Deconversion?

[Chaplain David]

What does QFT stand for?

Yeah it's quoted for truth. Internet speak like LOL. God bless.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I think back to the time before i actually acknowledged Jesus or God or thought much about it. In retrospect I can recognize that there was a presence over me shaping my path and guiding my life. My hope is that you will be able to see that down the road Criada about this present barren land you are travelling through. I am reading a book about francis of assisi but it is a novel about a pastor who loses his faith and goes on a spiritual pilgrimage with his catholic uncle. It seems pretty interesting and is called Chasing Francis by Ian Morgan Cron. I will let you know what I think of it when I am done. gg

 

[sk8Joyful]

Hi Sarah,
lots of sharing.. of Conversion-stories, & darkNights-of-the-soul too, here. - like how I was born into & raised in communism, where without having heard a christian, nor been inside a church, nor read a Bible; yet I had 2 spiritually-touching experiences in my youngest childhood (atheists can not explain). How would you Sarah explain? that I knew about God. - yet, this too came to be tested,
by a church no less
that to this day actively hides pedophiles, appeasing them w/ they're a "god in training" - Have you any idea how that damages nigh to destruction, a lovingly devoted & joyful mother such as me. How a church, in leadership plus as individuals, willy-nilly defends such satanic acts, almost killed me. - (talk about a harrowing 13+yrs!! stretch, of 'darkNight-of-the-soul'; that was 2/3 of it, & the other 1/3 was yet to come). And decimated, I stopped talking with Daddy, especially about His LOVING-scriptures. So Sarah, sadly I also understand such experiences.
And then,
refusing all contact with any church-congregations for so many years, I discovered this here 'cf': thinking, well lessee, where I could find a new church-home, amongst these people here. - Only to encounter certain (unnamed people) elevating themselves up, as police, jury & judge, and you guess what damage those actions cause. And one could just as easily mistake, the foolishness & certain diabolic acts, with "God, why are you SILENT" (where routinely His LOVE-for-us-each is denied, would God want to participate??) I'm 99.9% sure, I will never trust another 'church'.

But what about God? You see Sarah, He never did leave us each.
Instead, we left HIM. when we are deeply hurting inside, we may question God, for His presence, for His love, for His ALL; but He is ever faithful, ever patient, ever at our side, always... & forever... GOD LOVES YOU Sarah and may you come to ALLOW yourself, deep inside to feel LOVE so forgiving you too heal. God bless you sister

 

[suzybeezy]

I've been praying and thinkin' about you Sarah and just wanted to share this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7elxC8LXfzE

 

[DannyOcean]

I recently posted my 'deconversion' story in another thread. I'll see if I can dig it up for you, it seems like it would be relevant to the discussion.

 

[DannyOcean]

I was raised as a Catholic in a very Catholic family. My dad became a deacon when I was around 11 and has the equivalent of a degree in theology. Very smart guy. Always went to mass, always talked about the importance of jesus, etc. I was very into it all throughout my teen years. I even went on a bunch of teen retreats and ending up leading several retreats. I was very much a fervent teen Catholic. Looking back, I'm sure that my influence, witnessing, and enthusiasm for Catholic Christianity converted many teens.

When I went to college, I began to struggle with my faith. It began with small things, such as political stances all the christians around me seemed to be taking, and what I thought were ridiculous attacks on science. After that, all kinds of questions popped up. I began to question the philosophy of religion, and what I really 'knew'. The main problem for me was this: 'I've been raised Catholic and strongly believe in the Catholic god... but I also know that if I was born in Pakistan i would undoubtedly be a devout Muslim. How do I know which religion is real?'

I stopped going to church very often. I still wrestled with that one question of 'How can one determine which religion out of dozens (or hundreds) has the truth?' To me, there was no satisfactory answer. I gradually began to think of myself as a deist, who still believed in some sort of omniscient god but who didn't claim to know which form he took. I was firmly no longer 'religious' at that point. After thinking about deism for a while, I wondered whether I even believed any god existed. I did some research into the logical arguments for god's existence, and I did not find them to be logical or convincing. Gradually, belief in a god at all began to make less sense to me, and I simply dropped it. I consider myself an agnostic atheist, meaning that I don't deny the possibility of god outright but I also think it's pretty unlikely any gods exist.

That's pretty much it. I imagine it's fairly typical of the "lose your religion in college" story. The main reason I deconverted from Christianity is the impossibility of knowing that you're right. You feel right, and everyone you know makes such great points about your god being the only god. But the muslims, hindus, jews, sikhs, etc all are just as sure they are correct, and there's no real, concrete way to know who's right.

But your journey is your own, and no one else can travel it for you. I hope you find the answers you are looking for, and good luck.

Danny

 

[gratefulgrace]

I agree Danny each of us has our own journey. Often with religion we are indoctrinated so whatever we are exposed to becomes our truth. It could be radical islam or fundamental christianity or budhism. However I really do not think of true Christianity that way. It was kind of like that for me for my teen years and like you I had a time of questioning and challenging what I believed. I also wanted to be 'free' to make my own choices with out having to filter them through a list of perceived dos and don'ts. I think that is true for alot of young people. However i came to a point where I needed to get off the fence and decide what to do about it. I even tried getting back into it and doing things I had always been told were good to do such as read the bible pray attend church etc. However these things left me emptier than ever. It was only when I truly surrendered all my human effort and understanding of what was needed and came face to face with CHrist that I really had a true sense of 'communion' in the spiritual sense of the word. For me it was a supernatural experience where I felt God reached down to me. This has really cemented my faith. Yes I still wonder about peopole who grow up without the spiritual oppportunities to know Jesus like I did but they have their journey's too and many do find Yaweh God even coming from that background. A great book I read early on in my faith journey was called "Death of a Guru" http://www.southasianconnection.com...a-Guru---The-Story-of-Rabi-Maharaj/Page1.html
It is an awesome story of God transforming a life not touched at all by organized Christian religiion but steeped in Hinduism and destined to become a holy man due to the situation of his birth. I found it a fascinating read. gg

 

[DannyOcean]

GG, i've heard of that book before and heard good things. I'll have to pick it up sometime.

 

[sk8Joyful]

a supernatural experience where I felt God reached down to me. This has really cemented my faith.

True!

 

[Philothei]

That's pretty much it. I imagine it's fairly typical of the "lose your religion in college" story. The main reason I deconverted from Christianity is the impossibility of knowing that you're right. You feel right, and everyone you know makes such great points about your god being the only god. But the muslims, hindus, jews, sikhs, etc all are just as sure they are correct, and there's no real, concrete way to know who's right.

The impossibility of knowing that you are rght to what? The possibility that we know we are not right? So if you "don't know" who is and who is not it is just a jerk knee response to toss it all out instead of believing? I think not. There is revelation of what is HOLY/God in all religions for sure. God manifested himself to the world throughout all religions. Christianity being the one that the same God sent His Son to be revealing it all. That is the difference ....The revelation in all other religions stops there... It is what we have from God connecting to us from up high... But in Christianity it is what we recieve from HIM who is the TRuth and the Way sent from Him who sits up high. That is the reason Christianity is unique. We are believing in God who cares and personally is involved with us not a far away Creator... On he other hand all religions have a glimpse of Him. And it would be a shame to close ourselves in all religion just because it just does not fit our atheistic life style as it inconveniences our technologically ridden society.

 

[sk8Joyful]

the reason Christianity is unique. We are believing in God who cares and personally is involved with us, not a far away Creator...

also true, this "God who cares and personally is involved with us"

 

[DannyOcean]

The impossibility of knowing that you are rght to what? The possibility that we know we are not right? So if you "don't know" who is and who is not it is just a jerk knee response to toss it all out instead of believing? I think not. There is revelation of what is HOLY/God in all religions for sure. God manifested himself to the world throughout all religions. Christianity being the one that the same God sent His Son to be revealing it all. That is the difference ....The revelation in all other religions stops there... It is what we have from God connecting to us from up high... But in Christianity it is what we recieve from HIM who is the TRuth and the Way sent from Him who sits up high. That is the reason Christianity is unique. We are believing in God who cares and personally is involved with us not a far away Creator... On he other hand all religions have a glimpse of Him. And it would be a shame to close ourselves in all religion just because it just does not fit our atheistic life style as it inconveniences our technologically ridden society.

I don't want to debate my atheism with you, but you're missing the point. Of course you claim that Christianity is the truest religion. You're a Christian. If I asked a Muslim, he would argue just as fervently that Islam is the truest religion for a great number of reasons. He would probably talk about how Allah cares for him and personally helps him. The same for any religion.

There is revelation of what is HOLY/God in all religions for sure. God manifested himself to the world throughout all religions.

This presupposes the existence of a god.

Finally, it's insulting when you bring up an 'atheistic lifestyle' as though I chose not to believe in a god because i am selfish and want to do whatever I want. I don't believe there is a god for logical and philosophical reasons, so let's please leave those kinds of insinuations out of the discussion.

 

[Philothei]

I am not debating with you I am explaining how Christianity and Theism 'fit' into the rational thinking of why and how God exists. Atheism is as irrational since there is not evidence for the opposite position either. This is not a judgment to those who do not beleive in God as much it is not to those who do.

 

[Criada]

I have no desire to live an 'atheistic lifestyle'... nor do I even know what that means.
I am trying, as far as I am able, to follow the teachings of Jesus... whoever he was, what he is recorded as teaching makes a great deal of sense, with or without God.

 

[Eudaimonist]

And it would be a shame to close ourselves in all religion just because it just does not fit our atheistic life style as it inconveniences our technologically ridden society.

I don't know any atheist who is an atheist because religion conflicts with some adopted "lifestyle". They are atheists because the claim that God exists conflicts with their rational judgment. They don't find the claim persuasive.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Jo1]

(((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))) dont give up my beloved friend. love u Joxxx

 

[Eudaimonist]

I am not debating with you I am explaining how Christianity and Theism 'fit' into the rational thinking of why and how God exists. Atheism is as irrational since there is not evidence for the opposite position either.

There doesn't need to be evidence for atheism any more than there needs to be evidence that leprechauns don't exist. You are rationally entitled to lack belief in anything for which there is no convincing positive evidence.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[peaceful soul]

A religion is a system of practices or beliefs which are highly valued or considered sacred. So yes, Christianity is a religion. If it isn't, neither is Islam, Judaism, or any other.

Your definition of religion makes everyone's beliefs become a religion. Perhaps you may want to redefine your definition a bit. Christianity is not a faith based upon rituals and rules per normal concepts of religion; but, it is a personal relationship with God. That is why it is not a religion per the usual language. We don't have lists of dos and don'ts to follow. We follow by spirit and not rules per se. I hope that you understand. It is the personal relationship that separates us from the normative religious perspective. Our faith is not directly related to cultural and social norms where there are stringent rules to follow.

 

[Criada]

And that is what makes it so very hard to keep going when the relationship isn't there any longer... it isn't a religion you can just go on practicing and hope to get through. It is a relationship, and when that goes, when you can't convince yourself that it is two-way any longer, then the whole thing just falls down...

 

[Sojourner1]

Hi Criada
I've been reading your thread and trying to think of what to say that would help. I realized that when I was on the backside of the desert there wasn't much anyone could tell me that would really help. Being in the desert isn't much fun, but when I finally got out of the desert I found that being there had strengthened my faith and I was closer to God as a result.

There was one book that I read when God decided to be silent and hide from me. The book is called "Reaching for the Invisible God" by Philip Yancey. This is hands down the best book I have ever read about seeking after God when you feel that He isn't really there. The quote that starts chapter one is "Oh God, I don't love you, I don't even want to love you, but I want to want to love you!" by Teresa of Avila.

If you decide to read this book I think you will be very glad that you did. I know you have probably been given a long list of books to read, but this one really is different. If you want to read it and discuss it as you read it I would be glad to read it at the same time. Anyone else who wants to join in would be welcome as well. We could have a discussion thread on the book (an online book club so to speak).