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[Leaf473]

No, not at all , not according to Scripture.
===============================================

Do you mean the Spirit shares different truths with different people?

Why the term "special truth" ?

If a person feels they have found a truth in the scriptures that no one else has found, are only a few people, that would be a special truth, I'm thinking.

Jesus says the Father Reveals the truth about salvation to little ones/infants/ and hides it from the educated scholars. (because this is His Good Pleasure so to DO).

They (the little ones) don't think it is any "special truth", just simply truth, always in line with all of Scripture and all of God's Plan and Purpose in Christ Jesus.

Definitely true!

 

[Leaf473]

Probably heading for bed soon, peace be with you all

 

[biblelesson]

Every believer who is convinced that they have received a special truth about the scriptures from God because it came with all the power and might of God and Jesus Christ actually has received a special truth, then?

You are looking backwards. Refocus on God. Its about what God actually gives. If there is doubt about what some people say, does that take away from God? No!

Romans 3:3-4 KJV

 

[Leaf473]

You are looking backwards. Refocus on God. Its about what God actually gives. If there is doubt about what some people say, does that take away from God? No!

Romans 3:3-4 KJV

That's right, it doesn't take away from what God gives.

Now, when two Christians are discussing something, and they have different views, and each believes that their view was given to them by God, what should they do?

 

[biblelesson]

That's right, it doesn't take away from what God gives.

Now, when two Christians are discussing something, and they have different views, and each believes that their view was given to them by God, what should they do?

Sounds like a word game!

God bless!

 

[Leaf473]

Sounds like a word game!

God bless!

It looks differently to me, but that's okay

God bless you, too!

 

[Leaf473]

Is this a rhetorical question ? Is the answer already "known" ?
And then , if the solution is contrary to what someone would rather believe, can the solution be accepted by them ?

No, not a rhetorical question. The two different people would "know" different answers.

Can something different be accepted by them, sure!

And God bless you, too!

 

[biblelesson]

No, not at all. (hopefully, hoping for honest, hoping for the best - love hopes for the best!)

Yes, love believes all things, 1 Corinthians 13:7 KJV

 

[biblelesson]

Taken as it stands, without clarifying, That's awkward if not downright 'wrong' on the internet - as so much of what is on the internet (over 90% at least) is in serious error, opposed to truth, and/ or for sales/ profit/ power/ control/ clickbate?

1 Corinthians 13:7 (KJV 1900)
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

I know what you are saying, but it’s God’s word, so what does it really mean considering there is serious error on the internet?

I see that verse relating to Charity which is what 1 Corinthians 13 is about, the Fruit of the Spirit.

 

[biblelesson]

Is there interest in the original meaning and original languages and where they lived what was actually meant VS what is written or said or meant in English ?

Not sure what you are asking. The Bible written then is for us today and future!

 

[HIM]

Is there interest in the original meaning and original languages and where they lived what was actually meant VS what is written or said or meant in English ?

I know the interest is more than it use to be. But it isn't as it should be.

 

[Leaf473]

Before I answer, would you mind saying what you think they should do ?
I will answer straightforward and directly what experience I have as God has Provided, as soon as I see your reply.
My answer is not acceptable to religious people, btw. (if that matters at all)

My answer is to prayerfully consider what the other Christian has to say.

This came to my mind,

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 1:3 - Common English Bible

Favored is the one who reads the words of this prophecy out loud, and favored are those who listen to it being read, and keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Yahweh never contradicts Himself, His Word, His Plan or His Purpose in Christ Jesus.
All that flows from Yahweh is in Perfect Harmony, with no spot nor wrinkle nor sin.
Thus,
as He revealed His Plan and His Word to those He Revealed His Plan and His Word to,
He did so, and He does so , Perfectly, without contradiction.

As written, that agrees with the test of a message or of a messenger - if it contradicts His Word, it is not accepted nor acceptable.

Definitely! I'm thinking of a situation where both people believe that the scriptures support what they say. This happens frequently.

And both people believe that the spirit has revealed the truth of the scriptures to them.

We could even use you and I as an example. I think we probably believe something different about what laws we are to keep today. The Bible is a big book and says a lot of different things. So maybe you're looking at a passage that says God's Commandments are forever and I'm looking at a passage that says the entire law is fulfilled.

What now? I'm convinced that the spirit has led me to my view, and I'm pretty sure you think the same.

One option is we could each think the other is just not as sincere as we are in following God... that they are listening to the world's voices and so on. Would that be a good option?

 

[guevaraj]

the entire law is fulfilled.

Brother, why would you think Jesus has removed the law by fulfilling it when that is not our everyday experience? If I "fulfilled" to stop at a red light having the law fully obeyed, does that mean that those who come after me no longer have to stop at the red light or has my obedience "uphold" the law for all to follow? Jesus stands between us and the law of God because He made us, He is the creator whom Adam saw when he opened his eyes for the first time. If I build something that kills someone, the authorities will accuse me of having killed through what I built. The actions of what I build are seen as my actions because I made what I built. This is how Jesus can take our place and, having taken upon himself our punishment, we have another chance at obeying God's law. His death does not eliminate the law, it "upholds" it, meaning we all need to follow His example of obeying it. Jesus, having made us, also knows that changing us takes time and He lives forever to complete the work He begins in us until all sin is removed from our character through the practice of obedience to mastery made possible through His many forgivenesses as our High Priest.

After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith (trust + works), whether they are Jews or Gentiles. Well then, if we emphasize faith (trust + works), does this mean that we can forget about the law (works)? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith (trust + works) do we truly fulfill/uphold (establish it to be followed) the law. (Romans 3:29-31 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

What we need to understand is that "faith" includes doing God's given works of "righteousness" and is not "belief" alone.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith/belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by faith/belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, why would you think Jesus has removed the law by fulfilling it when that is not our everyday experience?

I don't think that, I don't think he removed the law

If I "fulfilled" to stop at a red light having the law fully obeyed, does that mean that those who come after me no longer have to stop at the red light or has my obedience "uphold" the law for all to follow?

Two different meanings to the word "fulfilled":

One is how you are using it, to keep stopping at the stop sign.

The other is to fulfill a loan. Once the payments are made, you don't keep paying on it, it is fulfilled.

Peace be with you, my brother
Good to hear from you!

Jesus stands between us and the law of God because He made us, He is the creator whom Adam saw when he opened his eyes for the first time. If I build something that kills someone, the authorities will accuse me of having killed through what I built. The actions of what I build are seen as my actions because I made what I built. This is how Jesus can take our place and, having taken upon himself our punishment, we have another chance at obeying God's law. His death does not eliminate the law, it "upholds" it, meaning we all need to follow His example of obeying it. Jesus, having made us, also knows that changing us takes time and He lives forever to complete the work He begins in us until all sin is removed from our character through the practice of obedience to mastery made possible through His many forgivenesses as our High Priest.

After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith (trust + works), whether they are Jews or Gentiles. Well then, if we emphasize faith (trust + works), does this mean that we can forget about the law (works)? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith (trust + works) do we truly fulfill/uphold (establish it to be followed) the law. (Romans 3:29-31 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

What we need to understand is that "faith" includes doing God's given works of "righteousness" and is not "belief" alone.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith/belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by faith/belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[biblelesson]

Definitely! I'm thinking of a situation where both people believe that the scriptures support what they say. This happens frequently.

And both people believe that the spirit has revealed the truth of the scriptures to them.

We could even use you and I as an example. I think we probably believe something different about what laws we are to keep today. The Bible is a big book and says a lot of different things. So maybe you're looking at a passage that says God's Commandments are forever and I'm looking at a passage that says the entire law is fulfilled.

What now? I'm convinced that the spirit has led me to my view, and I'm pretty sure you think the same.

One option is we could each think the other is just not as sincere as we are in following God... that they are listening to the world's voices and so on. Would that be a good option?

How can you base the truth of the word of God on the different understanding people have? Your post indicates you have abdicated your responsibility as a servant, watchman, and disciples of Christ.

There is nothing wrong with your mind and how you are able to read for yourself - we all learned to read and are able to process information. But the twisting of the scripture is taking place everyday, and those who are guilty of this have evil motives for doing so, which will be to their demise, 2 Peter 3:16 KJV.

Now if there is a situation where two people or more are saying different things relating to the Bible, what remains true? God and His word remains true, Romans 3:4 KJV. But you are not looking at God, you are making people’s opinions greater than God.

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV. God’s word does not say different things. We are not suppose to consider what another believe over what the Bible tells us. Your understanding does not come from people, it comes from the Spirit of God.

What you are addressing is something the Bible warns us against and will land us in the lake of fire. Jesus said let the wheat grow with the tares and He will separate them in the end, Matthew 13:24-30 KJV

Look there is the walking dead we are around everyday whose lot is the lake of fire, and their minds are so seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV, till there is nothing that can save them. These are the people who are speaking contrary to what the Bible is saying and do so arrogantly. Why consider what they say about the word over what God Has said. These people cannot save you - and to give them special attention for consideration of what’s true, you have sealed your fate, because this very practice is putting people over God.

Who cares what people think!!! Either you think this is a game, or you really want to know! I’m starting to think you are just playing a game.

This is what Jesus said, Luke 14:26-27 KJV, 26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” 27 “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

Now who are you going to listen to, or whose word will you consider, or whose understanding should you go with, or what will you do when faced with someone saying something different? Jesus is saying any consideration to another (saying something different) means you cannot be His disciple.

There are those that’s steering you to listen to God. You have knees. You have a mouth. You know how to ask. You are not prevented from calling on the Holy Spirit. Another human being is in the same position you are in. Either they are the walking dead or they are saved. So what’s your guarantee? Surely not people!

Jesus said my sheep hear my voice, John 10:27 KJV, not the voice of other people.

God bless! I’m done!

 

[daq]

Brother, why would you think Jesus has removed the law by fulfilling it when that is not our everyday experience? If I "fulfilled" to stop at a red light having the law fully obeyed, does that mean that those who come after me no longer have to stop at the red light or has my obedience "uphold" the law for all to follow?

I understand your point and agree: but if the discussion is about the typical antinomian-biased renderings of Matthew 5:17, (fulfil or fulfill, which it usually is when it comes to this word), then it is not fulfill but rather fill-full.

G4137 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
G4137 πληρόω pleroo (plee-ro'-ō) v.
1. to fully, completely fill.
2. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow).
3. (figuratively) to fully supply, satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.
[from G4134]

Is pleroo meant figuratively in Matthew 5:17? (No).

There is a huge difference between fulfilling the Torah and filling it up to the full. When one looks closely at what then transpires in the remainder of the Matthew 5 passage, it is extremely clear what the Meshiah proceeds to do: he begins filling up the Torah by expounding the correct understandings of the commandments that are mentioned in what follows in the passage. Moreover it surely has to do with interpretation because he commences in Matthew 5:21, saying, You have heard that it was said by those of old time, and continues with similar expressions down through the passage. This is a debate over interpretation and he is correcting some of the incorrect traditions of the Elders, (those of old time), and Pharisaic teachings about the commandments in the Torah.

Does he fulfill the Torah? Yes, of course he does, but is that what he says he came to do in Matthew 5:17, in light of the actual meaning of pleroo and what follows in the passage? The overall context reveals that fill-to-the-full is what is meant.

 

[Leaf473]

How can you base the truth of the word of God on the different understanding people have? Your post indicates you have abdicated your responsibility as a servant, watchman, and disciples of Christ.

There is nothing wrong with your mind and how you are able to read for yourself - we all learned to read and are able to process information. But the twisting of the scripture is taking place everyday, and those who are guilty of this have evil motives for doing so, which will be to their demise, 2 Peter 3:16 KJV.

Now if there is a situation where two people or more are saying different things relating to the Bible, what remains true? God and His word remains true, Romans 3:4 KJV. But you are not looking at God, you are making people’s opinions greater than God.

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV. God’s word does not say different things. We are not suppose to consider what another believe over what the Bible tells us. Your understanding does not come from people, it comes from the Spirit of God.

What you are addressing is something the Bible warns us against and will land us in the lake of fire. Jesus said let the wheat grow with the tares and He will separate them in the end, Matthew 13:24-30 KJV

Look there is the walking dead we are around everyday whose lot is the lake of fire, and their minds are so seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV, till there is nothing that can save them.

Shall I consider everyone who disagrees with me to be the walking dead?

These are the people who are speaking contrary to what the Bible is saying and do so arrogantly. Why consider what they say about the word over what God Has said. These people cannot save you - and to give them special attention for consideration of what’s true, you have sealed your fate, because this very practice is putting people over God.

Who cares what people think!!!

This is a discussion forum. If you don't care what other people think, what are you doing here?

It's an honest question. I'm not saying you should leave, I'm just asking what your motivations are for being here

Either you think this is a game, or you really want to know! I’m starting to think you are just playing a game.

This is what Jesus said, Luke 14:26-27 KJV, 26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” 27 “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

Now who are you going to listen to, or whose word will you consider, or whose understanding should you go with, or what will you do when faced with someone saying something different? Jesus is saying any consideration to another (saying something different) means you cannot be His disciple.

There are those that’s steering you to listen to God. You have knees. You have a mouth. You know how to ask. You are not prevented from calling on the Holy Spirit. Another human being is in the same position you are in. Either they are the walking dead or they are saved. So what’s your guarantee? Surely not people!

Jesus said my sheep hear my voice, John 10:27 KJV, not the voice of other people.

God bless! I’m done!

Peace be with you, my sister!

 

[daq]

How can you base the truth of the word of God on the different understanding people have? Your post indicates you have abdicated your responsibility as a servant, watchman, and disciples of Christ.

There is nothing wrong with your mind and how you are able to read for yourself - we all learned to read and are able to process information. But the twisting of the scripture is taking place everyday, and those who are guilty of this have evil motives for doing so, which will be to their demise, 2 Peter 3:16 KJV.

Now if there is a situation where two people or more are saying different things relating to the Bible, what remains true? God and His word remains true, Romans 3:4 KJV. But you are not looking at God, you are making people’s opinions greater than God.

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV. God’s word does not say different things. We are not suppose to consider what another believe over what the Bible tells us. Your understanding does not come from people, it comes from the Spirit of God.

What you are addressing is something the Bible warns us against and will land us in the lake of fire. Jesus said let the wheat grow with the tares and He will separate them in the end, Matthew 13:24-30 KJV

Look there is the walking dead we are around everyday whose lot is the lake of fire, and their minds are so seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV, till there is nothing that can save them. These are the people who are speaking contrary to what the Bible is saying and do so arrogantly. Why consider what they say about the word over what God Has said. These people cannot save you - and to give them special attention for consideration of what’s true, you have sealed your fate, because this very practice is putting people over God.

Who cares what people think!!! Either you think this is a game, or you really want to know! I’m starting to think you are just playing a game.

This is what Jesus said, Luke 14:26-27 KJV, 26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” 27 “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

Now who are you going to listen to, or whose word will you consider, or whose understanding should you go with, or what will you do when faced with someone saying something different? Jesus is saying any consideration to another (saying something different) means you cannot be His disciple.

There are those that’s steering you to listen to God. You have knees. You have a mouth. You know how to ask. You are not prevented from calling on the Holy Spirit. Another human being is in the same position you are in. Either they are the walking dead or they are saved. So what’s your guarantee? Surely not people!

Jesus said my sheep hear my voice, John 10:27 KJV, not the voice of other people.

God bless! I’m done!

In this portion:

"Look there is the walking dead we are around everyday whose lot is the lake of fire, and their minds are so seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV, till there is nothing that can save them. These are the people who are speaking contrary to what the Bible is saying and do so arrogantly. Why consider what they say about the word over what God Has said. These people cannot save you - and to give them special attention for consideration of what’s true, you have sealed your fate, because this very practice is putting people over God.

Who cares what people think!!! Either you think this is a game, or you really want to know! I’m starting to think you are just playing a game.

This is what Jesus said, Luke 14:26-27 KJV, 26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” 27 “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

Now who are you going to listen to, or whose word will you consider, or whose understanding should you go with, or what will you do when faced with someone saying something different? Jesus is saying any consideration to another (saying something different) means you cannot be His disciple."

.......you are using the statement from Luke 14:26-27 as if it speaks of human beings and physical family members, even your father and your mother, which we are commanded to honor in the Ten, and which both the Master himself and Paul uphold and teach. That is an error in understanding. Even Paul says we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

It is necessary to understand by way of other statements and teachings in the Testimony of the Master, in the Gospel accounts, exactly who and what are your father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, in the context of the passage you quoted. There are also spiritual meanings to all these things.

Before you entered into the faith, while you were formerly serving the prince of the power of the air and spirit of the world, you had your father the devil, your mother of harlots, your son of perdition, your daughter of Babylon, and so on, and so on. These evils need to be cut off: not your literal physical family members, (or other forum members who are also believers but disagree with your paradigm).

 

[biblelesson]

......you are using the statement from Luke 14:26-27 as if it speaks of human beings and physical family members, even your father and your mother, which we are commanded to honor in the Ten, and which both the Master himself and Paul uphold and teach. That is an error in understanding. Even Paul says we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

I have not made an error. I understand the scripture. Jesus is saying your mother, father, sister, brother can lead you away from Him. This is being done every day in all cultures. The Bible tells us to honor our mother and father, so when Jesus say you must hate your mother and father, He is not telling us to hate with extreme anger or dislike; disgust or contempt. Jesus is saying turn away from the love of family that keeps people bound to the point of rejecting Him.

t is necessary to understand by way of other statements and teachings in the Testimony of the Master, in the Gospel accounts, exactly who and what are your father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, in the context of the passage you quoted. There are also spiritual meanings to all these things.

Before you entered into the faith, while you were formerly serving the prince of the power of the air and spirit of the world, you had your father the devil, your mother of harlots, your son of perdition, your daughter of Babylon, and so on, and so on. These evils need to be cut off: not your literal physical family members, (or other forum members who are also believers but disagree with your paradigm).

What scripture are you referring to? Because Luke 14:26-27 KJV is speaking of family influence. Father in the verse is not relating to the devil, nor is mother relating to mother of harlots.

Before coming to Christ, we all were lost in the world, Ephesians 2:2-3 KJV. Paul is saying we were all children of wrath. So while under the influence of the world, what would be the reason for Jesus command?

Jesus’s command relates to our coming to Christ and the strong persuasion not to follow Him. This is where Ephesians 6:12 KJV comes in, “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

In consideration of family: There is spiritual wickedness, principalities in high places, and rulers of darkness behind those who oppose Jesus. It’s the spirit of anti-Christ. We must look past our loved ones; look past flesh and blood, and understand they are being influenced. But some are not able to see this. I know of situations where new believers suffered from extreme guilt because their family members disapproved of their becoming a Christian. They were afraid of being rejected. This is what Jesus is speaking of. Love them not to the point of rejecting Him.