Debate #1: Is Evolution science or not?

[aeroz19]

We have a debate: is Evolution science or religion? No interference allowed. Let the debate begin. My position is that it's a religion. My opponent says Evolution is a part of science. We shall see who's right and who's wrong.

Oh, please. Can't we all just move on? Can't humanity leave this one behind? Hasn't enough time passed? *sigh*

 

[FutureTeller]

We have a debate: is Evolution science or religion? No interference allowed. Let the debate begin. My position is that it's a religion. My opponent says Evolution is a part of science. We shall see who's right and who's wrong.

Evolution is defenitley not a religion, as no religion speaks about it or asks its followers to believe in it.

Evolution is not even a science, i mean a science fact, as it wasnt completely proven till now, many scientists still doubt it.

Evolution is just a theory put by man, it is still in the theoritical form, not 100% fact yet.

 

[Tomk80]

Evolution is defenitley not a religion, as no religion speaks about it or asks its followers to believe in it.

Evolution is not even a science, i mean a science fact, as it wasnt completely proven till now, many scientists still doubt it.

Evolution is just a theory put by man, it is still in the theoritical form, not 100% fact yet.

Well, actually, evolution is both fact and theory. There is the fact of evolution that allele frequencies change over time. There is the theory of evolution that explains this fact. A theory is an explanation of facts, it will never become fact itself.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

Evolution is not even a science, i mean a science fact, as it wasnt completely proven till now, many scientists still doubt it.

Yes it is a science, it is a branch of Biology. It is not an art, it is not a humanity it is not even a social science it is a scientific theory.

Evolution is just a theory put by man, it is still in the theoritical form, not 100% fact yet. :scratch

This is not how science works. Theories do not graduate to facts, and nothing is ever proven 100%.

Ghost

 

[TheArthritisFoundationRox]

Science is the study of what God gave us...but I suppose evolution is science.

 

[Novaknight1]

Evolution is defenitley not a religion, as no religion speaks about it or asks its followers to believe in it.

Evolution is not even a science, i mean a science fact, as it wasnt completely proven till now, many scientists still doubt it.

Evolution is just a theory put by man, it is still in the theoritical form, not 100% fact yet.

Yet? If as much evidence exists as it needs, why haven't we found it over 100 years ago? It's not a fact now, it will NEVER be a fact.

 

[Novaknight1]

Oh, please. Can't we all just move on? Can't humanity leave this one behind? Hasn't enough time passed? *sigh*

Enough time for Evolution? That would require billions of billions of billions of years to rearrange even the amino acids and nucleotides for even a virus with only 400 nucleotides and amino acids. How much more likely is Evolution of the human body?

 

[caravelair]

Yet? If as much evidence exists as it needs, why haven't we found it over 100 years ago? It's not a fact now, it will NEVER be a fact.

facts? what would you know of facts? you've made it quite clear that facts do not concern you.

 

[corvus_corax]

Yet? If as much evidence exists as it needs, why haven't we found it over 100 years ago? It's not a fact now, it will NEVER be a fact.

You still dont know what scientific theory is, do you?

 

[caravelair]

That would require billions of billions of billions of years to rearrange even the amino acids and nucleotides for even a virus with only 400 nucleotides and amino acids.

remember when we demonstrated that your calculations were absolute nonsense that had nothing to do with evolution? apparantly not...

 

[caravelair]

You still dont know what scientific theory is, do you?

apparantly nova is unable to learn anything. (or unwilling).

 

[Lucretius]

Evolution is a theory. However, it most definately is science. Definition of a Scientific Theory.

Novaknight, you are unbelievably wrong. Many things in evolution are facts. Natural selection, heredity, etc.

Fact: Knowledge or information based on real occurrences.

Natural selection is something humans see occur in everyday life. Same thing with heredity. It is a real thing. To say this is not fact is to be blatantly ignorant.

As to your question: I have to say it is one of the stupidest things I have heard. Why didn't we find it 100 years ago? I'm sure they had devices like mass spectrometers 100 years ago, back when they hadn't even invented the plane.

Besides, the whole "I deny Evolution so Creationism must be true" is basically your flawed logic getting in the way of rational thought. To perceive creationism as fact is to be a literal fool.

 

[Novaknight1]

Evolution is a theory. However, it most definately is science. Definition of a Scientific Theory.

Novaknight, you are unbelievably wrong. Many things in evolution are facts. Natural selection, heredity, etc.

Fact: Knowledge or information based on real occurrences.

Natural selection is something humans see occur in everyday life. Same thing with heredity. It is a real thing. To say this is not fact is to be blatantly ignorant.

As to your question: I have to say it is one of the stupidest things I have heard. Why didn't we find it 100 years ago? I'm sure they had devices like mass spectrometers 100 years ago, back when they hadn't even invented the plane.

Besides, the whole "I deny Evolution so Creationism must be true" is basically your flawed logic getting in the way of rational thought. To perceive creationism as fact is to be a literal fool.

I don't doubt natural selection or heredity. The question is not do they occur, but the question is Do they add up to Evolution. Besides, why is it so hard to accept Creation as a fact? If you see the sonar on a submarine and say it was designed yet see the sonar on a bat or a dolphin and say it is the product of chance, isn't that inconsistant?

 

[Novaknight1]

apparantly nova is unable to learn anything. (or unwilling).

I can and do learn, I just don't have the time to learn lies.

 

[caravelair]

I can and do learn, I just don't have the time to learn lies.

apparantly lies are all you have learned.

 

[Lucretius]

I don't doubt natural selection or heredity. The question is not do they occur, but the question is Do they add up to Evolution. Besides, why is it so hard to accept Creation as a fact? If you see the sonar on a submarine and say it was designed yet see the sonar on a bat or a dolphin and say it is the product of chance, isn't that inconsistant?

Uh…natural selection and heredity will basically point to evolution.

Modern synthesis theory has three major aspects:
The common descent of all organisms from a single ancestor.[From heredity]
The origin of novel traits in a lineage.[From heredity]
The mechanisms that cause some traits to persist while others perish.[From natural selection].
Evolutionary Theory

Yes, they do add up to Evolution.

Why is it so hard to believe in Creation?
#1)It was a book written by guys who have no knowledge of science.
#2)It was written by guys who believed they were communicating with the supernatural.
#3)The flood theory is a proven impossibility.See?
#4)The Bible is chock full of wrong things; why believe any of the other stuff that isn't historical fact?
#5)There is no evidence for it.
#6)Evidence supports Evolution.
#7)In order to believe in Creation, one has to believe in the creation of everything in 6 days. Planets take longer than 6 days to form.See?
#8)Why should I listen to a bunch of claims and assertions when there is no fact behind them?
#9)It requires belief in the supernatural, which can never be proven through natural evidence.

That is why Creationism is not hard, but impossible to believe in, unless you didn't think logically.

P.S. You cannot compare submarines to dolphins. Do submarines reproduce sexually? No. Do submarines use phenotypes to determine hereditary traits? No. Do submarines evolve by themselves over thousands of years? No.

It's like saying, "Robots can talk, humans can talk, robots are designed, why not humans?"

 

[Lucretius]

Argh I keep dbl posting

 

[Novaknight1]

You still dont know what scientific theory is, do you?

Yes. A theory means it's very likely, but not definite. If Evolution were a fact, as is commonly taught, we should have LOTS of evidence supporting it.

 

[Novaknight1]

Uh…natural selection and heredity will basically point to evolution.

Modern synthesis theory has three major aspects:
The common descent of all organisms from a single ancestor.[From heredity]
The origin of novel traits in a lineage.[From heredity]
The mechanisms that cause some traits to persist while others perish.[From natural selection].
Evolutionary Theory

Yes, they do add up to Evolution.

Why is it so hard to believe in Creation?
#1)It was a book written by guys who have no knowledge of science.
#2)It was written by guys who believed they were communicating with the supernatural.
#3)The flood theory is a proven impossibility.See?
#4)The Bible is chock full of wrong things; why believe any of the other stuff that isn't historical fact?
#5)There is no evidence for it.
#6)Evidence supports Evolution.
#7)In order to believe in Creation, one has to believe in the creation of everything in 6 days. Planets take longer than 6 days to form.See?
#8)Why should I listen to a bunch of claims and assertions when there is no fact behind them?
#9)It requires belief in the supernatural, which can never be proven through natural evidence.

That is why Creationism is not hard, but impossibleto believe in, unless you didn't think logically.

Do I hear a debate? If you are so sure Creation requires no brains to believe in, I challenge you to a debate by PM just to keep the other people out.

 

[caravelair]

A theory means it's very likely, but not definite.

no, that is not what 'theory' means.

there is probably no chance you will read this, but...

In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact" - part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science - that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are NOT about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory - natural selection - to explain the mechanism of evolution.

- Stephen J. Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981

If Evolution were a fact, as is commonly taught, we should have LOTS of evidence supporting it.

we do have lots of evidence supporting it.