Debunking Flat Earth

[Strathos]

When I first encountered the modern flat earth movement, I thought it was a trolling attempt to make Christians look bad.

Then I realized that there are many Christians who are series about it, which is just embarrassing.

 

[JacksBratt]

Amazing, something that the ball earth model says would be barely visible is barely visible.

If the earth is flat, why not take a picture of Everest? Or Hawaii from any spot around the rim of the Pacific? Hawaii should make a great target. It might be in sunshine while the camera was in darkness in Japan or Peru. It would be like a lighthouse!

This has been explained... ad nauseam.

 

[JacksBratt]

When I first encountered the modern flat earth movement, I thought it was a trolling attempt to make Christians look bad.

Then I realized that there are many Christians who are series about it, which is just embarrassing.

Not to mention (and let me stress that I do NOT suggest using the FE as a tool for teaching salvation... so let's not go there... again)
BUT... there are numerous people who were strong atheists... who heard of the FE.... were convinced of the FE and then came to Christ..... based on their belief in the FE...
You cannot deny this simple truth.. a FE model amplifies the need for a creator, intelligent designer and demolishes the basic Atheistic Darwinian evolutionary house of cards.

If it's true that we live in an enclosed, stationary, snow globe world.... the bible still makes sense.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes, it is for real.
Every once and a while I see a new face here who is dumbfounded by the idea that some believe in a Flat earth..

I certainly was... Until I started looking at their argument. They have some very good points.

Remember... every single person who believes in the FE... started with the same reaction.. " Ya, right, what nonsense".

You could stop there but many of these FE'ers have "went outside" and did their own research, not taking the words of others as the "truth".. They are not unintelligent. Nor are they people with an agenda. For the most part they are searching for truth.

You do know that there has been FE conferences in the US, Canada and an international Flat earth conference, right?

Also, "the flat earth society" is not a group to be taken an valid.. Sad, but true, most FE'ers will not recognize the "Flat earth Society" as reputable.

I really can't believe that anyone can do legitimate science, incorporate logic and math into his overall analysis, and come out the other side as a Flat-earther. I have to chuckle at the very idea of it all ...

 

[JacksBratt]

I really can't believe that anyone can do legitimate science, incorporate logic and math into his overall analysis, and come out the other side as a Flat-earther. I have to chuckle at the very idea of it all ...

Well, be prepared to be enlightened... That is if you really want to look into it. If you have an open mind or just want to stop at "that's stupid"....

This rabbit hole can go deep... so.... strap in or bail....

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well, be prepared to be enlightened... That is if you really want to look into it. If you have an open mind or just want to stop at "that's stupid"....

This rabbit hole can go deep... so.... strap in or bail....

Being that one of my majors in college was in philosophy, I'm guessing that the rabbit-hole you mention isn't really of the sort that Lewis Carroll conceived of in his Alice in Wonderland books. It's probably more of a pot-hole in the road of human rationality than anything else.

Of course, I might have some built in bias being that I was raised in the family that I was raised in ......

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Ah! So, you're more concerned about 'policy,' then?

I am concerned about how these ideas affect the society I live in. I don't care too much what you believe but I do care how it affects everyone else. It affects fiscal and social policy that affects everyone. People believing things without or against evidence means they don't have a true view of reality. This can be dangerous for example people against vaccinations.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Moreover, are you saying that there is indeed a rise in those U.S. citizens who believe in a flat-earth, or are you saying that there is a rising trend regarding interest about the topic of the idea of a flat-earth?

The last poll I saw was that there are more flat earth believers than there was 10 years ago and 66% of 18-24 yo's are sure that the earth is spherical.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Well, be prepared to be enlightened... That is if you really want to look into it. If you have an open mind or just want to stop at "that's stupid"....

This rabbit hole can go deep... so.... strap in or bail....

Speaking of math, my question about spherical trig from early in the thread still hasn't been addressed (a previous flat-earther on another thread concluded that he didn't need math). Why am I able to use spherical trigonometry to take a celestial fix (and hence navigate on transocean voyages)? And why won't Cartesian plane trigonometry work? In your world, it should be opposite. A great circle route should never navigate one from point A to point B on transocean transits.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

So..... do you think that you should be able to control the things that people believe in? Control what they say? Control their ideas and views? Stop anything that you don't think is true?

That... my friend... is a slippery slope.

I NEVER said this. I believe what I said was we should teach people how to think. That is different than teaching them what to think. I believe our education system is not teaching good epistemology and skepticism that is required to determine truth for yourself.

 

[JacksBratt]

Being that one of my majors in college was in philosophy, I'm guessing that the rabbit-hole you mention isn't really of the sort that Lewis Carroll conceived of in his Alice in Wonderland books. It's probably more of a pot-hole in the road of human rationality than anything else.

Of course, I might have some built in bias being that I was raised in the family that I was raised in ......

Yes, you are probably right. It's the "bias" that is the issue...

I don't see the search for truth, in any topic, as a "pot-hole" in the road of human rationality. If this were the case, innovation would stall and humanity would lose.

We must always test everything.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes, you are probably right. It's the "bias" that is the issue...

I don't see the search for truth, in any topic, as a "pot-hole" in the road of human rationality. If this were the case, innovation would stall and humanity would lose.

We must always test everything.

Since this isn't a biblical test but rather a question of testing scientifically, how do flat-earthers propose to set up their research? What kind of research are they wanting to do and by what criteria and recognized variables will they construct their tests?

 

[46AND2]

We must always test everything.

So that mean you are going to do the test with the scale and calibrated weight at different latitudes?

 

[JacksBratt]

I am concerned about how these ideas affect the society I live in. I don't care too much what you believe but I do care how it affects everyone else. It affects fiscal and social policy that affects everyone. People believing things without or against evidence means they don't have a true view of reality. This can be dangerous for example people against vaccinations.

Oh, you mean like taxing people and holding an entire country hostage to financial implications over a non existent issue like "climate change"? When even if your country and it's neighbor to the south eliminated 100% of the CO2 emissions.. the world would still be, "supposedly", in peril?

Pah.... lease... Your idea is censorship and control of thinking.. Ever read the book "1984".

 

[JacksBratt]

The last poll I saw was that there are more flat earth believers than there was 10 years ago and 66% of 18-24 yo's are sure that the earth is spherical.

I fail to see how this is detrimental to anything.

How does the shape of the earth affect anything that you do in your daily life or your plans for anything?

Being concerned about a generation that thinks health care and education should be totally free and that people should have a guaranteed income... NOW that is a disturbing topic.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am concerned about how these ideas affect the society I live in. I don't care too much what you believe but I do care how it affects everyone else. It affects fiscal and social policy that affects everyone. People believing things without or against evidence means they don't have a true view of reality. This can be dangerous for example people against vaccinations.

While I do agree with you that some amount of spillover from faulty religious belief can affect other people in a society, this doesn't mean that all Christians everywhere and at all times are guilty of not having a true view of reality. As for this thread, do you know that flat-earthers are affecting the economy or social policy? Are all flat-earthers Christian? But even if all flat-earthers are Christian, since they only make up a minority view, I'm not so sure they'll be affecting too many things too widely.

 

[JacksBratt]

Speaking of math, my question about spherical trig from early in the thread still hasn't been addressed (a previous flat-earther on another thread concluded that he didn't need math). Why am I able to use spherical trigonometry to take a celestial fix (and hence navigate on transocean voyages)? And why won't Cartesian plane trigonometry work? In your world, it should be opposite. A great circle route should never navigate one from point A to point B on transocean transits.

I believe that in a thread on this site, many examples were given for the testing of missiles and other armaments, including jets and rockets... that NASA always did it's calculations based on a still and flat earth.

 

[46AND2]

While I do agree with you that some amount of spillover from faulty religious belief can spillover and affect other people in a society, this doesn't mean that all Christians everywhere and at all times are guilty of not having a true view of reality. As for this thread, do you know that flat-earthers are affecting the economy or social policy? Are all flat-earthers Christian? But even if all flat-earthers are Christian, since they only make up a minority view, I'm not so sure they'll be affecting too many things too widely.

Sure they would. If they can get enough people to believe that scientists are so imbecilic that they can't even get the shape of the earth correct, that could have far-reaching consequences. What other areas are they "WAY OFF" on?

 

[JacksBratt]

I NEVER said this. I believe what I said was we should teach people how to think. That is different than teaching them what to think. I believe our education system is not teaching good epistemology and skepticism that is required to determine truth for yourself.

I agree. We should teach kids how to think, reason, deduce conclusions. However, telling someone what is truth.. and having them regurgitate it on an exam.... is not teaching them anything.. It is storing data in a hard drive... only to be accessed later.
Our kids are indoctrinated with what academia wants them to think... Basically brainwashed...

If you can control the children... you can control the future...

How dare anyone indicate that something is different than the what we were told.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sure they would. If they can get enough people to believe that scientists are so imbecilic that they can't even get the shape of the earth correct, that could have far-reaching consequences. What other areas are they "WAY OFF" on?

So, you think a minority view among Christians can swing around and win the day against not only atheists but also against a majority view held among other Christians all living in the same society?