Discussion Defending self and others.

[Svt4Him]

Us 4 and no more.

New American Standard Bible
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, And the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

New International Version
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain, 7 for we brought nothing into the world, and[c] we cannot take anything out of the world. 8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.

 

[Alithis]

Us 4 and no more.

New American Standard Bible
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, And the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

New International Version
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

there is no greater way to provide then by having faith in the Lord Jesus .. for "No one who hopes in you will ever be put to shame, "

 

[Alithis]

Tried, may need to be a bit more specific.

no need ..it displays the pattern and attitude of his life and is written that he inquired of the lord in every area of his life and is validated by God as having pleased God doing so in everything, except the matter of uriah ..( which led to Sin. )

 

[Svt4Him]

there is no greater way to provide then by having faith in the Lord Jesus .. for "No one who hopes in you will ever be put to shame, "

Ah hahaha...Yup, an inheritance means nothing. Granted the context is in regards to wealth, but let's not let that get in the way.

no need ..it displays the pattern and attitude of his life and is written that he inquired of the lord in every area of his life and is validated by God as having pleased God doing so in everything, except the matter of uriah ..( which led to Sin. )

So again, where in the story did he take a prayer break? I'm assuming by this post you're agreeing it's not there. Totally agree.

 

[Frogster]

no i "must" not agree but i may do if i wish . however i must agree that we are not to be so concerned about worldly possession

-Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

-No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

-If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

-because ..... my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

and because .... you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.

If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain, 7 for we brought nothing into the world, and[c] we cannot take anything out of the world. 8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.

Yeah, you're right! Yes, if my house ever burns down without insurance, or if I ever get sued for fault in a car accident and owe a million dollars in damages, and I lose my home, I will just tell the family..

Don't worry about it guys, better to be homeless, than love "treasures on earth".

When i first read this, I actually thought you made an incorrect reply, thinking you were talking to someone else about materialism. Then I thought my bro was joking, which is fine, I like jokes too, but if this is really your reply then with all due respect, and courtesy, this is the most off topic reply that I have ever seen, it would have been better to just concede the point I made, then to try to go where this post goes. Oh my....frog.

 

[Alithis]

Ah hahaha...Yup, an inheritance means nothing. Granted the context is in regards to wealth, but let's not let that get in the way.



So again, where in the story did he take a prayer break? I'm assuming by this post you're agreeing it's not there. Totally agree.

i never brought the point up .. you did .
you said said david did not pray in regard to his actions of warfare .. but the pattern of his life as portrayed in scripture strongly suggests the opposite .And in no way is it automatic validation for our own actions . we each must learn to acknowledge the lord in everything that he may direct our paths

 

[YESLORDIWILL]

yes .. and David displayed to us that we must trust in him regardless ..for though he had power a number of times to kill saul who was tryng to murder him (it would have been justifiable ) he did not, but trusted in the Lord to bring about HIS will in HIS time.

Shoot, no man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. 1 Sam 24, 26, Mt 12:29, Mk 3:27

Only Peter Pan could pull that off...does anyone know if Peter Pan was a real boy?

 

[Svt4Him]

i never brought the point up .. you did .
you said said david did not pray in regard to his actions of warfare .. but the pattern of his life as portrayed in scripture strongly suggests the opposite .And in no way is it automatic validation for our own actions . we each must learn to acknowledge the lord in everything that he may direct our paths

Tell me, when in the story did David pray? Point it out in the story, even in Psalms. If you can't, then...well, you can't. Fairly straight forward IMO. Therefore nothing I've said changes, but I'd suggest if you have to add things to the Bible to make it align with your theology, perhaps look at your theology.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

i recall when Absalom his son was cut down in battle because he started a civil war . David mourned the loss of his enemies . he couldn't defend his son, his death was unavoidable .. but he never stopped loving his son .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Saul was like every Israelite under the law, unable to follow it and motivated by fear of not being accepted by others
David was more like the sermon on the mount
-
Even today within the church the house of saul and the house of david abide until the harvest .
-
the attitude of David and the attitude of Saul regarding self defence looked the same because it was a military age and they were both kings .. but the mode of operation .. completely opposite

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Saul in self defense only cared about people fearing him and following his authority, insomuch that he ordered to have his son put to death for not following orders, but his men stopped him.
David in self defense cared about others, he could have taken the life of Saul but would not because God had chosen Saul also. He was born before his time, to show a particular way, so when people said "son of David" it would mean something.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Saul, SAUL why do you persecute me? is prophetic fulfillment, Jesus did not slay Saul (self defense) for his persecution of that way, but renamed him Paul and made him his spokesman to the gentiles. Self defense is permissible, but Jesus showed us a more excellent way, and sometimes we are given the chance to make it happen.

 

[Alithis]

Tell me, when in the story did David pray? Point it out in the story, even in Psalms. If you can't, then...well, you can't. Fairly straight forward IMO. Therefore nothing I've said changes, but I'd suggest if you have to add things to the Bible to make it align with your theology, perhaps look at your theology.

well ok since you insist .. you have strongly suggested that David did not pray and seek the lord in regard to his wars and battles and I have said the entire of the scriptures regarding David ,and the psalms, display a pattern of life in which he ALWAYS prayed .
and you have asked "when in the story did David pray? Point it out in the story........"

im a little surprised you asked for im sure you read the same scriptures I do ..
but here you go

2 Samuel 2:1
Then it came about afterwards that David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up to one of the cities of Judah?" And the LORD said to him, "Go up " So David said, "Where shall I go up?" And He said, "To Hebron."

1 Samuel 23:2
So David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go and attack these Philistines?" And the LORD said to David, "Go and attack the Philistines and deliver Keilah."

1 Samuel 30:8
David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I pursue this band? Shall I overtake them?" And He said to him, "Pursue, for you will surely overtake them, and you will surely rescue all."

2 Samuel 5:19
Then David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up against the Philistines? Will You give them into my hand?" And the LORD said to David, "Go up, for I will certainly give the Philistines into your hand."

2 Samuel 5:23
When David inquired of the LORD, He said, "You shall not go directly up; circle around behind them and come at them in front of the balsam trees.

so we see plainly that it was always his first course of action was to pray to the Lord about his actions

 

[Svt4Him]

You're kind of proving my point. In every instance listed below, when David prayed, it was noted...so show me where David prayed before fighting Goliath. If you'd recall, that was the story I used. I didn't say David never prayed, I said there is no indication he did in that specific instance. And so far you're proving it's correct.

well ok since you insist .. you have strongly suggested that David did not pray and seek the lord in regard to his wars and battles and I have said the entire of the scriptures regarding David ,and the psalms, display a pattern of life in which he ALWAYS prayed .
and you have asked "when in the story did David pray? Point it out in the story........"

im a little surprised you asked for im sure you read the same scriptures I do ..
but here you go

2 Samuel 2:1
Then it came about afterwards that David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up to one of the cities of Judah?" And the LORD said to him, "Go up " So David said, "Where shall I go up?" And He said, "To Hebron."

1 Samuel 23:2
So David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go and attack these Philistines?" And the LORD said to David, "Go and attack the Philistines and deliver Keilah."

1 Samuel 30:8
David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I pursue this band? Shall I overtake them?" And He said to him, "Pursue, for you will surely overtake them, and you will surely rescue all."

2 Samuel 5:19
Then David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up against the Philistines? Will You give them into my hand?" And the LORD said to David, "Go up, for I will certainly give the Philistines into your hand."

2 Samuel 5:23
When David inquired of the LORD, He said, "You shall not go directly up; circle around behind them and come at them in front of the balsam trees.

so we see plainly that it was always his first course of action was to pray to the Lord about his actions

 

[Always in His Presence]

Do you think David sat cleaning his sword picturing in his mind his next victim?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Alithis, said:

well ok since you insist .. you have strongly suggested that David did not pray and seek the lord in regard to his wars and battles and I have said the entire of the scriptures regarding David ,and the psalms, display a pattern of life in which he ALWAYS prayed .
and you have asked "when in the story did David pray? Point it out in the story........"

im a little surprised you asked for im sure you read the same scriptures I do ..
but here you go

2 Samuel 2:1
Then it came about afterwards that David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up to one of the cities of Judah?" And the LORD said to him, "Go up " So David said, "Where shall I go up?" And He said, "To Hebron."

1 Samuel 23:2
So David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go and attack these Philistines?" And the LORD said to David, "Go and attack the Philistines and deliver Keilah."

1 Samuel 30:8
David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I pursue this band? Shall I overtake them?" And He said to him, "Pursue, for you will surely overtake them, and you will surely rescue all."

2 Samuel 5:19
Then David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up against the Philistines? Will You give them into my hand?" And the LORD said to David, "Go up, for I will certainly give the Philistines into your hand."

2 Samuel 5:23
When David inquired of the LORD, He said, "You shall not go directly up; circle around behind them and come at them in front of the balsam trees.

so we see plainly that it was always his first course of action was to pray to the Lord about his actions

My reply

Hmmmm... Virtually every time David asked if God wanted him to take up arms and personally do something to defend himself and/or others and virtually every time God enmpowered David for his own defense.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Frogster]

Alithis, said:

well ok since you insist .. you have strongly suggested that David did not pray and seek the lord in regard to his wars and battles and I have said the entire of the scriptures regarding David ,and the psalms, display a pattern of life in which he ALWAYS prayed .
and you have asked "when in the story did David pray? Point it out in the story........"

im a little surprised you asked for im sure you read the same scriptures I do ..
but here you go

2 Samuel 2:1
Then it came about afterwards that David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up to one of the cities of Judah?" And the LORD said to him, "Go up " So David said, "Where shall I go up?" And He said, "To Hebron."

1 Samuel 23:2
So David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go and attack these Philistines?" And the LORD said to David, "Go and attack the Philistines and deliver Keilah."

1 Samuel 30:8
David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I pursue this band? Shall I overtake them?" And He said to him, "Pursue, for you will surely overtake them, and you will surely rescue all."

2 Samuel 5:19
Then David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up against the Philistines? Will You give them into my hand?" And the LORD said to David, "Go up, for I will certainly give the Philistines into your hand."

2 Samuel 5:23
When David inquired of the LORD, He said, "You shall not go directly up; circle around behind them and come at them in front of the balsam trees.

so we see plainly that it was always his first course of action was to pray to the Lord about his actions

My reply

Hmmmm... Virtually every time David asked if God wanted him to take up arms and personally do something to defend himself and/or others and virtually every time God enmpowered David for his own defense.

Thank you for proving my point.

Well done!

 

[Alithis]

Alithis, said:

well ok since you insist .. you have strongly suggested that David did not pray and seek the lord in regard to his wars and battles and I have said the entire of the scriptures regarding David ,and the psalms, display a pattern of life in which he ALWAYS prayed .
and you have asked "when in the story did David pray? Point it out in the story........"

im a little surprised you asked for im sure you read the same scriptures I do ..
but here you go

2 Samuel 2:1
Then it came about afterwards that David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up to one of the cities of Judah?" And the LORD said to him, "Go up " So David said, "Where shall I go up?" And He said, "To Hebron."

1 Samuel 23:2
So David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go and attack these Philistines?" And the LORD said to David, "Go and attack the Philistines and deliver Keilah."

1 Samuel 30:8
David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I pursue this band? Shall I overtake them?" And He said to him, "Pursue, for you will surely overtake them, and you will surely rescue all."

2 Samuel 5:19
Then David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up against the Philistines? Will You give them into my hand?" And the LORD said to David, "Go up, for I will certainly give the Philistines into your hand."

2 Samuel 5:23
When David inquired of the LORD, He said, "You shall not go directly up; circle around behind them and come at them in front of the balsam trees.

so we see plainly that it was always his first course of action was to pray to the Lord about his actions

My reply

Hmmmm... Virtually every time David asked if God wanted him to take up arms and personally do something to defend himself and/or others and virtually every time God empowered David for his own defense.

Thank you for proving my point.

umm yes i never denied that .. the point was in reference to some one else post on side topic .and i maintain that few actually inquired of the lord before they went and bought a hand gun .. . being that 2 in all testified of doing so , the rest probably just went and did what ever was right in thier own eyes ..

but you knew that was my point earlier .

and you must remember David was acting on the earlier directive of the lord as given by both Moses and Joshua to take ,inhabit and subdue the land and their enemies .

we are under the directive to preach the gospel to all men.. not kill them . so we do not have that same God given directive which David was acting upon .

 

[Alithis]

You're kind of proving my point. In every instance listed below, when David prayed, it was noted...so show me where David prayed before fighting Goliath. If you'd recall, that was the story I used. I didn't say David never prayed, I said there is no indication he did in that specific instance. And so far you're proving it's correct.

show me he did not .. it was you that raised the point not me .
his entire life is shown as a man who sought the lord in everything he did ..

 

[Alithis]

what are you guys actually trying to defend against ..? you seem to be attacking me for saying .. trust in the lord God . am i breaking some unwritten law of man when i say .. trust in the lord ?
what exactly is it that you feel the need to consistently oppose someone saying " trust in the lord " AND acknowledge the lord in all your ways .. and seek the lord ..??

these are all simple things that we all say Amen to ..