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Deeper Understanding of Atonement

bling

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Babies have a "bent" toward evil - it is in their nature. To "fix" that they need a savior. So the argument is not that babies need the Gospel but don't get it. Rather the argument is that the Gospel covers babies, and they get the Gospel benefit of having their sinful nature removed when they are raised at the 1 Thess 4 resurrection and rapture event that takes place at the 2nd coming.
The Bible does not say our "nature" was changed with Adam's sin, but we did gain knowledge, but is knowledge in and of itself evil?
The good news also goes out to babies and the young because they can use it when they get older.
Your saying all babies have their sinful nature removed but have no scripture to support that conclusion?
 
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bling

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Babies are not innocent in themselves, as they also were touched by the Fall, and so are sinners by nature!
Where do you find babies are "sinners by nature"?
Adam and Eve sinned with the nature they had so was that a sinful nature?
 
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bling

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When King David baby died as a direct result of his sinning, David knew that he would one day go to see that baby, and David was a man after God's own heart, and was heaven bound, so the baby should have been also!
It does not say: "God saved King David's baby", but supports the idea babies go to heaven, but if a baby has not sinned the baby is in a save condition not needing salvation, so where does it say the baby was ever "lost"?
 
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BobRyan

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The Bible does not say our "nature" was changed with Adam's sin

Adam's nature was changed with his sin - and all his children were "born in sin" - in fact "in sin conceived".
Ps 51:1
"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." NIV
"For I was born a sinner--yes, from the moment my mother conceived me."NLT
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."NASB
"Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me. "HCB
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."KJV2000
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." KJV

One thing is very obvious - These texts are not a case of David complaining about his mother. Rather he is speaking of his own condition.

There is no point in Ps 51 where David turns from his own sin - and sinful condition - and instead makes the focus - his mother's sin.

Ps 51
Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness;
According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity
And cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
And my sin is ever before me.
4 Against You, You only, I have sinned
And done what is evil in Your sight,
So that You are justified when You speak
And blameless when You judge.
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
6 Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
7 Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Rom 3
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

That "bent" toward evil that Paul says - exempts no one -- is what we call the "sinful nature" and Paul sometimes calls it "the flesh" as in Romans 7 being at war against our mind - that is determined to follow Christ.

Your saying all babies have their sinful nature removed but have no scripture to support that conclusion?

I am saying that every saint - baby or not - has their sinful nature removed at the resurrection in 1Thess 4. rapture and resurrection that takes place at the 2nd coming.

1 Cor 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
 
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BobRyan

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It does not say: "God saved King David's baby", but supports the idea babies go to heaven, but if a baby has not sinned the baby is in a save condition not needing salvation, so where does it say the baby was ever "lost"?

As I already said - for babies it is not a matter of "having sinned" it is a matter of having a sinful nature that cannot be taken into heaven- it is a "bent" toward rebellion. In our very nature.
 
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bling

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Adam's nature was changed with his sin - and all his children were "born in sin" - in fact "in sin conceived".
Ps 51:1
"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." NIV
"For I was born a sinner--yes, from the moment my mother conceived me."NLT
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."NASB
"Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me. "HCB
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."KJV2000
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." KJV

Rom 3
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

That "bent" toward evil that Paul says - exempts no one -- is what we call the "sinful nature" and Paul sometimes calls it "the flesh" as in Romans 7 being at war against our mind - that is determined to follow Christ.



I am saying that every saint - baby or not - has their sinful nature removed at the resurrection in 1Thess 4. rapture and resurrection that takes place at the 2nd coming.

1 Cor 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Man is and always has been created in the image of God:

Gen. 9: 6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.

God is justifying the punishment of death for murdering a human which is made in God’s image, so what attributes of God does every mature adult have? I would suggest all mature adults have the ability to obtain and grow Godly type Love, since God is Love. Other earthly animals can have an instinctive type of love, but not a Godly type Love.


Those that argue for a baby being in sin will miss-use this:


Ps 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

A Perspective on Psalm 51:5


by William P. Murray, Jr.


Are men born sinners? A commonly abused 'proof' text is Psalm 51:5. Although I cannot claim the following as a result of my own scholarship or research, the information is a culmination from many sources over the years, and, I feel, the best explanation of this particular text that I have come across.



Psalm 51:5 - "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." KJV


This is a Hebrew poetic parallelism, with the second line of the verse saying the same thing as the first line in a slightly different way. The first verb, of which David is the subject, is in the Pulal tense (as is "made" in # Job 15:7 ), which is an idiom used to refer to creation or origins, and is the 'passive' form of Polel ("formed": # Ps 90:2 Pro 26:10 ). TWOT, #623, 1:270.


The subject of this verse is NOT the state or constitution of David's nature as a sinner at, or before, his birth. The subject is, as the verse clearly states, the 'circumstances' of his conception- the sexual union which produced him was an act of sin, and addresses the unrighteousness of his mother's act, not anything (such as a sin nature) inherent within himself. (The NIV's version of this verse is an INTERPRETATION, not a translation: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.")


David had two half-sisters (Zeruiah, Abigail).....:


1CHR 2:13-16 13 “And Jesse begat his firstborn Eliab, and Abinadab the second, and Shimma the third, 14 Nethaneel the fourth, Raddai the fifth, 15 Ozem the sixth, David the seventh: 16 Whose sisters were Zeruiah, and Abigail. And the sons of Zeruiah; Abishai, and Joab, and Asahel, three. 17 And Abigail bare Amasa: and the father of Amasa was Jether the Ishmeelite.”


....and the father of David's half-sisters was not Jesse, but Nahash:


2Sam 17:25 “And Absalom made Amasa captain of the host instead of Joab: which Amasa was a man's son, whose name was Ithra an Israelite, that went in to Abigail the daughter of Nahash, sister to Zeruiah Joab's mother.”


Nahash, the father of Zeruiah and Abigal, David's half-sisters, was an Ammonite king:


1Sam 11:1 “Then Nahash the Ammonite came up, and encamped against Jabeshgilead: and all the men of Jabesh said unto Nahash, Make a covenant with us, and we will serve thee.”


1Sam 12:12 “And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.”


David's father was Jesse, not Nahash. Zeruiah and Abigal were David's half-sisters through his mother's previous marriage to Nahash. This would also help explain why Nahash showed kindness to David, perhaps out of respect for David's mother, Nahash’s former wife and the mother of two of Nahash's children.


2Sam 10:2 “Then said David, I will shew kindness unto Hanun the son of Nahash, as his father shewed kindness unto me. And David sent to comfort him by the hand of his servants for his father. And David's servants came into the land of the children of Ammon.”


David's mother was most likely the second wife of Jesse, the first wife being the mother of David's half-brothers. Jesse’s first wife's standing before the 'righteousness of the law', (her not having been married to, or the concubine of, a heathen king, as was David’s mother), would have been superior to that of David's mother, and explains why David's half-brothers, Jesse's other sons, would have felt they were superior to David, and why he would be accused of being prideful, for thinking he was as good as them....
 
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YeshuaFan

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The Bible does not say our "nature" was changed with Adam's sin, but we did gain knowledge, but is knowledge in and of itself evil?
The good news also goes out to babies and the young because they can use it when they get older.
Your saying all babies have their sinful nature removed but have no scripture to support that conclusion?
When babies are resurrected, they will have glorified forms, no more sin nature!
 
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YeshuaFan

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Man is and always has been created in the image of God:

Gen. 9: 6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.

God is justifying the punishment of death for murdering a human which is made in God’s image, so what attributes of God does every mature adult have? I would suggest all mature adults have the ability to obtain and grow Godly type Love, since God is Love. Other earthly animals can have an instinctive type of love, but not a Godly type Love.
Very small children show off sin natures early on, as I have seen 2 small kids arguing over a toy and one start hitting other way in angry state!

Those that argue for a baby being in sin will miss-use this:


Ps 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

A Perspective on Psalm 51:5


by William P. Murray, Jr.


Are men born sinners? A commonly abused 'proof' text is Psalm 51:5. Although I cannot claim the following as a result of my own scholarship or research, the information is a culmination from many sources over the years, and, I feel, the best explanation of this particular text that I have come across.



Psalm 51:5 - "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." KJV


This is a Hebrew poetic parallelism, with the second line of the verse saying the same thing as the first line in a slightly different way. The first verb, of which David is the subject, is in the Pulal tense (as is "made" in # Job 15:7 ), which is an idiom used to refer to creation or origins, and is the 'passive' form of Polel ("formed": # Ps 90:2 Pro 26:10 ). TWOT, #623, 1:270.


The subject of this verse is NOT the state or constitution of David's nature as a sinner at, or before, his birth. The subject is, as the verse clearly states, the 'circumstances' of his conception- the sexual union which produced him was an act of sin, and addresses the unrighteousness of his mother's act, not anything (such as a sin nature) inherent within himself. (The NIV's version of this verse is an INTERPRETATION, not a translation: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.")


David had two half-sisters (Zeruiah, Abigail).....:


1CHR 2:13-16 13 “And Jesse begat his firstborn Eliab, and Abinadab the second, and Shimma the third, 14 Nethaneel the fourth, Raddai the fifth, 15 Ozem the sixth, David the seventh: 16 Whose sisters were Zeruiah, and Abigail. And the sons of Zeruiah; Abishai, and Joab, and Asahel, three. 17 And Abigail bare Amasa: and the father of Amasa was Jether the Ishmeelite.”


....and the father of David's half-sisters was not Jesse, but Nahash:


2Sam 17:25 “And Absalom made Amasa captain of the host instead of Joab: which Amasa was a man's son, whose name was Ithra an Israelite, that went in to Abigail the daughter of Nahash, sister to Zeruiah Joab's mother.”


Nahash, the father of Zeruiah and Abigal, David's half-sisters, was an Ammonite king:


1Sam 11:1 “Then Nahash the Ammonite came up, and encamped against Jabeshgilead: and all the men of Jabesh said unto Nahash, Make a covenant with us, and we will serve thee.”


1Sam 12:12 “And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.”


David's father was Jesse, not Nahash. Zeruiah and Abigal were David's half-sisters through his mother's previous marriage to Nahash. This would also help explain why Nahash showed kindness to David, perhaps out of respect for David's mother, Nahash’s former wife and the mother of two of Nahash's children.


2Sam 10:2 “Then said David, I will shew kindness unto Hanun the son of Nahash, as his father shewed kindness unto me. And David sent to comfort him by the hand of his servants for his father. And David's servants came into the land of the children of Ammon.”


David's mother was most likely the second wife of Jesse, the first wife being the mother of David's half-brothers. Jesse’s first wife's standing before the 'righteousness of the law', (her not having been married to, or the concubine of, a heathen king, as was David’s mother), would have been superior to that of David's mother, and explains why David's half-brothers, Jesse's other sons, would have felt they were superior to David, and why he would be accused of being prideful, for thinking he was as good as them....
 
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YeshuaFan

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It does not say: "God saved King David's baby", but supports the idea babies go to heaven, but if a baby has not sinned the baby is in a save condition not needing salvation, so where does it say the baby was ever "lost"?
All have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God, correct?
 
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BobRyan

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Man is and always has been created in the image of God:

Man was created sinless, and in the image of God.

But man fell.

Gen. 9: 6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.

God "made man" in his image - speaks not of someone being born in sin today - but of God making Adam 6000 years ago.

Genesis 6 "all flesh has become corrupt".
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
 
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BobRyan

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Ps 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
...
The subject of this verse is NOT the state or constitution of David's nature as a sinner at, or before, his birth. The subject is, as the verse clearly states, the 'circumstances' of his conception- the sexual union which produced him was an act of sin,

Classic example of taking the text and sticking "not" in front of it by the author you quote - what is more the spin he puts on it is that it is sin for parents to conceive children. Or reworks Psalms 51 from being David lamenting his own sinful condition - to David complaining about his mother.

One thing is very obvious - These texts are not a case of David complaining about his mother. Rather he is speaking of his own condition.

As noted in my prior post - There is no point in Ps 51 where David turns from his own sin - and sinful condition - and instead makes the focus - his mother's sin.

Ps 51
Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness;
According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity
And cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
And my sin is ever before me.
4 Against You, You only, I have sinned
And done what is evil in Your sight,
So that You are justified when You speak
And blameless when You judge.
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
6 Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
7 Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.



Also note Romans 3 - - when Paul says no one seeks after God not even one - he is talking about the sinful nature "alone" because as an Apostle and Bible writer that Rom 3 statement is not even remotely true of Paul apart from his sinful nature.

Rom 3
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
 
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BobRyan

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David's mother was most likely the second wife of Jesse, the first wife being the mother of David's half-brothers. Jesse’s first wife's standing before the 'righteousness of the law', (her not having been married to, or the concubine of, a heathen king, as was David’s mother), would have been superior to that of David's mother, and explains why David's half-brothers, Jesse's other sons, would have felt they were superior to David, and why he would be accused of being prideful, for thinking he was as good as them....

David was the youngest and this the only reason ever given for disdain of him. What is more his brothers never mention David's mother as though his mother were some sort of a problem. And most importantly - look at the actual text of Psalms 51 as I have quoted it a few times - it is all about David lamenting his own sin - not the sins of his mother. And finally the article you quote argues for demeaning David's mother based on being the second wife -- NOT on "being the second wife who dared to have a son" . in fact in the Bible wives.. even second wives that have sons are always presented in a good light.
 
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bling

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Man was created sinless, and in the image of God.

But man fell.

Gen. 9: 6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.

God "made man" in his image - speaks not of someone being born in sin today - but of God making Adam 6000 years ago.

Genesis 6 "all flesh has become corrupt".
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.

It does not say “Adam and Eve made them corrupt”. Yes, all mature adults sin, but so did Adam and Eve with the nature they had.

Knowledge changed with Adam’s sin, but is knowledge bad in and of itself?
 
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bling

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Classic example of taking the text and sticking "not" in front of it by the author you quote - what is more the spin he puts on it is that it is sin for parents to conceive children. Or reworks Psalms 51 from being David lamenting his own sinful condition - to David complaining about his mother.

One thing is very obvious - These texts are not a case of David complaining about his mother. Rather he is speaking of his own condition.

As noted in my prior post - There is no point in Ps 51 where David turns from his own sin - and sinful condition - and instead makes the focus - his mother's sin.

Ps 51
Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness;
According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity
And cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
And my sin is ever before me.
4 Against You, You only, I have sinned
And done what is evil in Your sight,
So that You are justified when You speak
And blameless when You judge.
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
6 Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
7 Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.



Also note Romans 3 - - when Paul says no one seeks after God not even one - he is talking about the sinful nature "alone" because as an Apostle and Bible writer that Rom 3 statement is not even remotely true of Paul apart from his sinful nature.

Rom 3
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
David loved his mother?
The conception was not the problem, but was Jessie to marry her and not being comforted by his brothers and even Jessie?
 
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bling

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David was the youngest and this the only reason ever given for disdain of him. What is more his brothers never mention David's mother as though his mother were some sort of a problem. And most importantly - look at the actual text of Psalms 51 as I have quoted it a few times - it is all about David lamenting his own sin - not the sins of his mother. And finally the article you quote argues for demeaning David's mother based on being the second wife -- NOT on "being the second wife who dared to have a son" . in fact in the Bible wives.. even second wives that have sons are always presented in a good light.
You might read what Jewish scholars say on the subject also and their explanation of Psalms 51.
This is way off topic?
 
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YeshuaFan

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David loved his mother?
The conception was not the problem, but was Jessie to marry her and not being comforted by his brothers and even Jessie?
Jesus Holy Spirit conception allowed him to bypass having the sin nature!
 
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bling

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Better to stick with the Holy Spirit inspired version!
The inspired words of the Holy Spirit say David's problem with his situation has to do in part with David's mother at conception. These sources explain how that might be an issue.
 
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