Discussion Defending self and others.

[Frogster]

yes .. and David displayed to us that we must trust in him regardless ..for though he had power a number of times to kill saul who was tryng to murder him (it would have been justifiable ) he did not, but trusted in the Lord to bring about HIS will in HIS time .
And job also who said .. though he slay me ,yet will i praise Him "

there is no course of action that can trump FAith in God .

but David also had weapons, and killed thousands, in "trust".

 

[Alithis]

Why is it rhetorical? It is not. Should Christians trust that God will not allow "scenarios" to come, called theft, fire, accidents, bad weather, and not insure their cars or homes?

You say the scenarios of not needing a gun can apply, so why insure the car or home against devastating scenarios that come?

then neither will my question be rhetorical -

Should christians trust in the lord with All their heart and lean not on their own understanding, should they acknowledge the lord in all their ways that he may direct their paths ??
to whom does our life belong if we are redeemed by the blood of the lamb ? it is the lords .

 

[Frogster]

then neither will my question be rhetorical -

Should christians trust in the lord with All their heart and lean not on their own understanding, should they acknowledge the lord in all their ways that he may direct their paths ??
to whom does our life belong if we are redeemed by the blood of the lamb ? it is the lords .

well yes,. but should they insure their homes and cars, in case of bad scenarios that can, do, and have happened to people who trust in the Lord??

 

[CGL1023]

You are walking in your home and in the living room a man is physically attacking a family member.

What would you do?

I am coming in long after this discussion started; my answer would have been similar to Alithis' post #4. I shall elaborate a little; we do depend on Jesus and the power of His Name, the angels that we, as believers, are able to call upon to do as we ask, and the protection Jesus provides when we ask for it in prayer, believing we receive it. When we fully accept that all things work for good ... Rom 8:28, we also accept that the outcome will be favorable no matter how the situation began.

This spares me from carrying a gun or relying on any other of the world's "solutions".

 

[Alithis]

well yes,. but should they insure their homes and cars, in case of bad scenarios that can, do, and have happened to people who trust in the Lord??

well that depends on how much they value their "things" i guess .

we have "house insurance " because we are required to as per the rules of our mortgage .
and we have "content insurance" and .., to be honest, im not really sure why .. we may drop it soon .but we share a home with others who also have possessions that are covered so i guess they contribute and pay it by doing so . i find it a pointless cost personally.

i feel we deal with each of these issues as they come to our attention .often we have not had things come to our focussed attention in order to "take it to the lord in prayer " However when it does come to our attention that we have not acknowledged the lord in a certain area .i find it is important to then Do so and seek his counsel on it .

it is a growth a process of learning trust .One thing we must NEVER do ,is avoid seeking his council because we fear the answer he may give us (usually because we already sense by the holy Spirit in our hearts what that answer is and have predetermined to do the opposite , so we avoid taking it honestly before the lord . but that's just the nature of the flesh at work.. and that is what we are to reckon ourselves as dead to that we may learn and do the will of God and not our own. the lord is gracious as we grow in learning .

when we learn that a certain thing in our life "MAY" not be pleasing to the lord ,we should never leap to defend it ..we should ,out of LOVE for Him ,enquire of the lord as to his will . that should always be our willing response in EVERYTHING as we become aware of it .

 

[Alithis]

I am coming in long after this discussion started and my answer would have been similar to Alithis' post #4. I shall elaborate a little; we do depend on Jesus and the power of His Name, the angels that we, as believers, are able to call upon to do as we ask, and the protection Jesus provides when we ask for it in prayer, believing we receive it. How could one ask for more than that or do more than that? When we fully accept that all things work for good ... Rom 8:28, we believe that the outcome will be favorable for us, no matter how the situation begins.

A few years ago, I saw a You Tube video of a would-be robber fleeing at the loud proclamation of the Name of Jesus. I would depend on this routinely happening for the believer.

"we believe that the outcome will be favorable for us, no matter how the situation begins. ".. yes i agree , that is both faith and trust and love

 

[Frogster]

well that depends on how much they value their "things" i guess .

we have "house insurance " because we are required to as per the rules of our mortgage .
and we have "content insurance" and .., to be honest, im not really sure why .. we may drop it soon .but we share a home with others who also have possessions that are covered so i guess they contribute and pay it by doing so . i find it a pointless cost personally.

i feel we deal with each of these issues as they come to our attention .often we have not had things come to our focussed attention in order to "take it to the lord in prayer " However when it does come to our attention that we have not acknowledged the lord in a certain area .i find it is important to then Do so and seek his counsel on it .

it is a growth a process of learning trust .One thing we must NEVER do ,is avoid seeking his council because we fear the answer he may give us (usually because we already sense by the holy Spirit in our hearts what that answer is and have predetermined to do the opposite , so we avoid taking it honestly before the lord . but that's just the nature of the flesh at work.. and that is what we are to reckon ourselves as dead to that we may learn and do the will of God and not our own. the lord is gracious as we grow in learning .

when we learn that a certain thing in our life "MAY" not be pleasing to the lord ,we should never leap to defend it ..we should ,out of LOVE for Him ,enquire of the lord as to his will . that should always be our willing response in EVERYTHING as we become aware of it .

Ok, so should a person who has no mortgage, it's been payed, drop the insurance on his home, hoping that a bad scenario does not happen? And likewise the same with the car? Thanks!

Bro, with all due respect, and you are a good bro, but really I think my point had been proved, you need not reply...take care..

 

[Svt4Him]

Are you a better Christian than others because of this?

I am coming in long after this discussion started; my answer would have been similar to Alithis' post #4. I shall elaborate a little; we do depend on Jesus and the power of His Name, the angels that we, as believers, are able to call upon to do as we ask, and the protection Jesus provides when we ask for it in prayer, believing we receive it. When we fully accept that all things work for good ... Rom 8:28, we also accept that the outcome will be favorable no matter how the situation began.

This spares me from carrying a gun or relying on any other of the world's "solutions".

 

[Alithis]

Ok, so should a person who has no mortgage, it's been payed, drop the insurance on his home, hoping that a bad scenario does not happen? And likewise the same with the car? Thanks!

Bro, with all due respect, and you are a good bro, but really I think my point had been proved, you need not reply...take care..

well no ,i don't think they should do so "hoping " that scenario does not take place . they should do so in faith that the lord knows what he is doing and God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.and therefore knowing that should that scenario take place that the lords hand will be at work in that situation also ... it called faith and trust

 

[Svt4Him]

well no ,i don't think they should do so "hoping " that scenario does not take place . they should do so in faith that the lord knows what he is doing and God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.and therefore knowing that should that scenario take place that the lords hand will be at work in that situation also ... it called faith and trust

So should Israel have had faith and trust or should they have trained with their weapons?

 

[Alithis]

So should Israel have had faith and trust or should they have trained with their weapons?

really ? lol i mean really ?

 

[Svt4Him]

really ? lol i mean really ?

Oh did you pick up on the fallacy? If not I'll let you know, it's not one or the other, it could in fact be both...

So to tie it back to the OP, one may actually be able to buy a gun to protect themselves like Israel did, not pray about it like David didn't, and have faith in God for protection, like both of them did.

Glad you picked up on the fact that only presenting it as two options was in fact silly.

 

[Frogster]

So should Israel have had faith and trust or should they have trained with their weapons?

same point I was making, and it's a good one!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Law/healthy boundaries exists because of transgressors. Grace does not apply to everything, until grace actually applies to everything. If you have determined to let yourself be killed at the expense of following the teachings of Jesus Christ, kindly be aware that not all people are called to do this.
.
protecting your own is not a sin . it is not a reflection of the reality when God is all and in all and people beat their swords into ploughshares and not train for war anymore .. but that hasn't happened yet, so one must be discerning.

 

[Frogster]

well no ,i don't think they should do so "hoping " that scenario does not take place . they should do so in faith that the lord knows what he is doing and God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.and therefore knowing that should that scenario take place that the lords hand will be at work in that situation also ... it called faith and trust

then you must agree that in faith and trust, they should insure their car and home, in case of a bad scenario, like how we see Noah built a boat, because he knew a bad scenario was coming, and so likewise some by guns by faith, due to bad scenarios. It all works, if you say by faith some don't insure, then you must recognize that like Noah being ready, some by faith buy guns to be ready too. Faith is faith...

 

[Alithis]

Oh did you pick up on the fallacy? If not I'll let you know, it's not one or the other, it could in fact be both...

So to tie it back to the OP, one may actually be able to buy a gun to protect themselves like Israel did, not pray about it like David didn't, and have faith in God for protection, like both of them did.

Glad you picked up on the fact that only presenting it as two options was in fact silly.

Umm could you show from scripture that David did not pray about it ? this is david whom god himself says" was a man after gods heart" .. i think there is more correct assumption that he sought the lord in all things then there is that he did not .

 

[Svt4Him]

You're asking me to prove a negative. Can you show me in Scripture where he did?
The story of what he did is in the Bible, can you add where he went to pray in the passage anywhere?

Umm could you show from scripture that David did not pray about it ? this is david whom god himself says" was a man after gods heart" .. i think there is more correct assumption that he sought the lord in all things then there is that he did not .

 

[Alithis]

then you must agree that in faith and trust, they should insure their car and home, in case of a bad scenario, like how we see Noah built a boat, because he knew a bad scenario was coming, and so likewise some by guns by faith, due to bad scenarios. It all works, if you say by faith some don't insure, then you must recognize that like Noah being ready, some by faith buy guns to be ready too. Faith id faith...

no i "must" not agree but i may do if i wish . however i must agree that we are not to be so concerned about worldly possession

-Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

-No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

-If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

-because ..... my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

and because .... you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.

If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain, 7 for we brought nothing into the world, and[c] we cannot take anything out of the world. 8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.

 

[Alithis]

You're asking me to prove a negative. Can you show me in Scripture where he did?
The story of what he did is in the Bible, can you add where he went to pray in the passage anywhere?

sure .. try the psalms

 

[Svt4Him]

sure .. try the psalms

Tried, may need to be a bit more specific.