Defending Orthodoxy - My Response to J.D. Hall

[Light of the East]

It might be worth remembering that you catch more flies with honey than bashing them with a plank of wood

Indeed. As I mentioned to Fr. Matt, in retrospect, I do see this first post as having too much "tone" to it. Subsequent articles have less of that and are there to simply point out the correlation between Orthodox worship and theology and Scripture.

 

[ArmyMatt]

again, while I appreciate your zeal, even with a softer tone, you should not have messaged him at all.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

I appreciate your zeal brother, it great to see someone care, however the best thing you could do for your enemy is to pray for them, that the Holy Spirit guides them to the true faith of Holy Orthodoxy. Fasting, prayer, alsmgiving, regularly going to confession , etc. Is what one should be doing.

Let me tell you, when I first found Orthodoxy, I was pretty zealous, I mean I was pretty much using polemics against the Roman Catholics and Protestants, even the Oriental Orthodox, yet I probably turned many away, as in my zeal, it was probably perceived as rude to the heterodox. One day I was talking to my priest, I was bothered our parish council president practically said because of the rise of Islam, the Orthodox, and Roman Catholics need to become closer, I was shocked and in my zeal not happy, my priest said "worry about your own salvation, don't worry what others say about non-Orthodox", it was a very good lesson to learn.

What I am trying to say is worry about your own salvation, use your zeal in prayer, confession, alsmgiving, asceticism, reference, scripture, etc. Because you will need all that the moment burn out hits, because one day it will, then that when your faith is tested.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Don't take this the wrong way because I love ya, man....big time. But I'd say that you might be taking your talent as a writer or debater and using it without a mandate from the Lord. As others have said, entering the Orthodox faith you have a massive new world of spirituality, history, ikonography, theology, discipline, contemplation, and study to soak yourself in. You're not even Orthodox yet and you're debating as Orthodox against the non-Orthodox. Hyperdoxy is the worst ailment of the noob novice in Orthodoxy.

Is it God's will and desire for you right now to writer letters to Mr. Hall and his folks? Is debating Calvinists your own fallen drive or from God?

When I first went into Orthodoxy, I noticed there was no Orthodox presence in my city here. Immediately I thought it was my job to try and get that going. I was passionately asking my priest and folks at my church about it and wanting to get something going. Our then-deacon who is now a wonderful friend at our parish to me said, "Is it the Lord's will that there be a Church in Visalia, CA at this time? Did He reveal that to you in prayer? Did the Bishop feel this same way?" It dawned on me that I was just hyperdox, on fire, excited, and I wanted to shout from the rooftops about how Orthodoxy was the greatest thing since sliced bread to everyone. But just because I feel like shouting doesn't mean the Lord wants me shouting.

Humility and learning in quiet stillness is the Orthodox way. I wish I had known that when I came in. I came into Orthodoxy like a man on fire. These days debating Catholics online or Calvinists, it just does nothing.

In prayer I have felt my vocation in Orthodoxy is

a) being the best dad I can be
b) being the best husband I can be
c) being the best reader at church possible
d) trying my best to be an effective teacher
e) TO LEARN.....

I just don't debate much. Heck, these days I don't even debate much here in TAW with posters who I see as seriously in error or misguided. I just don't feel a calling.

Back in the Catholic Church days, I was a guitar-player in our 10:30am Mass band. I am a good guitarist. But after I realized that strumming a guitar wasn't really right, that church isn't Sgt. Pepper, that the ancient liturgy was not Woodstock and that instruments weren't the focus or part of the equation, I got out of that.....Maybe just because you're a good writer doesn't mean you're called at this moment to go debating, arguing, and kicking butt. You're in the learning and growing phase.....

I am here today, believing in Orthodox theology and waiting for the green light to go from the Lord precisely because when I was posting my Calvinist diatribes against the Church, some people enlightened me out of my ignorance in the same manner - debate. Mr. Hall and his ilk are in darkness and need someone to respond to them. I am a writer. I have won awards for my writing and have been published in a national magazine. It's what I do. It's my gift, and I intend to use it without apology.

I have prayed for Mr. Hall, that his eyes be opened. May my efforts help to achieve this if God will use them.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I am at a point in my life where I just love Protestants and Catholics and try to find common ground. I tell them about Orthodoxy, but don't debate them. My kids go to a Lutheran school and the teachers and folks there are just amazing. Probably better human beings than me for sure.....I just don't focus on their disagreements or divergence from us, I try to focus on finding peace within myself and reflecting that joy and peace to them.

Pride is always something that is on my mind in regards to my spiritual walk. It is a known danger to me and something that I have more than once confessed to my priest.

Do I allow myself to not wield the sword of truth simply because I may not be handling it with the best of intentions, sloppily, or with pride? It is an exercise in learning for me to write these things because I learn how to be in forums and debate without rancor. If you could see some of the things I wrote 20 years ago, you would understand what I am talking about here.

I can say that I didn't so much feel anger as a desire to put forth a correction. Why? Because one of the things that Protestantism does to its adherents is to keep them in the dark. In 25 years of dedicated Protestantism, I never once heard about the Early Fathers of the Church. My only reference to any of those who came before me was limited quotes from St. Augustine which support the doctrines of Calvinism. It wasn't until I was challenged and began to actually read that which the Early Fathers had said that I began to realize that I had been theologically duped.

I think, therefore, that it is necessary if we are to bring people out of their errors, to attempt to state the truth, just as was done for me. I don't know Mr. Hall personally. He may have read the Early Fathers of the Church, he may have had someone discuss with him Orthodox Liturgy and the symbolism and he may have rejected it all.

And on the other hand, maybe he has been trained by people who, like I was, have kept him in the dark.

I do appreciate your concern for my spiritual state, and it is well-founded, but I will never learn to be humble in a vacuum. In contests, one goes in and engages the opponent, then goes back and after the fray, assesses what happened. The wise man sees his mistakes and learns from them, then enters the fray again, seeking to do better this time.

I think, however, that given your concern, which is valid, I shall run this by my spiritual director. Thanks!