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Decision Making

Discussion in 'Married Couples' started by Lucky9, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Lucky9

    Lucky9 New Member

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    Hello, I am curious how married couples deal with decision making in their marriage.

    I know what the bible says about the husband being the leader and ultimately, at an impasse, the decision maker...but I'm curious what decisions does he decide? All of them, at every impasse, no matter how big or small the issue?

    Or is it just the big ones, that affect the finances or the family as a whole?

    The reason I ask is this, and let me know in your family, what you would do, please.

    My niece is getting married @ New Years in another state. My whole family is going (my parents, my brother, etc). My 3 kids and I would love to go. But my husband is unable to get the time off work. My kids will be on school break and I have the time I can take off. My parents offered to pay for all expenses, except food, which we'd be paying for no matter where we were.

    My husband does not want us to go. Of course, he hasn't given me his answer yet....and it's a touchy subject...but he somehow has a problem with us going. At first it was financial, until he found out my parents were covering costs. Then it became about church, because he's Catholic and didn't want the kids missing any Days of Obligation. But I explained we are traveling after and will be home before, any of those Days. And my nieces wedding is on Sunday in a Catholic church and I already called my husbands Priest and explained the situation and he told me since the wedding is in a Catholic church and will have a mass, the Sunday mass obligation is covered.

    I see no logical reason why my husband would not be ok with us going on this trip. He knows it's a time for the kids and I to get out of the house and get to travel, something we normally couldn't afford to do. And since my husband doesn't travel well, and doesn't really groove well with my family, it would be a nice getaway and time apart.

    If tables were turned, while I would not like being left behind, if I knew my husband and kids really wanted to go and his family was paying for all expenses, I wouldn't stop them from going and having a good time and I'd actually appreciate the "me time".

    I feel like because he doesn't want me to go and because he isn't able to go (jealous?) that he wants to keep us from going, because of his own personal reasons. My kids keep telling me that he tells them, he's probalbly going to say no to the trip, which infuriates me, because it's like he holds it over our heads and the kids don't need to be involved in our discussion. Anytime there is any tension over any issue, and he throws in my face, "Oh great, I can't wait until we talk about the wedding trip"....I don't know what he's waiting for or mulling over, but in my honest opinion, it should be as simple as, Can we afford the costs for food? Do we have the time to take off? Is our schedule open to do this? Are you really wanting to go? Do I trust you? If the answer is yes to these, then I do not see why it is something to mull over for 6 days, let alone 6 months.

    And quite honestly, I'm becoming resentful and a great animosity is growing against my husband because I feel like his "decision making" is more of a lordship over me, because of how he handles any decisions he makes. He makes it a big ordeal, thumping me (not literally) over the head with the Bible and how it says husband take the lead, and wives must submit, yadda yadda... And to add in, he's a very selfish person, and has been our entire 20 years together...so I don't believe his decisions are Godly, or selfless, at all, I truly think he makes these decisions for what HE wants, what HE needs and what HE desires, more than anything. And how do I prove that? How do I get around that, while still doing my duty as a submissive wife? Ugh...I'm frustrated. Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
     
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  2. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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  3. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    I’m really sorry you are going through this. It’s a perfect example of why the “headship” doctrine is wrong, and was really just another tool men used to maintain power. Your husband is no more wise or selfless than you, yet he gets to make the decisions. Being able to “get away” with his selfishness has probably stunted his maturing and spiritual growth. He could probably benefit from you holding him accountable and challenging some of his decisions.
     
  4. Lucky9

    Lucky9 New Member

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    Oh, I have challenged him and it ends up turning into more Bible thumping over my head because wives are supposed to be silent and don't forget the one about, it's better to crouch on the roof of a house, than have a quarreling wife....

    I find it interesting how he pulls these tidbits out of the Bible, but refuses to read, or follow, how husbands must love wives as Christ loves the church.

    He wasn't always this way...to be honest, he got more chauvenistic since he became an SSPX Catholic. He claims he's not chauvenistic, but his actions contradict his words. While he doesn't expect me to be in the kitchen all day, he holds the whole "Patriarch, Husbands are Leaders" mantra up high and demands I submit, because I'm his wife. And when we have disagreements, which are often, because it literally feels like we disagree on almost everything now adays, no matter how small or minute the topic is, he is always the first to claim "decision making" authority. Now, I get marriage requires someone to take the headship....I totally understand what the Bible says on that, and I agree with it. But it's really really hard to submit to someone when they are literally acting like a superior over you, in doing so. And it's even harder when you can't see any sign of Godly influence, whatsoever in that decision. I've told him as much, but all he does is deny that's what's happening and continues doing it.
     
  5. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    Well, IMO what you are describing is what happens when you give people unearned, unnecessary power over others. My husband and i are a team and sometimes he leads, sometimes I lead, but most of the time we collaborate. We have been able to grow together emotionally and spiritually. If you want to be in a headship marriage that is your choice, but I’ve never seen one where the wife was truly happy - unless they said it was a headship marriage but in reality the husband let the wife share the leadership role.
     
  6. snoochface

    snoochface Meet the new boss -- same as the old boss.

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    Where in the Bible does it say that the husband is to make all of the decisions, or at least the impasse ones? Chapter and verse please.
     
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  7. jacks

    jacks Er Victus Supporter

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    Go to the wedding, you don't need your husband's permission. This has nothing to do with the "man being head of the household". My wife and I make most decisions jointly or in certain matters one of us is better able to make the decision or it means more to one of us. (For example I would never over ride my wife's choice on how to decorate the house. Neither would she tell me how to fix the car.)
    My wife went with her family on a cruise once and I couldn't go because of work. to be honest I was a bit envious (I've never been on a cruise) and not really thrilled she was going, but it was an opportunity for her and it wouldn't have been "Christlike" or even basically nice to stop her from going just because I couldn't.
    Getting him to accept it gracefully may be a challenge. Maybe you could tell him how your family would really like you and the kids to be there and it means a lot to your niece. Let him know you wish he could come and suggest maybe he take a couple of days off work. Or maybe plan another short trip he would like to go on after you get back. Praying for you.
     
  8. Mel333

    Mel333 Active Member

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    Yeah, it's not good. I'd just go on the trip. If you want to go just go. Wouldn't even quarrel about it.

    Unfortunately there is strife in the marriage. Proper leadership doesn't let that happen. He's being controlling.

    Leadership is about bringing the family together, listening and wanting the best for everyone with the outcome. They also communicate and sit down to explain the reasons.

    For instance, he could have said, "I don't want to go but you guys go. I love you honey and the kids and want you to have a good time but I don't want to go on this occasion". OR "We simply don't have the funds to go but how about we do something else special for the holidays?"
    (Leadership example- involves compromising and love)

    Rather than " I don't want to go, therefore you all cannot go even if its paid for. I'm in charge. You're a nagging wife if you keep asking me. Stop being insubordinate to my authority. I'm in charge and the bible says so. This is about me and you obeying my decisions which are final."
    (Controlling Leadership example - involves selfishness and power)
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  9. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    I must say that improper employment of a biblical principle does not negate the teachings of scripture. While there are serious issues, by the sounds, let's not dismiss God's order. I have been married 33 years and always endeavour to empower my wife through encouragement and respect. What I look for, is what God wants to do, and we come to that together. Ultimately I carry the can, but often see Him guiding us forward through her sensitivities.
    I would get folk praying for the marriage, prayer has a way of turning things around. Always forgive, always love, it is a high calling with some cost, but hey our faith was never to be a 'cake walk'
     
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  10. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    Lucky9, I had given you quite a bit of advice in your previous thread about this dynamic.

    I would still point you back to that advice. Can you re-read my posts on your "Not sure how to resolve this..." thread and comment on it?
     
  11. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi @Lucky9, it's a shame that you two are not in the same church/under the same pastor. Of course, it sounds like your husband hasn't revealed the actual reason that he doesn't want you and the kids to go yet, so counsel from a pastor and/or a priest wouldn't do much good until you (and they) know that.

    We husbands have been placed in the position of "spiritual" head of the household, but that headship hardly means that wives don't have a say in things. We are, in fact, called to love you (wives) more than we love ourselves/our own bodies & lives, since the headship doctrine tells us to lay our lives down for you, if necessary, for the sake of your well-being .. e.g. Ephesians 5:22-33 (take note of how many more verses there are in that passage that are meant as instruction for husbands regarding their wives than there are for wives regarding their husbands).

    There is no problem with Biblical headship doctrine as it is laid out for us in the Bible, but there is a problem if it is being improperly interpreted and applied, and thereby abused. It also sounds like he is abusing another doctrine called the Golden Rule as well .. Matthew 7:12. If you'd like to discuss the role of the husband as the head of the household a bit more, its scope and what it means, I'd be happy to do so.

    If I was you, I'd immediately talk 1. to your pastor (by yourself or with your husband) and get his counsel about everything that's going on, and 2. to his priest again (unless you think he'd listen to your pastor?) and receive some additional counseling from him too, because it sounds to me like you may have a much larger problem that needs to be addressed than simply this one trip that he doesn't want you to go on. They can also help you come to a better understanding of your husband's role in your marriage, and yours as well :)

    In the meantime, maybe you could try to get to the bottom of this, IOW, to the "real" reason that he doesn't want you and the kids to go to the wedding (always remembering that honey traps far more flies than vinegar could ever hope to ;)).

    @Mel333 may be correct unfortunately, that he is simply being controlling, and if that's the case, then you are most likely back to needing your pastor and/or his priest to help get things straightened out for the both of you. (does your husband have any reason to feel insecure about you & your marriage in general, or about you guys going to this wedding, in particular?)

    Praying for you, your husband, your marriage, and this particular situation too.

    --David
    p.s. - remember that while you are to submit to your husband's spiritual authority, he needs to submit to the authority of his priest/his church, and ultimately, to the authority of Christ. If he is using God's word as a "weapon" in an attempt to get what he thinks he wants and/or to control you, then they will set him straight (so pray that he will listen).

    Hebrews 13
    17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  12. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    I don’t believe all of scripture is the word of god. The doctrine of male headship has caused untold abuse and suffering. Women right here on CF have reported abuse under a headship marriage and have been told to stay with the abuser and submit.
     
  13. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi Sparagmos, how do you go about deciding which parts of the Bible are God's breathed words, and which parts are not?

    Thanks!

    --David
     
  14. snoochface

    snoochface Meet the new boss -- same as the old boss.

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    So because people misuse a scripture for abusive or even just selfish purposes, it's not God's word? How do you know the resurrection is true then?
     
  15. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    Did you know that the word HEADSHIP is not in the Bible?

    If you study out 1 Cor 11:3, driving the idea of headship to its logical conclusions, you'll come to realize that the idea of HEADSHIP is a fallacy and does not agree with the rest of Scripture.

    1 Cor 11:3: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

    BTW, the ESV wrongfully uses the word "husband" in the verse. Many other versions simply use the word "man". In order for this verse to work with the rest of Scripture, the only way that verse works is if andros is translated as man, not husband.
     
  16. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    I judge the tree by its fruit. How do you decide?
     
  17. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    I don’t. But the teachings of Jesus are valuable whether or not he was resurrected.
     
  18. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi again Sparagmos, they may be of some value on the horizontal (human to human) plane, but if He did not rise from the dead, then His teachings are of no value whatsoever concerning salvation.

    1 Corinthians 15
    17 If Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

    I have to agree with @snoochface as well. Just because a Biblical doctrine is not to your liking and/or is not getting the kind of results that you think it should, doesn't mean that you throw the baby out with the bathwater. If we did, we'd have to throw everything out, beginning with the Decalogue (which has hasn't been able to stop all kinds of people from worshiping false gods, murdering, stealing, coveting, cheating on their wives or husbands, mistreating their parents, etc. over millennia).

    The fact that they sin against God and His word doesn't make it any less His word, does it? It is His word which continues to correctly diagnose our sinfulness, and that from the time it was written all the way up to this very moment (which is one of the many ways that we know that the Bible is God's word, BTW).

    So we don't get rid of God's word when it doesn't seem to be working, rather, we apply it by pointing out what it says, to help people know that they are sinning against God, and (hopefully then) to help them understand why they need to turn to Him and seek His forgiveness (and/or His salvation) .. Galatians 3:24.

    --David
    p.s. - as far as the Bible goes, there are MANY reasons that I choose to accept all of it as God's "breathed" words, objectively speaking (though the subjective reasons that I do .. the indwelling HS's teaching and guidance, for instance .. 1 Corinthians 2:12-16 .. are more important, actually). First and foremost (speaking objectively), I believe that God, who brought space/time (and everything that we find within it) into existence, had/has the ability to get His entire word to us (because if redemption and salvation are a matter of "knowing" Him .. John 17:3, and they are, then the Bible and the words that it contains are, BY FAR, the most important words that were ever written).

    There are also things like the great diversity that we find in the human authorship of the OT/NT (40 human authors, if memory serves), and that over a period of more than 1,500 years (most of the authors did not know each another), and yet there is incredible unity among all of the messages they've left us, be they theological, historical, or ethical.

    There is MUCH more, but if you'd like to discuss it, I think you'd better start a different thread for that specific purpose. If you do, please PM me and let me know so that I can join. Thanks :)
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  19. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi Endeavourer, the word "headship" may not be in the Bible ("Trinity" is not either), but the concept is taught both subjectively and objectively. Along with the example that you already posited for us, 1 Corinthians 11:3, here are some other examples of the latter.

    Ephesians 5
    22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
    23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
    24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.
    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,
    26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
    27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
    28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
    29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,
    30 because we are members of His body.
    31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
    32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
    33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

    Philippians 1
    22 God placed all things under His [Jesus'] feet and appointed Him to be head over everything for the church.

    1 Peter 3
    1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
    2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.
    3 Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses;
    4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
    5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
    6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

    --David
     
  20. christine40

    christine40 Well-Known Member

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    how did you solve this last year?
    did you go to family reunion or not?
    seems a similar situation


    Husband and Wife Disagreement



    if you went last year to reunion, you can say everything turned out fine and it will be fine now, also
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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