Debunking Flat Earth

[JacksBratt]

Since this isn't a biblical test but rather a question of testing scientifically, how do flat-earthers propose to set up their research? What kind of research are they wanting to do and by what criteria and recognized variables will they construct their tests?

May I suggest that you are actually the one that must prove your model... If you present something as truth, such as a globe earth, and someone challenges this... should you not prove your view?

People are saying, for reasons of their own, that the earth is Flat... you cannot just say .."you're wrong" without proving that your view is correct.

So, as I asked before, to another poster here, what proof do you have of a spinning globe?

 

[JacksBratt]

So that mean you are going to do the test with the scale and calibrated weight at different latitudes?

I don't believe that I have the hardware, meaning weigh scale, of the necessary accuracy to carry out such a test.

How do you explain the fact that objects are viewed, photographed and videoed, repeatedly, well beyond distances that they should be able to be seen. This is testable, repeatable and observable to people with very little necessary hardware.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I agree. We should teach kids how to think, reason, deduce conclusions. However, telling someone what is truth.. and having them regurgitate it on an exam.... is not teaching them anything.. It is storing data in a hard drive... only to be accessed later.
Our kids are indoctrinated with what academia wants them to think... Basically brainwashed...

They are not brainwashed. They are taught facts but not taught really how to determine for themselves if those facts are true. Why and when you should believe something needs to be better taught. Public school tries to do this but they fail for many reasons especially in places where religion is dominant.

If you can control the children... you can control the future...

How dare anyone indicate that something is different than the what we were told.

That is what Christianity does. Tells children what to believe under a threat of hell if they don't believe.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

May I suggest that you are actually the one that must prove your model... If you present something as truth, such as a globe earth, and someone challenges this... should you not prove your view?

People are saying, for reasons of their own, that the earth is Flat... you cannot just say .."you're wrong" without proving that your view is correct.

So, as I asked before, to another poster here, what proof do you have of a spinning globe?

I'm sorry, but you're the one who said to me that I could be bowled over by what 'new insights' flat-earthers have found. So no, the onus is ON YOU! You make the claim that X is the case, therefore YOU need to back up that claim, especially since it's a minority view!

 

[46AND2]

So, you think a minority view among Christians can swing around and win the day against not only atheists but also against a majority view held among other Christians all living in the same society?

It could if flat-earth arguments remained unchallenged. And that was the point of this line of reasoning, was it not? Why give the Flat Earthers the time of day? Who cares what they believe? Would ignoring them not give the impression to some, perhaps many, that we could not counter them?

As it is, I've met quite a few people who are maybe not flat-earthers themselves, but are not as certain of a globe as they once were. A decade ago, I'd have never encountered that.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

People are saying, for reasons of their own, that the earth is Flat... you cannot just say .."you're wrong" without proving that your view is correct.

This is untrue. We can know something is not true without knowing what the truth is. Direct and sufficient evidence contradicts a flat earth, that is sufficient to say it is not true without knowing what the shape of the earth actually is.

 

[JacksBratt]

Sure they would. If they can get enough people to believe that scientists are so imbecilic that they can't even get the shape of the earth correct, that could have far-reaching consequences. What other areas are they "WAY OFF" on?

Oh, heaven forbid that IF you prove that scientists are wrong... on one issue, that they may be wrong on others.... certainly cannot have that... can we?


That is just the point... If we are fed a bunch of lies.. to the extent that intelligent laymen can convince others that what science has proposed is incorrect... and in fact erroneous.... should the scientists be held as people of knowledge?

Or should we then question them even more.. until all the nonsense is exposed for what it is..

Truth is a very scarce thing these days.. Who do you trust? What is real news? What is reality of the world in all kinds of areas?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It could if flat-earth arguments remained unchallenged. And that was the point of this line of reasoning, was it not? Why give the Flat Earthers the time of day? Who cares what they believe? Would ignoring them not give the impression to some, perhaps many, that we could not counter them?

As it is, I've met quite a few people who are maybe not flat-earthers themselves, but are not as certain of a globe as they once were. A decade ago, I'd have never encountered that.

If you're seeing something here now that wasn't here a decade ago, then maybe it's that something that you'll need to concentrate most on, right? Christian faith has been here for over 20 centuries now, and Christians who believe in a round earth have been around for well over 10 years, so it sounds to me as if the variable isn't Christianity but ... some other social and educational phenomenon that needs to be considered.

 

[JacksBratt]

It could if flat-earth arguments remained unchallenged. And that was the point of this line of reasoning, was it not? Why give the Flat Earthers the time of day? Who cares what they believe? Would ignoring them not give the impression to some, perhaps many, that we could not counter them?

As it is, I've met quite a few people who are maybe not flat-earthers themselves, but are not as certain of a globe as they once were. A decade ago, I'd have never encountered that.

So, you would rather that the "globe model" be "unchallenged?

See, you cannot state something as truth and condemn people for challenging it.

In all reality.. it is the push back that the FE model is getting that is the very thing that causes some to believe that the FE crowd has hit a nerve... They are onto something.


People who are hiding something will always fight hard to keep it concealed.

 

[JacksBratt]

This is untrue. We can know something is not true without knowing what the truth is. Direct and sufficient evidence contradicts a flat earth, that is sufficient to say it is not true without knowing what the shape of the earth actually is.

And, what is this direct and sufficient evidence?

 

[46AND2]

I don't believe that I have the hardware, meaning weigh scale, of the necessary accuracy to carry out such a test.

The video I showed you provided links to exactly where you can get the items on amazon. They are cheap.

How do you explain the fact that objects are viewed, photographed and videoed, repeatedly, well beyond distances that they should be able to be seen. This is testable, repeatable and observable to people with very little necessary hardware.

They AREN'T "well beyond distances that should be seen."

At best, they are only visible SOMETIMES under the right refraction conditions because they are RIGHT AT THE limit of what can be seen over the curve.

Show me a picture of a several hundred foot tall island (say, less than 1000 feet) from 100 miles away from a 10 foot elevation vantage point.

No amount of refraction can account for this. And we know that cameras can image things from that far away, because we have pictures from twice that far.

EVERY single time, flat earthers are manipulating circumstances to make it seem like the target is too far away, when in reality, it is PERFECTLY reasonable on a globe earth.

There you go, I gave you two tests (in bold) that you can perform yourself that will show you the earth is a globe.

 

[46AND2]

So, you would rather that the "globe model" be "unchallenged?

See, you cannot state something as truth and condemn people for challenging it.

In all reality.. it is the push back that the FE model is getting that is the very thing that causes some to believe that the FE crowd has hit a nerve... They are onto something.


People who are hiding something will always fight hard to keep it concealed.

No. I don't care if the globe model is challenged. Cause it meets the challenge. Every time. Because...globe.

 

[JacksBratt]

They are not brainwashed. They are taught facts but not taught really how to determine for themselves if those facts are true. Why and when you should believe something needs to be better taught. Public school tries to do this but they fail for many reasons especially in places where religion is dominant.

If you are taught that something is fact but not taught how to determine it... how do you know that you are not brainwashed?

If someone comes along and contradicts that fact... and you argue it without evidence that you yourself have seen determined... then you are just a hard drive accessing data... true or not.

That is what Christianity does. Tells children what to believe under a threat of hell if they don't believe.

Theologically that is one way to look at it... Sad that this is your approach.

However, if hell is real... It becomes the act of saving one from doom..
If hell is real and you let someone go to their grave, knowing their fate... what does that make you?

If you don't believe Hell to be real... whats the issue?

If I, as a Christian, die and there is no after life.... What have I lost?

So, I lived a life where I treated everyone with kindness and generosity. Following a mentor that I believe has saved me from an awful eternity by His actions.... How have I lost anything.

If someone convinced me of this supposed lie... How have they harmed me?

If I knowingly allow someone to go to eternal death.. without doing anything... what does THAT make me?

 

[JacksBratt]

No. I don't care if the globe model is challenged. Cause it meets the challenge. Every time. Because...globe.

Here's a challenge... show me the curve... without a fish eye lens.....
Show me an experiment that can prove that we spin.
Show me an experiment that shows that we move at all.

 

[46AND2]

Here's a challenge... show me the curve... without a fish eye lens.....
Show me an experiment that can prove that we spin.
Show me an experiment that shows that we move at all.

I already have! Scale. Weights. Remember?

Spend the $25, a bit of gas money, and do the experiment yourself. Simple.

 

[46AND2]

Here's a challenge... show me the curve... without a fish eye lens.....
Show me an experiment that can prove that we spin.
Show me an experiment that shows that we move at all.

Or watch Beyond the Curve, where flat-earthers do an experiment that proves...."A 15 degree per hour drift...interesting."

 

[46AND2]

Here's a challenge... show me the curve... without a fish eye lens.....
Show me an experiment that can prove that we spin.
Show me an experiment that shows that we move at all.

Actually, I'm going to Phoenix for Thanksgiving (from WA).

Would it be worth my time to perform the weight/scale experiment for you, or would you just shrug off the results?

 

[Yekcidmij]

I believe that in a thread on this site, many examples were given for the testing of missiles and other armaments, including jets and rockets... that NASA always did it's calculations based on a still and flat earth.

So... why am I able to use spherical trigonometry to take a celestial fix (and hence navigate on transocean voyages)? And why won't Cartesian plane trigonometry work? In your world, it should be opposite. A great circle route should never navigate one from point A to point B on transocean transits.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If you are taught that something is fact but not taught how to determine it... how do you know that you are not brainwashed?

If someone comes along and contradicts that fact... and you argue it without evidence that you yourself have seen determined... then you are just a hard drive accessing data... true or not.

This is not an accurate depiction of public school.

This is the definition of brainwash:

make (someone) adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure.

This can apply to religion and flat earth, not public school. What radically different beliefs does public school teach?

Theologically that is one way to look at it... Sad that this is your approach.

However, if hell is real... It becomes the act of saving one from doom..
If hell is real and you let someone go to their grave, knowing their fate... what does that make you?

Which hell? Maybe you saved them form the Christian hell but what of Muslim hell? How did you determine which hell is real?

If you don't believe Hell to be real... whats the issue?

My issue is that Christians teach children that god is going to send you to hell because you told a lie etc. Most children don't know how to know if this is real or not, they cannot make their own decision on the subject. This causes anguish for many children and into adulthood. Many atheists that were thought hell as a child still have issues with that teaching because it is so horrible and evil. If this is true why not let them make that decision when they are adults?

If I, as a Christian, die and there is no after life.... What have I lost?

You lost a life believing what was true.

So, I lived a life where I treated everyone with kindness and generosity. Following a mentor that I believe has saved me from an awful eternity by His actions.... How have I lost anything.

That is for you to decide for yourself not for children or others.

If someone convinced me of this supposed lie... How have they harmed me?

That is up to you to decide. But we make decisions based on our beliefs. You don't just believe something alone. Your beliefs affect society and fairness for others. Look at the opposition to gay marriage. That was mostly from Christians and religious beliefs and people were denied marriage based on a religious idea. Believing things without evidence can be dangerous.

If I knowingly allow someone to go to eternal death.. without doing anything... what does THAT make me?

What is your evidence hell exists? If you cannot give evidence that hell exists then you are harming others by telling them it is true. Your loving God would torture you forever for telling a lie unless you allow another to be tortured in your place and god says he is merciful and gives grace. Just think about that for a minute.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This can apply to religion and flat earth, not public school. What radically different beliefs does public school teach?

It applies to public school almost everyplace.


Most teach children that to object what the government approves of and protects,
is wrong, without even allowing the lies to be exposed....
and those who bring the light upon something that is being protected become targets of the government , corporations, etc etc etc ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What is your evidence hell exists?

< shrugs > Sorry it got so complicated (the myths about 'hell' the last many centuries).

Have you ever seen A GRAVE? (where someone is buried)

If so, that matches many of the places in the Bible where "hell" is printed. It does not mean the same in the original as it does in English Bibles nor in Western ways of thinking.