Debate #1: Is Evolution science or not?

[The Seeker]

Evolution's a religion that says nature is all there is. Evolution is the basis for humanism, communism, naziism, abortion, and so on.

Wrong on all counts, I don't think you could have lied more in one sentence if you tried.

Btw, show me ONE good evidence that supports Evolution.

"'Tis but a scratch"

 

[The Seeker]

Lucy was pure ape

Wrong

To be fair, Lucy was pure ape, just like we are

 

[Split Rock]

Evolution's a religion that says nature is all there is.

I asked these questions earlier, but (as usual) I received no response.

Here goes again..

What God or Gods are worshipped by this religion?

What ceremonies are used during observation of this religion?

Are there any standard prayers?

Show us the hierarchy supporting this religion.

How is it possible for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddists, etc, etc, to accept evolution if it is a separate religion?

Isn't the real reason you are saying this nonsense because you desire parity that hasn't been earned?

 

[DJ_Ghost]

Oh, maybe religions other than christian believe that evolution is part of religion, but Creation and Evolution is a Christian place.

Christianity and evolution are not incompatible. The majority of the major Christian denominations accept it and the Catholic church accepts that the two are not incompatible. By claiming they are you also saying that TEs are not Christians. Be very careful with such an implication, not only does it cause offence it violates forum rules.

Ghost

 

[DJ_Ghost]

"Humans are the intelligence that evolved from mammals. Science is only the study of something indepth, so yes it is science. Life is created by god. The truth is simple."

How do you know they Evolved? Were you there? You have to OBSERVE something for it to be science.

I do wish you would stop trying to tell us what science is Novaknight. I am a scientist and I have repeatedly pointed out that your scientific knowledge is not sufficient to be making grand pronouncements about what is and is not science.

Tell me do you also tell your lawyer what i and is not law and your mechanic how to fix your car?

You are wrong, plain and simple. You do not have to observe something directly for it to be science, you have to be able to make predictions from the theory and then test those predictions.

Have you ever seen an ape turn into a person? So how do you know it occured?

You see this is exactly what I mean about your grasp of science. The ToE would be falsifier if we ever saw such a thing because it defies the theory of evolution.

Lol. How about the fact that birds and dinosaurs have COMPLETELY different lungs? Tell that to the fact that dinosaurs and humans OBVIOUSLY lived simultaneously?

It makes no difference if dinosaurs lived alongside humans, it would make no difference if dinosaurs were living today and running the government of a small nation because the theory of Evolution does not require that dinosaurs be extinct before mammals evolve. We know that is what happened, but it realy isn’t necessary for it to have happened.

How about the fact that Evolution only works by changing the meaning?

That is not true, we didn’t change the meaning we corrected your misunderstanding of the meaning because what you claimed the ToE was was some outlandish fantasy version of it. it is more true to say that your objections to the ToE only work if the ToE is completely different to what it actually is.

How about the fact that dinosaurs might still be alive as dinosaurs?

How about it? For one thing there is no evidence that they are still alive, for another it would not matter if they were (see above).

How about the fact that Evolution requires billions of years and we have very few dating methods indicating an old Earth?

How about the fact that that is a flat out lie?

Lol. You're using REALLY pathetic science. Would you like a hug to comfort you over the loss of your theory?

He was making a joke not stating a scientific position, how can anyone not tell the difference in that instance?

Besides which as I have told you before, no one is emotionally attached to the theory of evolution so even if it was proven wrong tomorrow you could still keep your hands to yourself as no one would be distraught about it.

Evolution's a religion that says nature is all there is. Evolution is the basis for humanism, communism, naziism, abortion, and so on. Btw, show me ONE good evidence that supports Evolution. Tell me why you believe Lucy's part-man, part-ape.

Evolution does not meet the criterion for the dictionary definition of a religion so your wrong. Evolution does not claim nature is all there is so you are wrong. Evolution does not deny the existence of God. Evolution was not the basis for Nazism so you are wrong. Nazim and Communism are diametrically opposed to explain to me how they can both be founded on the same principle when they are opposites, or admit that you were wrong.

Ghost

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Evolution's a religion that says nature is all there is.

Bearing false witness against your neighbor is a serious sin.

 

[h2whoa]

Evolution is the basis for... naziism...

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison." -Adolf Hitler 12th April 1922

"The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them." - Adolf Hitler, 23rd March 1933

"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity...." - Adolf Hitler, 26th August 1934

I could continue. Now I want to make it clear that I am in no way blaming the horrors of Nazism on Christianity.

However I would like to point out that Nova may want to be careful about the sort of accusations he throws around about evolution.

h2

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity...." - Adolf Hitler, 26th August 1934

That part I bolded should have been a warning sign to all involved.
That and the fact that he wouldn't let Mein Kampf be translated into English.

I could continue. Now I want to make it clear that I am in no way blaming the horrors of Nazism on Christianity.

However I would like to point out that Nova may want to be careful about the sort of accusations he throws around about evolution.
h2

 

[Novaknight1]

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison." -Adolf Hitler 12th April 1922

"The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them." - Adolf Hitler, 23rd March 1933

"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity...." - Adolf Hitler, 26th August 1934

I could continue. Now I want to make it clear that I am in no way blaming the horrors of Nazism on Christianity.

However I would like to point out that Nova may want to be careful about the sort of accusations he throws around about evolution.

h2

If you are so certain that Evolution isn't the cause of all that, I recommend you look up Hitler's Hit List on Google.

 

[Novaknight1]

Bearing false witness against your neighbor is a serious sin.

And what part is false about Evolution saying nature is all there is and being a religion?

 

[The Lady Kate]

If you are so certain that Evolution isn't the cause of all that, I recommend you look up Hitler's Hit List on Google.

I recommend to post an explanation of how, even if it were so, it in any way, shape, or form, falsifies evolutionary theory...

 

[Event Horizon]

And what part is false about Evolution saying nature is all there is and being a religion?

1) Evolution doesn't say there isn't a supernatural anymore than germ theory does, and you should know that.
2) Evolution is testable, falsifiable, accepted science and there is no debate about it. You should know that too. Either you are just ignoring people and reality or you are lying.

 

[Event Horizon]

I recommend to post an explanation of how, even if it were so, it in any way, shape, or form, falsifies evolutionary theory...

I hope he at least knows it doesn't (but I wouldn't bet on it), he is just trying to make evolution look wrong or evil because of how Hitler supposedly used evolution as a motivation for something that harmed others (which, of course, makes no sense since evolution isn't a philosophy), when in fact, it is the very beliefs he holds himself that was the motive of such acts.

 

[Ampoliros]

And what part is false about Evolution saying nature is all there is and being a religion?

All of it?

By the way, Novaknight, the info you said to look up is rather unsupported. The one page I saw that was related to evolution or creation in the slightest made more of a reference to a strange interpretation of Genesis than it did at all to evolution.

Edit: Not to mention that the page seems to enjoy touting Dr. Dino as a source, considering they mirrored his site

 

[The Lady Kate]

I hope he at least knows it doesn't (but I wouldn't bet on it), he is just trying to make evolution look wrong or evil because of how Hitler supposedly used evolution as a motivation for something that harmed others (which, of course, makes no sense since evolution isn't a philosophy), when in fact, it is the very beliefs he holds himself that was the motive of such acts.

I'm not about to agree with that last part, since Hitler was not motivated by Christianity any more than evolution, but rather by his own sick mind, which twisted both to suit his purposes...

Of course, I was asking a rhetorical question. He knows perfectly well he can't prove evolution to be false, so he's taking the desparate path to try to prove that it is evil.

If evolution were a person, this would be nothing more than an ad hominem.

So.... this is what the bottom of the barrel looks like....

 

[Novaknight1]

I do wish you would stop trying to tell us what science is Novaknight. I am a scientist and I have repeatedly pointed out that your scientific knowledge is not sufficient to be making grand pronouncements about what is and is not science.

Lol. Evolution is NOT science. Because it has no -ism at the end, the media portrays it as science.

Tell me do you also tell your lawyer what i and is not law and your mechanic how to fix your car?

No, but it doesn't matter. I know quite a bit about science. I am a star scout, which requires brains, and I got a 27 on the ACT.

You are wrong, plain and simple. You do not have to observe something directly for it to be science, you have to be able to make predictions from the theory and then test those predictions.

True, but name ONE prediction that Evolution made that is KNOWN to be accurate.

You see this is exactly what I mean about your grasp of science. The ToE would be falsifier if we ever saw such a thing because it defies the theory of evolution.

No, it wouldn't. Some people love the theory so much, a trillion tons of evidence wouldn't faze them.

It makes no difference if dinosaurs lived alongside humans, it would make no difference if dinosaurs were living today and running the government of a small nation because the theory of Evolution does not require that dinosaurs be extinct before mammals evolve. We know that is what happened, but it realy isn’t necessary for it to have happened.

How do we know that happened? Also, which is a more likely story: that dinosaurs always lived with humans about 6,000 years, or that they survived unchanged for 65 million years? Since 6,000 years is a lot shorter, I would choose the first option.


That is not true, we didn’t change the meaning we corrected your misunderstanding of the meaning because what you claimed the ToE was was some outlandish fantasy version of it. it is more true to say that your objections to the ToE only work if the ToE is completely different to what it actually is.

Then how come evolution has 6 meanings?

Cosmic Evolution (Big Bang, religious)
Stellar Evolution (Stars forming, religious)
Elemental Evoltuion (Elements Evolving into other elements, religious)
Organic Evolution (dead objects coming to life, religious)
MacroEvolution (Turning into another species, religious)
Microevolution (variation of a species, scientific).

Btw, when I say religious, I mean it has NO scientific support.

Pretty convenient how I can attack 1 definition of a word and zip! you just switch to another word. The only reason more Christians don't attack Evolution, IMO, is because they'll be accused of attacking science because Evolution is the basis of all science. So if Evolution collapses, all science collapses. Pretty cowardly IMO.


How about it? For one thing there is no evidence that they are still alive, for another it would not matter if they were (see above).

Tell that to the indians. They claim to see animals that lived in prehistory CONSTANTLY. Ever hear of Loch Ness monster?



How about the fact that that is a flat out lie?

How about Carbon-14 dating? The atmosphere should have an equilized rate of formation and rate of decay if Earth were billions of years old, and it has not.

He was making a joke not stating a scientific position, how can anyone not tell the difference in that instance?



Besides which as I have told you before, no one is emotionally attached to the theory of evolution so even if it was proven wrong tomorrow you could still keep your hands to yourself as no one would be distraught about it.

Evolution won't be disproved tomorrow, it was disproved at least 30 years ago.

Evolution does not meet the criterion for the dictionary definition of a religion so your wrong. Evolution does not claim nature is all there is so you are wrong. Evolution does not deny the existence of God. Evolution was not the basis for Nazism so you are wrong. Nazim and Communism are diametrically opposed to explain to me how they can both be founded on the same principle when they are opposites, or admit that you were wrong.

Ghost

You should be aware of the evidence FOR AND AGAINST Evolution before you can rightly decide whether or not it really is science. Now, if you are willing to do that, I can help you and give you evidence on both sides.

As to how Naziism and communism are related, both are based on the assumption that man's opinion determines right from wrong, as does Evolution. Also, Evolution is A MINDLESS, PURPOSELESS PROCESS, the opposite of believing in God. TEs have to compromise Genesis, the foundation of the Bible. Therefore, you are wrong when you say Evolution means there is no god.

 

[Novaknight1]

I'm not about to agree with that last part, since Hitler was not motivated by Christianity any more than evolution, but rather by his own sick mind, which twisted both to suit his purposes...

Of course, I was asking a rhetorical question. He knows perfectly well he can't prove evolution to be false, so he's taking the desparate path to try to prove that it is evil.

If evolution were a person, this would be nothing more than an ad hominem.

So.... this is what the bottom of the barrel looks like....

I can prove Evolution false if you listen to the evidence. Evolution says there is about a gazillion transitional fossils, yet it is easier to SAY something's a TF than to actually have one. Take reptiles to birds. You need different lungs, different bones, basically the whole STRUCTURE needs to be different. This fact alone should prove Evolution a dud. YOU are actually attacking ME, are you not?

 

[Novaknight1]

All of it?

By the way, Novaknight, the info you said to look up is rather unsupported. The one page I saw that was related to evolution or creation in the slightest made more of a reference to a strange interpretation of Genesis than it did at all to evolution.

Edit: Not to mention that the page seems to enjoy touting Dr. Dino as a source, considering they mirrored his site

The only scientific definition of evolution is microevolution.

Actually, all of them are related to Creation or Evolution, as is this one.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/srjulyan/evolutionj.htm

Which makes more sense, to believe that the human body is the product of chance despite overwhelming complexity or a Designer?

 

[The Lady Kate]

You should be aware of the evidence FOR AND AGAINST Evolution before you can rightly decide whether or not it really is science. Now, if you are willing to do that, I can help you and give you evidence on both sides.

We've been doing that, and answered every "challenge" you've put up so far. How about actually trying one that addresses what evolution actually is?

As to how Naziism and communism are related, both are based on the assumption that man's opinion determines right from wrong, as does Evolution.

How exactly does evolution depend on man's opinion?

Also, Evolution is A MINDLESS, PURPOSELESS PROCESS, the opposite of believing in God.

Ignoring the fact that this statement FLATLY contradicts your previous one, I would just like to point out that both gravity and elevtricity are MINDLESS, PURPOSELESS PROCESSES... so why should evolution be any different?

TEs have to compromise Genesis, the foundation of the Bible.

And all this time I thought Jesus was the foundation of the Bible... when did you become such a master theologian?

Therefore, you are wrong when you say Evolution means there is no god.

Who but creationists have said this?

 

[Event Horizon]

You should be aware of the evidence FOR AND AGAINST Evolution

Wait a minute, you don't even know what evolution is. That's been shown over and over. Your knowledge is of creavolution. As for your knowledge of the evidence surrounding it, aren't you still using those moon dust, paluxy tracks, and 2LoT arguments against an old earth or evolution?

before you can rightly decide whether or not it really is science.

It's science whether it ever becomes refuted or not. Currently, it stands unrefuted and unaffect by various PRATTs from creationist.

Now, if you are willing to do that, I can help you and give you evidence on both sides.

We have all seen what you have to offer. The only difference between you and the others new creationists that have come prior to your arrival is that they learn the PRATTs are, in fact, PRATTs. You have yet to stop using them the last time I chacked.

As to how Naziism and communism are related, both are based on the assumption that man's opinion determines right from wrong, as does Evolution.

Evolution does not rest on the assumption that man's opinion determines right from wrong. That is in no way related to evolution.

Also, Evolution is A MINDLESS, PURPOSELESS PROCESS, the opposite of believing in God.

The purpose is to adapt. I could say the same about gravity but does that mean it's the opposite of god? The answer is no. God can use evolution to create the diversity of species today, just like he can use gravity to make matter come together.