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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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FreeGrace2
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FreeGrace2
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Le'ts deal with the word "repent". I need to know how you understand the word before we can take the next step.
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FreeGrace2
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What verse teaches that imputation is not a one-time act?
I'll tell you what makes me very sick. Those who totally misrepresent what I post. As you have. I've NEVER promoted the idea of "go ahead and sin all you want". It is a LIE to make that claim about my view. So knock it off already.
All the warning passages are about what God will do to those believers (children of His) who are disobedient and unfaithful. They will not only lose blessings during their life on earth, they will lose eternal reward in heaven. Further, they are subject to God's heavy hand of discipline, as clearly indicated in Heb 12 and the word "scourging" in v.6. The Greek word refers to being skinned alive with a whip. Not fun.
So, those believers who are disobedient and unfaithful will not get away with anything. There will be great suffering for their behavior.
One example is found in 1 Cor 5. Paul turned over the incestuous man to Satan for the "destruction of the flesh". Does Satan know how to torture? Just ask Job about that!
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FreeGrace2
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The reason is because turning from sin is totally impossible. We continue to sin. Duh. And the Greek word actually DOES mean a change of mind.
So, let's see how this works. In order to place one's faith in Christ for salvation, one MUST change their mind about a lot of things.
For example,
1. they are a sinner and are headed for hell.
2. they cannot pay for their own sins.
3. Christ paid the sin debt for them on the cross.
4. Christ gives eternal life to those who believe in Him.
5. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. Acts 16:31
No one grows up knowing these things. They have to hear it and believe it. If they don't, they won't be saved.
Turning from sin is an on-going process that is required for believers to grow up in their salvation (1 Pet 2:2).
Turning from sin will save no one. Ever. That would be works, which is what the Pharisees thought. They were dead wrong. Which is why Jesus told them this:
‘Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” Jn 8:24
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FreeGrace2
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I proved your view is wrong by the FACT that Paul used the aorist tense (point in time) for salvation at least twice: Acts 16:31 and Rom 10:10. And Jesus used the present tense of "believed" yet added "for a while" to it.
Thus proving that salvation is a one-time event.
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FreeGrace2
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OK, I've give a list of the verses that base salvation on faith. Please show me your list.
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FreeGrace2
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Never knew them means Christ and them did never have any relationship, they had no part in Christ.
The Holy Spirit had never made them born again, so they never had the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Which all means they were never ever saved, the remained as they were as naturally born persons.
Which proves people do not lose eternal salvation. Only those who possess eternal life are born again supernaturally and have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit guiding, teaching and constraining and consoling them all the way to the end.
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So you do not believe in being born again as permanent,. Following your logic a man must be born again die born again again and again over and over due to some tiny sin.
Or you believe people are born again after physical death , so then not for this life.
However Paul says 2 Cor 5
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
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Nowhere in Galatians 4 is any mention of loosing salvation, on the contrary Paul affirms they are sons of God.
Galatians 4New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Fears for the Church
8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.
9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
Not a worry about losing salvation but about observing times and seasons. This is not them going back to the worship of false pagan gods, but the seasonal calendar that the world around them observed and followed centered around those pagan gods, like joining in pagan festivals and customs. We as Christians are not to celebrate paganism in any way even if such things are heavily ingrained in the society in which we live.
Today we have the Easter bunny, Halloween and Santa Claus which are purely pagan expressions of the culture we live in.
There is nothing wrong with Christian celebration of Easter, Thanksgiving day, or the birth of Christ at Christmas. Those are all Christian themes centered around God and Christ, and not pagan deities.
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