Deeper Understanding of Atonement

[YeshuaFan]

The inspired words of the Holy Spirit say David's problem with his situation has to do in part with David's mother at conception. These sources explain how that might be an issue.

His mother was a sinner, and she gave birth to a sinner!

 

[bling]

All humans are born with sin natures, save for Jesus!

Was Christ tempted to sin like we are tempted to sin?
Do you think we got more than just knowledge from Adam?

 

[bling]

His mother was a sinner, and she gave birth to a sinner!

No it does not say that.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Was Christ tempted to sin like we are tempted to sin?
Do you think we got more than just knowledge from Adam?

Jesus was tempted in all things as we are, and yet it was impossible for Him to have ever sinned!

 

[YeshuaFan]

No it does not say that.

Paul did, all have sinned, correct?

 

[bling]

Paul did, all have sinned, correct?

This conversation is way off topic, but it has to do specifically with David's mother's previous marriage and if it was Old Testament right for Jessie to be married to her. Read my previous posts.

 

[bling]

Jesus was tempted in all things as we are, and yet it was impossible for Him to have ever sinned!

Jesus will would not allow Him to sin, but was there something more powerful keeping him from sinning?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Jesus will would not allow Him to sin, but was there something more powerful keeping him from sinning?

Jesus was both God and man, so in His humanity was tempted, but in His deity would never sin!

 

[bling]

Jesus was both God and man, so in His humanity was tempted, but in His deity would never sin!

How robotic is God to you? How much free will does Jesus have?
Deity dwelled in the human body of Jesus, but deity also dwells within our human bodies, so how can we sin?

 

[YeshuaFan]

How robotic is God to you? How much free will does Jesus have?
Deity dwelled in the human body of Jesus, but deity also dwells within our human bodies, so how can we sin?

BIG difference is that Jesus was fully God and fully man, while we are but human!

 

[bling]

BIG difference is that Jesus was fully God and fully man, while we are but human!

Do all "but humans" have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
What % of the Holy Spirit dwells within you? Is he 10% there?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Do all "but humans" have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
What % of the Holy Spirit dwells within you? Is he 10% there?

Jesus was/is 100 % God and 100 % Man, I am just 100 % human!

 

[bling]

Jesus was/is 100 % God and 100 % Man, I am just 100 % human!

No deity dwells within your physical body?

 

[YeshuaFan]

No deity dwells within your physical body?

The Holy Spirit is within me, but I am not God, but Jesus was and is God!

 

[bling]

The Holy Spirit is within me, but I am not God, but Jesus was and is God!

OK, more could be said about the indwelling Holy Spirit, but we are way off topic.

 

[ClementofA]

What’s your atonement model?

Don't have one.

Or one might call it the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" model.

Or the Mystery model. As in mysteries like, how can God exist? What's beyond the universe? Can it be expanding? Why isn't there nothing? The Trinity, etc.

8 Bible verses about The Mystery Of Christ

Pr.3:5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

1 Cor.1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of discourse, so that the cross of the Christ should not be emptied of *its* power.

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those indeed perishing, but to us being saved it is *the* power of God. 19 For it has been written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;

and the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20Where *is the* wise *man* ? Where *is* *the* scribe? Where *is* *the* debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God, the world through *its* wisdom did not know God, God was pleased through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those believing.

22 Forasmuch as both Jews ask for signs, and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 we, however, preach Christ having been crucified, a stumbling block indeed to *the* Jewish and foolishness to Gentiles,24 but those called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ *the* power of God and *the* wisdom of God.

 

[bling]

Don't have one.

Or one might call it the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" model.

Or the Mystery model. As in mysteries like, how can God exist? What's beyond the universe? Can it be expanding? Why isn't there nothing? The Trinity, etc.

8 Bible verses about The Mystery Of Christ

Pr.3:5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

1 Cor.1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of discourse, so that the cross of the Christ should not be emptied of *its* power.

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those indeed perishing, but to us being saved it is *the* power of God. 19 For it has been written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;

and the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20Where *is the* wise *man* ? Where *is* *the* scribe? Where *is* *the* debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God, the world through *its* wisdom did not know God, God was pleased through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those believing.

22 Forasmuch as both Jews ask for signs, and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 we, however, preach Christ having been crucified, a stumbling block indeed to *the* Jewish and foolishness to Gentiles,24 but those called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ *the* power of God and *the* wisdom of God.

You said: “the message of the cross …to us being saved it is *the* power of God” and “…preach Christ having been crucified… 24 but those called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ *the* power of God and *the* wisdom of God.”

1 Corinthians 2: 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Christ’s crucifixion is an illogical, foolish, stumbling block, mystery to the unbeliever back then and even today, but is it to be that way to the believer?

Paul was in Corinth 18 months and all he spoke on was: “Christ and Him crucified” and you feel it remained a “mystery” to them?

If you have truly experienced (empathetically strongly felt) crucifixion with Christ and go through a similar experience every time you take the Lord’s Super, would you not have knowledge of the crucifixion over time?

Christ crucifixion only benefits (is for) those that accept (through faith) Christ Crucified (the ransom payment) and thus are released (redeemed) to enter the Kingdom as children, but those that refuse Jesus Christ and Him crucified (the ransom payment) it is meaningless and foolish (atonement does not take place for them).

Have you experienced the painful experience of being crucified with Christ?

 

[ClementofA]

Paul was in Corinth 18 months and all he spoke on was: “Christ and Him crucified” and you feel it remained a “mystery” to them?

How would i know what the Corinthians - who had a number of moral & fleshly issues - thought about atonement theories? To speak on "Christ & Him crucified" is not limited to the topic of the atonement. Paul also speaks about being beguiled by the serpent from the "simplicity" that is in Christ. He didn't preach Christ with the words of man's wisdom.

 

[bling]

How would i know what the Corinthians - who had a number of moral & fleshly issues - thought about atonement theories? To speak on "Christ & Him crucified" is not limited to the topic of the atonement. Paul also speaks about being beguiled by the serpent from the "simplicity" that is in Christ. He didn't preach Christ with the words of man's wisdom.

The nonbeliever has a real problem understanding Christ’s cruel torture, humiliation and murder as the atonement sacrifice, so He/she is not going to understand atonement, but Christians do need to come to an understanding.

Atonement is something we can experience and need to experience even more so than explained what/how it is happening.

As we come to the personal realization that Christ went through the torture, humiliation and murder on the cross because of us and to benefit us we can experience that death blow to our heart (Acts 2:37) and reexperience that death blow every time we are brought to remembrance of the cross with communion. The only thing that keeps us standing through the pain and conscious will being brought to the cross (be crucified with Christ) is the fact the greatest Love possible is being shown for us at the same time. Is this not what you experience?

 

[ClementofA]

The nonbeliever has a real problem understanding Christ’s cruel torture, humiliation and murder as the atonement sacrifice, so He/she is not going to understand atonement, but Christians do need to come to an understanding.

I relegate it to the category of other mysteries. That spares me from the need of trying to understand it with man's wisdom. Faith does not require understanding. In fact efforts to try to understand can lead to loss of faith.

Atonement is something we can experience and need to experience even more so than explained what/how it is happening.

As we come to the personal realization that Christ went through the torture, humiliation and murder on the cross because of us and to benefit us we can experience that death blow to our heart (Acts 2:37) and reexperience that death blow every time we are brought to remembrance of the cross with communion. The only thing that keeps us standing through the pain and conscious will being brought to the cross (be crucified with Christ) is the fact the greatest Love possible is being shown for us at the same time. Is this not what you experience?

Experiencing Christ is what the Christian life is about. Not knowing how many angels can sit on the head of a pin & many other irrelevant & or unknowable things discussed on message forums. I consider spending my time in prayer to be what the Lord would rather i be doing than idly wasting my life on irrelevancies & idle chit chat. Every idle word will be brought into judgment.

Phil.3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Psa.34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.