thanks
4Jesus
Thanks
4Jesus
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I said I pointed her in the direction of Pastors (add in - with these gifts) because they are easier to spot.
for instance she would never find me I am not listed in the phone book under that category.
of course, in the right church she would meet many who also have these gifts of the spirit, if she looked.
Does that help?
Insofar as Mark 16:18, are you suggesting serpents here as being related to demons? you may be right, I actually never considered that passage like that...
I like it though...
Far as healing, we do that here too, with my daughter I sit her rght on my lap till whatever it is goes...
Let the Holy spirit that is in me get all over her you know? Literally...
Laying on of hands they do real well at our church as well, a couple mighty warriors over there.... the group intercession is real powerful stuff....
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If we go back to Matt.10:1, we find that the gift of healing was given to the disciples. In Mark 16:18 Jesus told the disciples that they would be able to lay hands on the sick and they would recover. In Acts 4:30 we see that healing is connected with "signs and wonders" just as it is in Mark 16:20 where it says that certain signs would be used to confirm the word since there wasn't any NT, the un-believing Jews needed a sign that what the apostles were saying about Jesus was the truth. Again in 1Cor.12:9 the gift of healing is mentioned. But why aren't the sign gifts mentioned in the list of gifts in Ephesians 4:8-16?
No I wasn't suggesting that serpents are related to demons. I was pointing out that handling serpents and not being harmed by drinking poison was also sign gifts given to the apostles along with healing. So are people to do those also?
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First, to terri, no, i am not catholic.
Next, i do know pastors can cast out demons and heal the sick. I dont know, or am not sure rather, what live4jesus meant by that.
Anyone, who is born of God, and believes, as stated in Mark 16:17 will have these signs. Including you, including me.
What i meant in Ezekiel 8-10 is the picture of the temple of God, where the holy of holies was located. The OT i know is not an age of grace and this is not what i am referring. We, are now the temple of God, where the Holy Spirit dwells. In Solomons temple(in Ezekiel) the presence of God dwelt. A type and shadow, as was many things in the OT so they could understand a true picture of Christ to come. As in Hebrews 9, the old tabernacle compared with the new. In John, .....the word was made flesh and DWELT among us. Dwelt there means..to tabernacle. The old covenant is a picture of the new.
So ok, in Ezekiel, God transports him (in spirit) from Babylon to Jeruselem to show him the defilement of His temple. The east gate had the seat of an image of jealousy, the north gate was its altar. It doesnt clearly say what the idol looked like, but we do know, as Paul even sais(1Cor.10:19-20) idol sacrifice is done to devils. They are present here by the brazen alter. Then on the walls, inside the temple, are the images of all thier idols drawn on them. Then we see the woman, just inside the north gate, weeping for Tammuz, a demon god. Then of course the worst abomination of all, between the porch and the altar, the worship of the sun. The sun god Osirus, the egyptian name of Nimrod, who is supposedly Tammuz incarnate.
Its a picture of the temple of God, in which was STILL Gods presence at the SAME time as these demons were being worshipped, and present. God tarried 100 years in the same house, His house with these demon worshippers bringing in thier own gods(devils,demons) before He finally withdrew His presence. Defilement of His temple took place and He REMAINED for a period of time.
Now the new testament. 1Cor.3:16-17, Paul telling us not to defile(theres the same word as Ezekiel) the temple of God, which temple we are. If we defile it, God will destroy it. If it WERENT possible to do that, to house Holy Spirit and an unclean spirit inside it, thereby defiling it, Paul would have no need to mention it, to CHRISTIANS. If we do, we will eventually be destroyed. If we continually practice a temple defiling sin, openning the door to demons, like say...consulting a psychic, or homosexuality, or drugs, that thing, that sin WILL destroy us, ie, aids, brain damage etc.
That is what i meant by Paul telling us to 'cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh AND spirit". And in 2Cor 6:14 he tells us...dont be unequally yoked, Christ and Belial have no fellowship And 'what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?" He tells the Christians at Corinth(obviously some already were) NOT to touch the unclean thing.
What i meant by Matt. saying, cleanse the lepers, heal the sick, cast out demons etc... is that Christians are those who should be healing, casting, raising. Are they doing this for the unsaved or saved? That is the question, or rather statement i was posing. It they are healing, and casting NONbelievers, then NONE of those things should be HAPENNING to Christians.
But i am saying, THEY CAN. If you exlude one, like having demons, and say.....oh that is for the unbelieving, then you cannot say in the same breath... but a believer CAN be sick. Does a virus live ON you? or IN you?
As for casting demons OFF that is not biblical. It sais: cast OUT demons. Then they live IN. Like the scripture Terri posted, when the unclean spirit goes OUT of a man, he returns to find the house empty, swept and in order. Empty and swept? That is INSIDE. Which is the point. Dont just empty your house, sweep it and put it in order, but KEEP sweeping and FILL it. You cant clean your apartment and just leave it, it WILL need sweeping every day. Or at least mine does.
The ministry i work in involves helping people out of the occult. Many of them come to Jesus FILLED with all manner of demons. Alot of which are rooted there from either childhood or generational curses and do not automatically leave when the person gives their lives and heart to the Lord. They have to clean, and sweep and FILL every area, which takes time. They are currently Christians, and no one can tell me they do not love the Lord with all their hearts. I see the tears, the anguish, the anger and all other manner of seeking to be totally free. And some are. Some, are still sweeping.
The armor of God was mentioned. And yes, that armour protects us. But read it carefully, it sais 'PUT ON the whole armor". Its an action WE take and must continue taking. IF we dont, IF we put that sword down, we have no way to fight. If we break an hedge, a serpent WILL bite.
EveOfGrace
Next, i do know pastors can cast out demons and heal the sick. I dont know, or am not sure rather, what live4jesus meant by that.
Anyone, who is born of God, and believes, as stated in Mark 16:17 will have these signs. Including you, including me.
What i meant in Ezekiel 8-10 is the picture of the temple of God, where the holy of holies was located. The OT i know is not an age of grace and this is not what i am referring. We, are now the temple of God, where the Holy Spirit dwells. In Solomons temple(in Ezekiel) the presence of God dwelt. A type and shadow, as was many things in the OT so they could understand a true picture of Christ to come. As in Hebrews 9, the old tabernacle compared with the new. In John, .....the word was made flesh and DWELT among us. Dwelt there means..to tabernacle. The old covenant is a picture of the new.
So ok, in Ezekiel, God transports him (in spirit) from Babylon to Jeruselem to show him the defilement of His temple. The east gate had the seat of an image of jealousy, the north gate was its altar. It doesnt clearly say what the idol looked like, but we do know, as Paul even sais(1Cor.10:19-20) idol sacrifice is done to devils. They are present here by the brazen alter. Then on the walls, inside the temple, are the images of all thier idols drawn on them. Then we see the woman, just inside the north gate, weeping for Tammuz, a demon god. Then of course the worst abomination of all, between the porch and the altar, the worship of the sun. The sun god Osirus, the egyptian name of Nimrod, who is supposedly Tammuz incarnate.
Its a picture of the temple of God, in which was STILL Gods presence at the SAME time as these demons were being worshipped, and present. God tarried 100 years in the same house, His house with these demon worshippers bringing in thier own gods(devils,demons) before He finally withdrew His presence. Defilement of His temple took place and He REMAINED for a period of time.
Now the new testament. 1Cor.3:16-17, Paul telling us not to defile(theres the same word as Ezekiel) the temple of God, which temple we are. If we defile it, God will destroy it. If it WERENT possible to do that, to house Holy Spirit and an unclean spirit inside it, thereby defiling it, Paul would have no need to mention it, to CHRISTIANS. If we do, we will eventually be destroyed. If we continually practice a temple defiling sin, openning the door to demons, like say...consulting a psychic, or homosexuality, or drugs, that thing, that sin WILL destroy us, ie, aids, brain damage etc.
That is what i meant by Paul telling us to 'cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh AND spirit". And in 2Cor 6:14 he tells us...dont be unequally yoked, Christ and Belial have no fellowship And 'what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?" He tells the Christians at Corinth(obviously some already were) NOT to touch the unclean thing.
What i meant by Matt. saying, cleanse the lepers, heal the sick, cast out demons etc... is that Christians are those who should be healing, casting, raising. Are they doing this for the unsaved or saved? That is the question, or rather statement i was posing. It they are healing, and casting NONbelievers, then NONE of those things should be HAPENNING to Christians.
But i am saying, THEY CAN. If you exlude one, like having demons, and say.....oh that is for the unbelieving, then you cannot say in the same breath... but a believer CAN be sick. Does a virus live ON you? or IN you?
As for casting demons OFF that is not biblical. It sais: cast OUT demons. Then they live IN. Like the scripture Terri posted, when the unclean spirit goes OUT of a man, he returns to find the house empty, swept and in order. Empty and swept? That is INSIDE. Which is the point. Dont just empty your house, sweep it and put it in order, but KEEP sweeping and FILL it. You cant clean your apartment and just leave it, it WILL need sweeping every day. Or at least mine does.
The ministry i work in involves helping people out of the occult. Many of them come to Jesus FILLED with all manner of demons. Alot of which are rooted there from either childhood or generational curses and do not automatically leave when the person gives their lives and heart to the Lord. They have to clean, and sweep and FILL every area, which takes time. They are currently Christians, and no one can tell me they do not love the Lord with all their hearts. I see the tears, the anguish, the anger and all other manner of seeking to be totally free. And some are. Some, are still sweeping.
The armor of God was mentioned. And yes, that armour protects us. But read it carefully, it sais 'PUT ON the whole armor". Its an action WE take and must continue taking. IF we dont, IF we put that sword down, we have no way to fight. If we break an hedge, a serpent WILL bite.
EveOfGrace
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I think we need to remember not to attribute every sin or base behavior to demon influence or posession. More often than not, the evil that people do is simply the reuslt of giving into the weakness in their old nature.
Jesus said:
Paul said:
Jesus said:
Paul said:
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- Jun 13, 2002
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I agree with most of what you said. And whether the demon is on or in, it can be cast out or away. Either way, it does not have a host anymore.
We had one lady in our church who came out of Budihism. She accepted the Lord and the joy of the Lord was all over her. Yet there were still many demons tormenting her and her sons.
Gradually, as those demons would manifest we cast them out. She is a walking testimony to the power of the Holy Spirit and the changes He brings when He enters.
People tend to freak out when you use the word possession. The church I first began to learn this in and the church I currently tend use demonized instead possession.
I believe, that when a person becomes filled with the Holy Spirit, he is possessed by the Holy Spirit. The demons are being kicked out but they are puttin' up a fight and are hanging on for as long as the person allows them to stay. This is most frequently done in ignorance and or fear and shame.
Churches need to do more teaching on this issue. It's not something to be ashamed of. The person needs deliverance and then needs to be taught how to stay delivered.
If one keeps going back to the things that brought the demons on in the first place they can expect that the demons will return, with more.
Quaffer
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I really find this hard to believe that a person can be filled with the dynamics of the Holy Spirit and still be demon filled.
Nope, that just doesn't sound right.
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- Jun 13, 2002
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Originally posted by 4Jesus
I really find this hard to believe that a person can be filled with the dynamics of the Holy Spirit and still be demon filled.
It did not sound right to me eigher, the first time I heard it. And that's exactly why I don't use the word possession. I don't believe the person is filled demons but yet there can still be demons hanging on and tormenting them.
The woman I told you about had very real manifestations of demons. After she had accepted Jesus as Lord. Their voices were coming out of her mouth. And we very really, cast them out, off, whatever . . .we made them leave. Then we instructed her on how to keep them gone, never to return.
Why do some still struggle so much with lust, and alcohol, and drugs, and etc. after they have asked Jesus into their hearts? There are demonic forces attached to these kinds of activities. They don't just leave of their own free will.
Out of ignorance, the person, not understanding what is going on thinks that they are just too weak to overcome. Then they give up and fall back into their old way of life. Yes, some of it is just the flesh rearing up and that needs to be brought under the subjection of Christ. But there is also a world of difference in the struggle if there are demons involved.
There is no need to fear for those who are living in righteousness. Those who need to fear are those who are living in rebellion to what Christ teaches and are doing what they want to do because they want to do it. Totally ignoring what God says.
When a person is filled with the dynamics of the Holy Spirit, he will NOT join himself to a prostitute, he will not go out and live a life of drunkeness, etc. If one continues to live this kind of lifestyle after accepting Jesus, we can assume he may be full of a spirit but it is not Holy.
Quaffer
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Quaffer,
Believers cannot fall prey to demon possession and that means that demons invade the body of the believer. You need to put some thought into the woman you are talking about and her spiritual condition. If demonic sounds were coming out of her mouth (and how do you know they were really demonic and not good acting on her part?), that contradicts what scripture says:
Demon possession is distinct from demon influence. In demonic influence which can affect both believers and un-believers, a person surrenders their thinking to false concepts and human viewpoints called "doctrines of demons" (1Tim.4:10.
Demonic influence can lead to posession. The Epistles are strangely silent about true posession. Contrary to what might be expected, the Greek verb for "cast out" is ekballo, not (exorkizo, from which we get the English noun "exorcist"). The verb exorkizo is never used in the NT to describe the removal of a demon. The noun exorkistes or "exorcist" and its congugate verb horkizo "to charge under oath, adjure, implore," are used of religious practitioners who attempted to expel demons by uttering mysterious incantations (Acts 10:13). Exorcism, therefore, is a pagan ritual devised to evict demons by means of religious oaths. Ekballo is used throughout the NT when Jesus or the diciples cast out demons. Jesus cast out demons; He never exorcised a demon.
Believing in Jesus is what liberates the un-believer from any demon who posesses them. The exorcism deliverance ministries that have sprung up are not in line with God's plan. The apparant success of those who engage in exorcism can be attributed either to the cooperation of satan, to demon involvement, or to a hoax.
Believers cannot fall prey to demon possession and that means that demons invade the body of the believer. You need to put some thought into the woman you are talking about and her spiritual condition. If demonic sounds were coming out of her mouth (and how do you know they were really demonic and not good acting on her part?), that contradicts what scripture says:
Can you seriously believe that God will reside in the same place with demons?
Demon possession is distinct from demon influence. In demonic influence which can affect both believers and un-believers, a person surrenders their thinking to false concepts and human viewpoints called "doctrines of demons" (1Tim.4:10.
Demonic influence can lead to posession. The Epistles are strangely silent about true posession. Contrary to what might be expected, the Greek verb for "cast out" is ekballo, not (exorkizo, from which we get the English noun "exorcist"). The verb exorkizo is never used in the NT to describe the removal of a demon. The noun exorkistes or "exorcist" and its congugate verb horkizo "to charge under oath, adjure, implore," are used of religious practitioners who attempted to expel demons by uttering mysterious incantations (Acts 10:13). Exorcism, therefore, is a pagan ritual devised to evict demons by means of religious oaths. Ekballo is used throughout the NT when Jesus or the diciples cast out demons. Jesus cast out demons; He never exorcised a demon.
Believing in Jesus is what liberates the un-believer from any demon who posesses them. The exorcism deliverance ministries that have sprung up are not in line with God's plan. The apparant success of those who engage in exorcism can be attributed either to the cooperation of satan, to demon involvement, or to a hoax.
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