Defining sola scriptura.

[Albion]

Albion, the Holy Bible does not explain ALL about Jesus and His Christian Faith, as per Bible.

Of course it doesn't. But it informs us that what it has given us is all that we need.

Therefore, it's not correct to say the Bible calls itself "incomplete." And it's not correct to call the Bible "incorrect" even if you do not attribute it to the Bible.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

The Holy Bible tells us that it is incomplete, so, sola Scriptura is incomplete.

Totally off topic, but I'll bite: Please quote the verse that states, "The Holy Bible is Incomplete" - I'd especially like to see the specific quote that indicates the Bible is MISSING specific dogmas we are mandated to believe, please quote such verse(s) verbatim.



Of course, the embraced RULE is only one part of norming - a point that Protestants have brought up over and over and over, for years - ALWAYS ignored by Catholics and Mormons (and mentioned again in Post # 11). But just because it's only one part does not mean that part is "wrong, terrible, unbiblical, satanic, new, divisive" and all the other things Catholics insist it is - while equally insisting they don't know what "it" is that they insist is all those things.

Look... we ALL KNOW that Catholics must protest this practice.... and we ALL KNOW why (interesting, no one Catholic has disagreed with that part of post #11 - not in the nearly 10 years that I've been sharing that). But it's silly to say you don't know what it is - only that whatever it is, it's just gotta be BAD, HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE, Divisive, unbiblical, new, something Lutherans invented but don't have a clue what it is they invented. And it's silly to say there are other things involved in norming when no one disagrees with that. And just MADDENING to have the constant, persistent, endless diversions, evasions, hijacking - the "shell game" as it is sometimes called in debate. WE KNOW you MUST protest this practice.... and we ALL KNOW WHY..... but come on, all these absurd games and evasions and denials - it's just nuts. It gets even crazier as Catholics ridicule their own denomination in an attempt to mock their own invented strawman here....






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[barryatlake]

Albion, the bible tells us that it does not contain all that Jesus revealed to His Apostles. So, how do you know that the Bible Alone/ sola Scriptura contains all that is needed for salvation ? The Bible does tell us that " ye MIGHT have life through his name". Nowhere does the Bible tell us that somebody was saved by the "Bible Alone Method" invented hundreds of years after the fact that Jesus tells us that the Church has the final authority on matters of faith and morals.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

The Holy Bible tells us that it is incomplete

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Totally off topic, but I'll bite: Please quote the verse that states, "The Holy Bible is Incomplete" - I'd especially like to see the specific quote that indicates the Bible is MISSING specific dogmas we are mandated to believe, please quote such verse(s) verbatim.



Of course, the embraced RULE is only one part of norming - a point that Protestants have brought up over and over and over, for years - ALWAYS ignored by Catholics and Mormons (and mentioned again in Post # 11). But just because it's only one part does not mean that part is "wrong, terrible, unbiblical, satanic, new, divisive" and all the other things Catholics insist it is - while equally insisting they don't know what "it" is that they insist is all those things.

Look... we ALL KNOW that Catholics must protest this practice.... and we ALL KNOW why (interesting, no one Catholic has disagreed with that part of post #11 - not in the nearly 10 years that I've been sharing that). But it's silly to say you don't know what it is - only that whatever it is, it's just gotta be BAD, HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE, Divisive, unbiblical, new, something Lutherans invented but don't have a clue what it is they invented. And it's silly to say there are other things involved in norming when no one disagrees with that. And just MADDENING to have the constant, persistent, endless diversions, evasions, hijacking - the "shell game" as it is sometimes called in debate. WE KNOW you MUST protest this practice.... and we ALL KNOW WHY..... but come on, all these absurd games and evasions and denials - it's just nuts. It gets even crazier as Catholics ridicule their own denomination in an attempt to mock their own invented strawman here....



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the bible tells us that it does not contain all that Jesus revealed to His Apostles.

You completely CHANGED your claim....

But I'll bite again, please quote the verse that states, "The Holy Bible is incomplete in all Jesus revealed to His Apostles." Be sure to reference the specific verse with those words.


But again, yup - it's COMPLETELY off topic and has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of this thread. I just can't resist..... maybe the Catholic Bible is a whole lot more UNIQUE than anyone realized!

Nowhere does the Bible tell us that somebody was saved by the "Bible Alone Method"

See the definition in post #11. For us all, please embolden and underline these specific verbatim words in the 17 of the definition, "Somebody is saved by the Bible Alone Method."






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[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by barryatlake

The Holy Bible tells us that it is incomplete, so, sola Scriptura is incomplete.
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Totally off topic, but I'll bite: Please quote the verse that states, "The Holy Bible is Incomplete" -
I'd especially like to see the specific quote that indicates the Bible is MISSING specific dogmas we are mandated to believe, please quote such verse(s) verbatim............................

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I have heard the RCs use this passage in John 21 for that......

John 21:
24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.



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[barryatlake]

John 29: 30 KJV and on the Authority of the Church [ not the Holy Bible alone ] Matt.18:15-18

"The Holy Bible is incomplete in all Jesus revealed to His Apostles." Be sure to reference the specific verse with those words.
It is explained in verse John 20: 30 - KJV

 

[Albion]

I have heard the RCs use this passage in John 21 for that......

John 21:
24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.

You're right that some of them do indeed do that. BUT the verses say the exact opposite of what they are contending. It's like that other fave--the church (meaning their own denomination) as pillar and ground of truth (1 Tim 3.15)--when the verse actually says it's the people of God who are being counted on, not some institution,and certainly not that it's supposed to be infallible!

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

The Holy Bible tells us that it is incomplete.
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Totally off topic, but I'll bite: Please quote the verse that states, "The Holy Bible is Incomplete" -

I'd especially like to see the specific quote that indicates the Bible is MISSING specific dogmas we are mandated to believe, please quote such verse(s) verbatim............................

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John 29: 30 KJV

No such verse exists.


Just quote the following words (it would be helpful if you would please embolden and underline the words so that none misses them, "The Holy Bible is incomplete" and "The Holy Bible is missing essential dogmas all must believe"

Make sure it's a verse that actually exists rather than a phantom, please.

Matt.18:15-18

Ah, these verses actually exist!!!

Now, just quote them then (if you would please) embolden and underline the words "The Holy Bible is incomplete" and "The Holy Bible is missing essential dogmas all must believe."



Then maybe we can return to the topic of this thread?






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[barryatlake]

John 20:30 tells us not all is written down that Jesus taught His apostles KJV, also you misquoted Matt.18:15-18.

Why can't you answer the question asked by MoreCoffee ? Defining sola scriptura.


How does your denomination define its doctrine of scripture and does it have a specific section or sections that tell you that scripture alone is the only infallible rule of faith by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest is the Holy Spirit speaking in the holy scriptures?

If so can you quote from the official doctrinal standard, show what passages of holy scripture are used to support its declaration on this subject, and explain its meaning in your own words, please?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Why not the magic 8-ball instead? It's easier to use and gives out with fewer conflicting replies.

You go with the 8-ball. I'll trust the Holy Spirit. Thanks for the offer, though.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

That would be the view of most Christians. But we do know that certain denominations, including the Mormons, Roman Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, and some others that are very well-known, do think that theirs is the only one that God cares about.

That's considered so eccentric and, frankly, absurd by members of the thousands of other denominations that it usually just rolls off their backs when it's said to them, and they don't even bother to consider it an insult, even though it is intended as such.

Why though? So they can pretend that they are the only people that the LORD does care about?

I just don't get the thinking here.

 

[Albion]

John 20:30 tells us not all is written down that Jesus taught His apostles

Very true, but that is not the same as saying that what's there is incomplete, especially when the very next verse continues that thought by saying that what IS there is all that we need.

How does your denomination define its doctrine of scripture and does it have a specific section or sections that tell you that scripture alone is the only infallible rule of faith by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest is the Holy Spirit speaking in the holy scriptures?

The church does indeed have a specific commitment to the principle we've been discussing--that Scripture contains all that is necessary to salvation, is the ultimate authority for doctrine, and that nothing should be demanded of the people that is not required by Scripture.

If so can you quote from the official doctrinal standard, show what passages of holy scripture are used to support its declaration on this subject, and explain its meaning in your own words, please?

Yes, I can do all of that. However, you can easily do so yourself if you are interested, and if you run into any problems when you do that, I'll be happy to try to help you with them.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Denominations are an abiblical concept. I'm surprised a sola scripturist would even use the word.

It's a good word to use when trying to talk a little sense into anyone who might think that the body of Christ is actually exclusive to their own denomination.

 

[Albion]

Why though? So they can pretend that they are the only people that the LORD does care about?

I just don't get the thinking here.

Some people need the reassurance that they have signed on to something bigger than themselves that has all the answers and cannot be second-guessed. It absolves them of intellectual struggle. You'll notice posts that do not actually elaborate on anything or answer any question directly but, rather, just state their church's position as though that's explaining anything to the reader.

These people are often insecure when dealing with issues and ideas that are not black and white. Alas, much in life is NOT black and white, not even when it comes to religion.

Then too, some people like to feel pride of ownership, that "my team is better than your team." Racial superiority, ethnic snobbery, old beats young or young is better than old, etc. are all versions of this very human failing. They're doing the same thing with religion, except trying to justify it by a misuse of the Bible or, in some cases, something that is said by them to be better than the Bible--and only used by their variety of religion, of course.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Proof of such doctrine?

Just ask one of your priests, right?

 

[lesliedellow]

It is not a denominational statement, but it will do:

"The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men." (Westminster Confession of Faith)

Having somebody like the Pope giving an "authoritative" interpretation of scripture is that it is like having a defendant as judge in his own trial, and giving his own "authoritative" interpretation of the Theft Act (before acquitting himself).

 

[ThatTrueLight]

While I might agree with your statement, I don't know where it is in Scripture. It's a doctrine, though.

You might not want to agree with me, I just read the holy scriptures and believe what they say.

That's a problem with Protestants...they can't imagine a lot of things.

Especially things like men thinking that the body of Christ is the RCC.

Yes, we know everything that's essential. WE WIN.

Which is what, making sure that you all believe that you're passing the King of kings through your bodies?

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Some people need the reassurance that they have signed on to something bigger than themselves that has all the answers and cannot be second-guessed. It absolves them of intellectual struggle. You'll notice posts that do not actually elaborate on anything or answer any question directly but, rather, just state their church's position as though that's explaining anything to the reader.

These people are often insecure when dealing with issues and ideas that are not black and white. Alas, much in life is NOT black and white, not even when it comes to religion.

Then too, some people like to feel pride of ownership, that "my team is better than your team." Racial superiority, ethnic snobbery, old beats young or young is better than old, etc. are all versions of this very human failing. They're doing the same thing with religion, except trying to justify it by a misuse of the Bible or, in some cases, something that is said by them to be better than the Bible--and only used by their variety of religion, of course.

I appreciate your thoughts here, trying to understand this.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

The Holy Bible tells us that it is incomplete.


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Totally off topic, but I'll bite: Please quote the verse that states, "The Holy Bible is Incomplete" -

I'd especially like to see the specific quote that indicates the Bible is MISSING specific dogmas we are mandated to believe, please quote such verse(s) verbatim............................



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John 29: 30 KJV
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No such verse exists.


Just quote the following words (it would be helpful if you would please embolden and underline the words so that none misses them, "The Holy Bible is incomplete" and "The Holy Bible is missing essential dogmas all must believe"

Make sure it's a verse that actually exists rather than a phantom, please.




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John 20:30 tells us not all is written down that Jesus taught His apostles

No. Wrong.


Quote the verse and then please underline and embolden the words: "The Holy Bible is incomplete" and "The Holy Bible is missing essential dogmas all must believe." Just quote the verse and highlight those words.

KJV, also you misquoted Matt.18:15-18

You didn't quote it at all. But please do, then underline and embolden these words in it, "The Holy Bible is incomplete" and "The Holy Bible is missing essential dogma all must believe." "The Holy Bible is missing all the dogmas Jesus told to the Apostles."

See post 524

Why can't you answer the question asked by MoreCoffee ? Defining sola scriptura

Read post # 11.






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[barryatlake]

Albion, in reference to your post # 532 ; no verse tells us that the Bible alone is all that is necessary for salvation.

The True Light you wrote: "It's a good word to use when trying to talk a little sense into anyone who might think that the body of Christ is actually exclusive to their own denomination. "

Your denomination was certainly not in existence when Jesus made this verse of Matt.18; 15-18.
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