Democrats - bold enough to get away with anything and everything without consequences.

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Well, yes and no but beside the point

The point is the conflict and the reason for the conflict is religion.

Yeh. Right. ...

Your opinion is noted.

Same same.

not having the capacity and not having the desire are not the same thing.

eh?

incentives.

Misses the point.

Your analogy was false. there was no point to miss.

 

[WordList]

The point is the conflict and the reason for the conflict is religion.

The immediate point we were talking about, however,...

Your opinion is noted.




not having the capacity and not having the desire are not the same thing.

In the case of the UN, they pretty much are. Or, at least, capacity doesn't exist without desire.

incentives.

Still don't know what your point was there.

Your analogy was false. there was no point to miss.

Hmmm.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

The immediate point we were talking about, however,...

In the case of the UN, they pretty much are. Or, at least, capacity doesn't exist without desire.

The desire denotes the willingness to use what you have the capacity to use. It's like a gun on the table in front of you. As long as it stays there you have the capacity to use it.

Still don't know what your point was there.

people who get involved in others affairs need incentives to do so.

Hmmm.

and this concludes my desire to continue our disagreement. If we haven't resolved this by now, I don't think we ever will and I don't want to take this any further than the appearance of the single word responses. the history of doing so has never been beneficial to anyone and I'd not like to explore it's possibility. You have a good day and take care.

 

[Rationalt]

inevitable, but not excusable. two wrongs have never, ever made one right.

Inexcusable as in israel not allowing their own citizens to be killed because of views of some internet activist ?.

 

[Rationalt]

That is the deliberate strategy of groups like Hamas. They fight their wars through the Western media, and stirring up emotions against Israel. There is nothing like dead children to stir up our emotions.
That is ironic enough, given the millions of our own we kill through abortion, but having their own die pleases the Hamas leadership very much, because it works.

There is a sucker born every minute applies here.

 

[MikeK]

Inexcusable as in israel not allowing their own citizens to be killed because of views of some internet activist ?.

Nobody is suggesting that Israel allow their citizens to be killed and stating as much is dishonest. This is a Christian board, let's be better.

 

[Rationalt]

Nobody is suggesting that Israel allow their citizens to be killed and stating as much is dishonest. This is a Christian board, let's be better.

But, You want the war against terrorists to be on your terms.The terms that will allow the hamas to fire rockets at will because destroying the rockets will destroy some civilians.

Don't they say everybody got an opinion ?.

 

[MikeK]

But, You want the war against terrorists to be on your terms.The terms that will allow the hamas to fire rockets at will because destroying the rockets will destroy some civilians.

That is false. Anyone who is involved in the making, distribution or firing of these rockets should be arrested (killed if they resist arrest) by Israel's superior military forces.

Don't they say everybody got an opinion ?.

My opinion is that the teaching of Christ's Church is correct and that we should encourage everyone to abide by His moral truths.

 

[SolomonVII]

The rockets by most accounts are made and distributed to the terrorists by Iran.

 

[SolomonVII]

It is not as if the use of Israel's superior military forces to keep such weapons from reaching Gaza had not come under severe criticism from the world's left already.

It is not just the rockets either.
The tunnels used to move the weapons and people require concrete.
So does every other kind of building.

Proportionate response must be assessed in terms of the measures needed to achieve the goal of victory over Hamas.
Hamas and the Islamists are the enemy here.

 

[MikeK]

The rockets by most accounts are made and distributed to the terrorists by Iran.

That is categorically false. The rockets that Hamas uses are primarily Qassam rockets which are produced in homes using very basic materials and construction techniques. These are not military-type rockets and do not require any specific technology to produce.

 

[MikeK]

Proportionate response must be assessed in terms of the measures needed to achieve the goal of victory over Hamas.
Hamas and the Islamists are the enemy here.

Proportional response demands that casualties inflicted are in rough proportion to the threat posed by the enemy. What you are advocating for is something quite distinct from the morality that Christ's Church calls us to.

 

[mark46]

http://conservativepost.com/video-d...th-he-and-obama-have-committed-treason-video/

Under the Obama-Iran nuclear “deal”, Iran, would be gifted access to over $100 billion (some reports run as high as $150 billion), money that Obama Secretary of State John Kerry admits very well could be used to fund terrorism that could kill American citizens.

The thread title says that Democrats will have no consequences for their actions in signing the Iran deal.

REALLY?

The Republican Party has opposed the deal. They have the opportunity to make Obama overturn their veto, and keep Iran in the news through the election cycle. Since Clinton has supported the agreement, the Republicans have an opportunity to make policy toward Iran and ISIS the major issue in the political campaign.

There certainly COULD be consequences. Obama has made it possible for the 2016 race to be all about issues of war and peace.
The people will decide which side is right. There certainly WILL be political consequences in Congress over the next months and in the election.

 

[SolomonVII]

Proportional response demands that casualties inflicted are in rough proportion to the threat posed by the enemy. What you are advocating for is something quite distinct from the morality that Christ's Church calls us to.

There you go again Mike, assuming that you are the only Christian in the room, and that anyone that does not see things from your point of view is not only disagreeing with you but disagreeing with CHRIST Himself.

 

[MikeK]

There you go again Mike, assuming that you are the only Christian in the room, and that anyone that does not see things from your point of view is not only disagreeing with you but disagreeing with CHRIST Himself.

You can cause me of whatever you like, my position is that of Christ's Church not because it is my favorite position politically but because I know His Church to have greater wisdom than I do and I submit to Her teachigs - not just on Just War, but on abortion and the death penalty and euthanasia and gun control and immigration and living wages and so on. Throw all the barbs you like if you feel so justified.

 

[SolomonVII]

You can cause me of whatever you like, my position is that of Christ's Church not because it is my favorite position politically but because I know His Church to have greater wisdom than I do and I submit to Her teachigs - not just on Just War, but on abortion and the death penalty and euthanasia and gun control and immigration and living wages and so on. Throw all the barbs you like if you feel so justified.

Stop feeling persecuted Mike.
The only barb that has been thrown is you saying that you advocate Christ's Church and people like myself are therefore disagreeing with Christ himself, and advocating a contrary morality to Christianity itself.
If that is not a barb against your fellow Christian, then nothing is.

None of us need be so self-righteous as to think that they are carrying God in our back pocket to flash as a red card in order to trump the political argument and thereby win the match for Christ like some Divine referee.

Catholic moral teaching is not like that, and Catholics do a big disservice to their own Church by becoming Heavenly dictators as to what the One, True Teaching of that Church is. Catholic moral teaching is there to inform our conscience, and our minds, as we apply them to the specifics of the current events of our own lives and our worlds. Morality has never been structured as a technical manual, but morality is always a struggle, a struggle against our own selves, our fellow human being and even God himself.

There is nothing in morality that would say that one child as collateral damage is proportionate given this or that particular situation, but seven is all out of proportion in that situation.
And combined with considering Just War theory, other mitigating factors as well that need to be considered, including what is involved in making victory in a war possible, or impossible, for to enter into a war where victory is not possible is against morality as well.

Church teaching is not a trump card to be used to self-righteously close down the discussion, but it is more like an intellectual prayer to be used by Catholics as they formulate their own positions and arguments and opinions as they bring them to the public square to be debated and put into practice through the governments that we in the West are all a part of.

 

[Rationalt]

That is false. Anyone who is involved in the making, distribution or firing of these rockets should be arrested (killed if they resist arrest) by Israel's superior military forces.

And it can be done says anonymous internet specialist on military strategies.

 

[MikeK]

Stop feeling persecuted Mike.

I don't feel persecuted. I suspect that you're doing the best you can, given your belief system which is drastically different than mine. We go to different sources to find the truth.

The only barb that has been thrown is you saying that you advocate Christ's Church and people like myself are therefore disagreeing with Christ himself, and advocating a contrary morality to Christianity itself.
If that is not a barb against your fellow Christian, then nothing is.

Correct. We are called to instruct the ignorant (not people who are ignorant in a derogitory way, but unaware of the teachings of Christ's Church) and to hold our brethren to high standards.

None of us need be so self-righteous as to think that they are carrying God in our back pocket to flash as a red card in order to trump the political argument and thereby win the match for Christ like some Divine referee.

God isn't in my pocket, I am in service and obedience to Him. What He teaches, through His Church, I will do my best to follow.

Catholic moral teaching is not like that, and Catholics do a big disservice to their own Church by becoming Heavenly dictators as to what the One, True Teaching of that Church is. Catholic moral teaching is there to inform our conscience, and our minds, as we apply them to the specifics of the current events of our own lives and our worlds. Morality has never been structured as a technical manual, but morality is always a struggle, a struggle against our own selves, our fellow human being and even God himself.

I don't have any idea what this paragraph is saying. The USCCB does not issue statements to hear itself talk.

There is nothing in morality that would say that one child as collateral damage is proportionate given this or that particular situation, but seven is all out of proportion in that situation.
And combined with considering Just War theory, other mitigating factors as well that need to be considered, including what is involved in making victory in a war possible, or impossible, for to enter into a war where victory is not possible is against morality as well.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here either. The Church says that responses to violence must be proportionate to the threat, but doesn't define exactly how proportionate the response has to be, is that your point?

Church teaching is not a trump card to be used to self-righteously close down the discussion, but it is more like an intellectual prayer to be used by Catholics as they formulate their own positions and arguments and opinions as they bring them to the public square to be debated and put into practice through the governments that we in the West are all a part of.

It isn't a self-righteous trump card, it is the Truth that we are called to aknowledge and abide by. Following Christ is not easy and is not supposed to be.

 

[MikeK]

And it can be done says anonymous internet specialist on military strategies.

It can be and it ocasionally is. The IDF is remarkably well-funded, equipped, and trained. Hamas is....none of those things. The IDF has world-class intelligence gathering, communications and control, armour, and troop movement capabilities. Hamas makes unguided rockets from $600 worth of junk in somebody's kitchen.

 

[SolomonVII]

I don't feel persecuted. I suspect that you're doing the best you can, given your belief system which is drastically different than mine. We go to differe sources to find the truth.

Okay then.
Stop using words that infer that you are being persecuted.