Democrats Prove They Don't Really Care

[whatbogsends]

And which party has members who threaten half the American public?
PBS attorney fired after video shows him pushing for 're-education camps' for Trump voters

Yes, extremist democrats want to "re-educate" Trump voters.

Extremist Trump supporters, on the other hand, wanted tribunals and summary executions for democrats.

Sure, it's those evil democrats that are the problem.

 

[rambot]

Not sure what you're going on about here.
If a worker applies for a job that is advertised to pay $8 an hour, and then gets hired, why should the new employee start complaining about somehow being cheated?

Because the employee being cheated. Are you under the impression work places are NOT cheating their workers?

If someone isn't getting paid the wages they earn at the agreed upon, legal rate. why SHOULDn't workers complain?

 

[Ringo84]

Gotta love the contrast being drawn here:

A stimulus that brings direct relief to Americans who are suffering
Stimulus final vote in the House: Live updates

....versus endless whining over children's book and toys (Potato Head)*.
Ringo


* RDKirk: this isn't intended as a swipe at you at all. I understood and agreed with the point you were making upthread. This is a general statement.

 

[Aldebaran]

My question was relevant because (when answered truthfully) it refutes your prior claim. Your question is irrelevant.

If you can't answer it, I will understand and graciously let you off the hook from answering it.

 

[Aldebaran]

And if people don't want to die from cancer, they should just avoid getting cancer!

I honestly hate to insult a person's intelligence by explaining the obvious to them. But I see no alternative in this case.
A job is something a person applies for, knowing the pay and expectations.
A cancer is something a person gets, and never by choice.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes, extremist democrats want to "re-educate" Trump voters.

Extremist Trump supporters, on the other hand, wanted tribunals and summary executions for democrats.

Sure, it's those evil democrats that are the problem.

Thank you for those allegations without citations. It solidifies what I already believed.

 

[Aldebaran]

Because the employee being cheated. Are you under the impression work places are NOT cheating their workers?

If someone isn't getting paid the wages they earn at the agreed upon, legal rate. why SHOULDn't workers complain?

If they get paid $8 an hour for the job they applied for that was advertised at $8 an hour, then the employee is not being cheated.

 

[whatbogsends]

Thank you for those allegations without citations. It solidifies what I already believed.

You refusing to acknowledge things which are common knowledge solidifies what i already believed.

In addition to supporters on these forums (one of which, no longer appears to have an active account), several high-profile Trump supporters have said exactly what i had claimed.

While the club cited several reasons to oust Wood, the group appeared most offended by Wood’s call during the Jan. 6 Capitol riot for Trump supporters to “get the firing squads ready” and make sure “Pence goes first.”

Lin Wood Booted From Lawyers Club After Calling for Pence’s Execution (thedailybeast.com)

Powell, who had been working for the Trump legal team until recently, retweeted a call for military tribunals

Right-wing media figures call on Trump to use the military to overturn the election | Media Matters for America

Marjorie Taylor Greene indicated support for executing prominent Democrats in 2018 and 2019 before running for Congress - CNNPolitics

Of course, you have 1 guy who works at PBS saying something stupid, so you reached the conclusion that Democrats are evil and Republicans are the poor victims.

 

[rambot]

If they get paid $8 an hour for the job they applied for that was advertised at $8 an hour, then the employee is not being cheated.

Are you serious?
Why are you having trouble understanding?

1) The boss and the employee agree on a wage of 10$/hr
2) The boss does not pay the agreed upon rate for the time that is worked.
3) The employee complains.
4) The employee files a grievance.
5) The legislation is toothless and nothing happens.

 

[Aldebaran]

You refusing to acknowledge things which are common knowledge solidifies what i already believed.

In addition to supporters on these forums (one of which, no longer appears to have an active account), several high-profile Trump supporters have said exactly what i had claimed.

While the club cited several reasons to oust Wood, the group appeared most offended by Wood’s call during the Jan. 6 Capitol riot for Trump supporters to “get the firing squads ready” and make sure “Pence goes first.”

Lin Wood Booted From Lawyers Club After Calling for Pence’s Execution (thedailybeast.com)

Powell, who had been working for the Trump legal team until recently, retweeted a call for military tribunals

Right-wing media figures call on Trump to use the military to overturn the election | Media Matters for America

Marjorie Taylor Greene indicated support for executing prominent Democrats in 2018 and 2019 before running for Congress - CNNPolitics

Of course, you have 1 guy who works at PBS saying something stupid, so you reached the conclusion that Democrats are evil and Republicans are the poor victims.

Well, the 2 specific cases prove I'm wrong. It looks like Republicans are evil, and democrats are the poor victims. I'll set up a go-fund-me page for them.

 

[Aldebaran]

Are you serious?
Why are you having trouble understanding?

1) The boss and the employee agree on a wage of 10$/hr
2) The boss does not pay the agreed upon rate for the time that is worked.
3) The employee complains.
4) The employee files a grievance.
5) The legislation is toothless and nothing happens.

Weren't we discussing the subject of people not getting paid a "living wage" after agreeing to a minimum wage job?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Hoping to win the "we care about you" sweepstakes, Senate Republicans have responded with a plan to eliminate the estate tax on people worth $11.7 million or more.

With congressional Democrats poised to enact a $1.9-trillion stimulus and pandemic relief measure, Republicans have unveiled their own proposal to help “working Americans.”

We’re joking, of course. The GOP’s big idea, unveiled this week by Republican senators and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, is a repeal of the estate tax.

That’s a tax paid by 2,500 of America’s 153 million tax filers, all of whom are (or were) among the richest Americans.

To owe any tax at all, an estate has to be worth more than $11.7 million.

 

[Aldebaran]

Luckily, Senate Republicans have responded with a plan to eliminate the estate tax on people worth $11.7 million or more.

With congressional Democrats poised to enact a $1.9-trillion stimulus and pandemic relief measure, Republicans have unveiled their own proposal to help “working Americans.”

We’re joking, of course. The GOP’s big idea, unveiled this week by Republican senators and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, is a repeal of the estate tax.

That’s a tax paid by 2,500 of America’s 153 million tax filers, all of whom are (or were) among the richest Americans.

To owe any tax at all, an estate has to be worth more than $11.7 million.

If it only affects a small number of people, why do you care?

 

[rambot]

Weren't we discussing the subject of people not getting paid a "living wage" after agreeing to a minimum wage job?

It's been a slow shift:
1) You suggested that workers should respect their life enough to take a decent wage (forgetting the fact that SOMEONE has to work and that the employer has all the power)
2) I said employers should respect people enough to pay them a living wage.
3) You said employees should do the job for the agreed upon wage and conditions.
4) I agreed that employees SHOULD be receiving the agreed upon wages and condition (later adding the phrase "legal rate").
My (admittedly) unstated opinion was: Currently bosses and companies are willing to fulfil their end of the agreement; I'm not sure we can expect a living wage if they are unwilling to pay the minimum wage.

5) I ALSO said that employers need to hold up their end of the bargain because they are (as evidenced by that awful pretty chart) not doing so.

And that seems to be when the confusion started.

To clarify my position:
1) If someone agrees to a minimum wage job, well that's what they should get paid. An agreement is an agreement.
No argument there.
2) I would LIKE regional living wages to be instituted living wages as I feel these are fair and respectful to workers.
3) Bosses and companies are currently stealing BILLIONS from their workers (as per the chart). And that is problematic.

I am HOPING we can both agree on 1) and 3) even if we are miles apart on 2).

 

[essentialsaltes]

If it only affects a small number of people, why do you care?

Because I support a progressive tax code that calls on multimillionaires to pay more than the 99%.

 

[Aldebaran]

Because I support a progressive tax code that calls on multimillionaires to pay more than the 99%.

They already do. The majority don't pay anything at all.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's been a slow shift:
1) You suggested that workers should respect their life enough to take a decent wage (forgetting the fact that SOMEONE has to work and that the employer has all the power)
2) I said employers should respect people enough to pay them a living wage.
3) You said employees should do the job for the agreed upon wage and conditions.
4) I agreed that employees SHOULD be receiving the agreed upon wages and condition (later adding the phrase "legal rate").
My (admittedly) unstated opinion was: Currently bosses and companies are willing to fulfil their end of the agreement; I'm not sure we can expect a living wage if they are unwilling to pay the minimum wage.

5) I ALSO said that employers need to hold up their end of the bargain because they are (as evidenced by that awful pretty chart) not doing so.

And that seems to be when the confusion started.

To clarify my position:
1) If someone agrees to a minimum wage job, well that's what they should get paid. An agreement is an agreement.
No argument there.
2) I would LIKE regional living wages to be instituted living wages as I feel these are fair and respectful to workers.
3) Bosses and companies are currently stealing BILLIONS from their workers (as per the chart). And that is problematic.

I am HOPING we can both agree on 1) and 3) even if we are miles apart on 2).

Well, I agree fully with #1.

As for #2, it's the marketplace that determines how much a person gets paid for a certain job in a certain location. If an employer wants to pay too little, then the workers won't even apply there because other employers will pay more and the workers go there instead.

Finally #3, yes it's true that some employers don't let workers always have the amount of breaks they deserve. It's also true though that workers often do the same to employers by stealing company property, or overstay their breaks. The chart you showed was pretty general in regards to that sort of thing.

 

[rambot]

Well, I agree fully with #1.

As for #2, it's the marketplace that determines how much a person gets paid for a certain job in a certain location. If an employer wants to pay too little, then the workers won't even apply there because other employers will pay more and the workers go there instead.

We can say "it's the marketplace".
But we can ALSO say it's the boss who sets the wage.
The marketplace determines the cost of the goods and services. The bosses decided how the income from those goods and services gets allocated.
a) A lot of bosses are allocating A LOT of money for themselves and LITTLE money for their employees.
So really....it's the boss.

Finally #3, yes it's true that some employers don't let workers always have the amount of breaks they deserve. It's also true though that workers often do the same to employers by stealing company property, or overstay their breaks. The chart you showed was pretty general in regards to that sort of thing.

Pretty general? It's broken down the different types of wage fraud.


Out of curiousity I have 3 questions:
1) why do you think Americans aren't taking jobs in restaurants or as farm workers?

2) Would you be willing to pay twice as much for any/every single piece of produce if it was made by American workers being paid a living wage or do you prefer cheap vegetables by illegal foreign labour?

3) Would you be willing to pay 20% more for a restaurant experience if it meant the workers were getting paid a living wage; regardless of where they were from?

 

[Aldebaran]

We can say "it's the marketplace".
But we can ALSO say it's the boss who sets the wage.
The marketplace determines the cost of the goods and services. The bosses decided how the income from those goods and services gets allocated.
a) A lot of bosses are allocating A LOT of money for themselves and LITTLE money for their employees.
So really....it's the boss.

Pretty general? It's broken down the different types of wage fraud.


Out of curiousity I have 3 questions:
1) why do you think Americans aren't taking jobs in restaurants or as farm workers?

2) Would you be willing to pay twice as much for any/every single piece of produce if it was made by American workers being paid a living wage or do you prefer cheap vegetables by illegal foreign labour?

3) Would you be willing to pay 20% more for a restaurant experience if it meant the workers were getting paid a living wage; regardless of where they were from?

1--Restaurants can't even be open, let alone employ anyone. As for farm workers, I'm not familiar enough with that area to comment.

2--I'd prefer to pay what I am now while any American who chooses to work in that area for whatever the set wage is. There are people who would do it. One doesn't have to be here illegally to be willing to work.

3--No. But then again, I already don't go to restaurants because I think they're already too expensive.

 

[rambot]

1--Restaurants can't even be open, let alone employ anyone. As for farm workers, I'm not familiar enough with that area to comment.

2--I'd prefer to pay what I am now while any American who chooses to work in that area for whatever the set wage is. There are people who would do it. One doesn't have to be here illegally to be willing to work.

3--No. But then again, I already don't go to restaurants because I think they're already too expensive.

Thank you for answering them. Quick follow ups.

1. This is a historical question that has been pressing issue in both the restaurant industry AND farm workers for years at LEAST.

2. Ahhh. I see. You have too high of an opinion of your fellow Americans. And, for some reason, there seems to be a bit of a disconnect for you between what you pay and the cost of production.

The source for this information is: The farming industry for the last couple decades. Currently, crop hands are estimated to be 75% undocumented. Think about that.

Help me understand how this economy will work:
You are unwilling to give a farmer MORE money for their product BUT you want the farmer find AND pay American workers MORE money (than they would pay undocumented migrants).

How will the shortfall be made up by farmers?

Because let me tell you. The crack down on the dirty immigrants didn't ACTUALLY help Americans at all:
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/

Note, some of these crop hands are making almost 20$/hr and Ameircans STILL aren't really taking those jobs.

My personal opinion is:
1) We have become soft and lazy and we don't work physically hard enough.
2) A lot of people see those jobs as beneath them.

This was an interesting quote from the article to me....

Solorio is one of a growing number of agricultural businessmen who say they face an urgent shortage of workers. The flow of labor began drying up when President Obama tightened the border. Now President Trump is promising to deport more people, raid more companies and build a wall on the southern border.

Weird.
Cause I can't count how often I've heard that Obama's border was a leaky sieve.