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Death Penalty for Abortion

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by OGM, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. GrimKingGrim

    GrimKingGrim The Thin Dead Line of sanity

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    Well let's discuss things like adults today mmkay?
     
  2. RealityCheck

    RealityCheck Senior Veteran

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    No, you failed to pay any attention to the argument. You're arguing that a right to life trumps all other rights and I'm saying you're wrong. Even if I were to agree that a fetus has the exact same right to life as you and me and anyone rlse, that right to life fails to trump the mother's rights to bodily autonomy.

    Try this on for size. You wake up one day to find yourself hooked up to a machine that is also hooked up to me, and this machine is keeping me alive using your body. Turns out your blood and mine are compatible but I have a blood disorder that your body can filter out. If you disconnect yourself from this machine, I will die.... guaranteed. You decide you don't appreciate this violation of your bodily autonomy and ask the doctors to disconnect you, but I assert my right to live as trumping your right to leave. Under your thinking, where the right to life trumps all, you cant leave. I would die, and you'd have killed me.

    Now of course, you would say the situations aren't analogous. Why? Because you didn't take an actuon, like sex, that resulted in this condition? That's pretty much your view - pregnancy is a consequence of sex, as you say below...

    It's telling, of course, that you use the word "consequence" as this reflects the very tiresome view that a baby is a punishment for engaging in sex. That you think this way is all the more evident by your eroneous belief that a WOMAN gives up rights by engaging in sex, with no view of what rights a man gives up.... if any. If you're going to advocate for carrying every pregnancy to term as a woman's punishment for having sex, then you'd have to advocate for every father to be legallt and equitably responsible for those children in every case.... or else be nothing more than a hypocrite. Good luck getting any men to line up behind that proposition.

    But it doesn't matter because you're simply wrong. Your view of sex appears to be narrowly confiNed to PIV sexual activity. It should be obvious to any sexually active adults, even fundamentalists who can't bring themselves to think of it, that there's a vast array of sexual activity that has 0 chance of leading to pregnancy. Since not one of those has a "consequence" attached to it, it makes no logical sense to argue that one particular act must be allowed to have consequential punishment attached. Granted, there could be other consequences like spread of an STD. But would you argue that people who engage in sex give up the right to cure themselves of such consequences? If a man contracts herpes because he has sex, does he give up the right to get rid of the infection because that's the consequence of having sex?

    That doesn't even account for the number of ways humans have figured out for decoupling sex from pregnancy. Condoms have been around for millenia. Natrual, herbal abortifacients have been known of and used for probably longer. We know that sex at certain times of the month have a nearly 0 chance of resulting in pregnancy. The past five or six decades didn't suddenly introduce recreational sex without possibility of pregnancy. We just have become a lot better and more sophisticated about it. We have done a LOT to disconnect sex from pregnancy, for thousands of years.
     
  3. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    You are asking a lot.
     
  4. RealityCheck

    RealityCheck Senior Veteran

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    Plus, you find the attitude of "have sex without consequences I can just have an abortion" to be shallow and self centered. So what? Even if I agreed with you, that would be no reason to criminalize abortion
     
  5. As I was saying

    As I was saying Well-Known Member

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    And I am saying you are wrong.
     
  6. As I was saying

    As I was saying Well-Known Member

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    What is a mmkay?
     
  7. RealityCheck

    RealityCheck Senior Veteran

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    Yes. But you're not really doing a good job of explaining a) why I'm wrong or b) why you're right.
     
  8. GrimKingGrim

    GrimKingGrim The Thin Dead Line of sanity

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    Apparently so
     
  9. Crowns&Laurels

    Crowns&Laurels Well-Known Member

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    This world is a sad state of affairs when the question even exists "What's wrong with abortion?"
     
  10. GoldenBoy89

    GoldenBoy89 We're Still Here

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    Don't look at me... I didn't create the world the way it is.
     
  11. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    Firstly it is wrong to call a murderess that kills her child a mother! She was a potential mother. Secondly, a person has no more right to kill their neighbor for 'bodily autonomy' than they have a right to snuff their own flesh and blood. The right to having their body protected exists for a young person as much or more than for an old one.
    No. Because a baby is not hooked up to man's machines generally. They are where God designed them to be. The would be mother/murderess cannot return to Sender any more than she can return anyone else on earth too Sender. Once that happens then they've blasphemed the Creator, and descended into the deepest depravity and sin imaginable.

    No. But if you considered it a reward, you would not be in favor of killing it!

    A woman has no rights and never had any rights and never will have the right to kill babies sent from God. Engaging in sex is no excuse. That is like saying...I drove too fast to work, so I might as well blow up the bank.

    Of course a dad is responsible for his family. There are also lots of great parents who would be willing to adopt. Not every child in history had a dad that was there or lived all that long. That is no excuse to destroy little people.
    All sin has consequences. Not all crimes merit the same punishments.

    In the case of the murderess would be mom, she cannot go out to the alley, get the garbage bag with the burned fetus, and restore it to health! It is irrevocable.
     
  12. As I was saying

    As I was saying Well-Known Member

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    Neither are you.
     
  13. Superhero Sam

    Superhero Sam Newbie

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    Do you think those men should or shouldn't be charged with that crime?

    I am pro-life, but I believe it's unfair how fetuses are treated like persons in some situations and not others, so I don't think fetuses should be treated as persons by the law AT ALL, unless abortion is made illegal.
     
  14. Superhero Sam

    Superhero Sam Newbie

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    What about in countries where women who have miscarriages are jailed? That isn't right either.
     
  15. As I was saying

    As I was saying Well-Known Member

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    That is not the topic of the thread so I will not comment.
     
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