Deal Breakers?

[JesusIsTheOnlyWay]

JITOW, I'm sorry, but you're so dead-set on your position that I don't think you could actually have a calm, rational discussion about it. Sorry.

And FTR I've never watched a soap opera in my entire life.

Ok, seriously.

What was "irrational" about my first post on the topic?

What was even irrational about my response to you on the second time?

If you want to throw insults, which you and Kittie started doing, by the way, not me, that's up to you.


All I did was ask another poster, in a rather long post I admit, but all I did was ask her if she didn't at least see some hypocrissy in the way Christian women treat Christian men.


You still didn't answer the question, after having responded twice, by the way. All you did was call me bitter and irrational, and then claim I wouldn't listen anyway.

Which is ironic, because it is you who is being irrational by not even giving me a chance.

 

[Blank123]

All I did was ask another poster, in a rather long post I admit, but all I did was ask her if she didn't at least see some hypocrissy in the way Christian women treat Christian men.

thats actually the problem. You were generalising Christian women, and thats pretty offensive. Not to mention generalising is a logical fallacy. You really shouldn't be too surprised when people do take offense when you do make such a calim and you do so in an argumentative fashion. you may not have meant your post to be argumentative but that is how it came across.

 

[JesusIsTheOnlyWay]

No...I was not talking about that.
Bitter is all I said. So I was right.

no, you weren't right.

Not trying to discourage you. You're reading too much into my post and thinking things I did not say nor imply.
I didn't say anything about whether I liked it or not.

Wait. This is what you said on this thread just now.

Given your last post in the 12 kids thread...I must agree... bitter much?

I'm sorry, but your complaint is way over the top. I won't even begin to compare the real wage differences between men and women. Or the fact that more men get higher positions. Or that social expectations go against women as well. But oh well...generalize away.

On the other thread, you said, "pretty sure my bible says differently," but offered no actual text to verify that statement, this following up the "bitter" comment from Inkabink on that thread. Then you hop on this thread and throw it at me yourself, and you too didn't bother to actually answer the question I put forth, because you were apparantly more interested in insulting me than actually thinking about it.


As for your other point, more men may have higher income in the national average, but it definitely does not seem to be the case anywhere around here, and especially not in my age group. Like I said, I did their tax returns...for the past several years.

 

[JesusIsTheOnlyWay]

thats actually the problem. You were generalising Christian women, and thats pretty offensive. Not to mention generalising is a logical fallacy. You really shouldn't be too surprised when people do take offense when you do make such a calim and you do so in an argumentative fashion. you may not have meant your post to be argumentative but that is how it came across.

Define "argumentative"?

"Argumentative Writing" is actually a english skills class in college, and one of those which I did very well in.

If you mean "confrontational," no I did not mean it to be confrontational.

I did intend to display my disgust and frustration with people's hypocritical expectations of me, especially Christian women.

Even if I was generalizing, it was in a part of the post which was not absolutely neccessary for the question I asked, which, by the way, none of you has bothered to answer.


So can you ladies quit dodging the question for once?

 

[* kittie *]

no, you weren't right.



Wait. This is what you said on this thread just now.



On the other thread, you said, "pretty sure my bible says differently," but offered no actual text to verify that statement, this following up the "bitter" comment from Inkabink on that thread. Then you hop on this thread and throw it at me yourself, and you too didn't bother to actually answer the question I put forth, because you were apparantly more interested in insulting me than actually thinking about it.


As for your other point, more men may have higher income in the national average, but it definitely does not seem to be the case anywhere around here, and especially not in my age group. Like I said, I did their tax returns...for the past several years.

1. You are bitter which I'm right about.

2. ...And the 2 posts don't counteract each other? I pointed out flaws in your post, which is based on fact. How is that discouraging you? Hey, if you don't want a woman who sits at home all day, then don't get one.

3. I never said "pretty sure the Bible says differently." Don't "quote" me when I don't make a quote.

4. The average salary for men have been higher than women for quite some time. It is these days that the gap is becoming smaller. But what you said made it seem like it's unfair for men by this gross amount. Certainly there many be odd cases depending on which fields you're comparing AND ethnic groups.

5. If you want to take me saying your post sounds bitter as an insult, then I'm sorry. But don't go on to assume that "I'm throwing insultS" at you, because I didn't assume anything else about you.

 

[Blank123]

Define "argumentative"?

1. fond of or given to argument and dispute; disputatious; contentious: The law students were an unusually argumentative group. 2. of or characterized by argument; controversial: an argumentative attitude toward political issues. 3. Law. arguing or containing arguments suggesting that a certain fact tends toward a certain conclusion.

"Argumentative Writing" is actually a english skills class in college, and one of those which I did very well in.

good

If you mean "confrontational," no I did not mean it to be confrontational.

well now you know how you're coming across, you can take steps to deal with that

I did intend to display my disgust and frustration with people's hypocritical expectations of me, especially Christian women.

you can do that without insulting all Christian women

Even if I was generalizing, it was in a part of the post which was not absolutely neccessary for the question I asked, which, by the way, none of you has bothered to answer.

you're deflecting from the issue. we've moved on from your question because of the offensive nature of your posts. perhaps if you rephrased so that you're not knocking every women in Christendom, you'll find a more receptive attitude amongst the women here

So can you ladies quit dodging the question for once?

I refer you to my last paragraph. Until we're treated with a little more respect there's really no reason for us to respond to any questions you may ask. Thats generally the way discussions work, you're civil with one another and each person adds something to keep the conversation moving. When you start attacking someone (and that is how you came across) that puts an end to the discussion. You shouldn't expect us to have to answer any questions until you've taken a look at your own attitude and how you're coming across to us. We don't owe you any answers. but it would seem you do owe the ladies here an apology.

 

[LostFound1986]

JesusIsOnTheWay, I think an answer to your question would be that if you don't feel you can compete with these women in terms of earnings, then don't try to. Paychecks aren't everything.

In the end, everyone is different and every relationship is different. It's common now to have a married couple both working and both earning similar amounts. Its also not unusual for the woman to be the main breadwinner, in that she earns more than her husband. But like I said, merely earning money isn't the most important thing in life by a long shot.

I really don't know any couple where the man is the only one that works, and the woman just sits aroudn and watches tv all day. I imagine I don't know anyone like that because it would be an unstable and unfair relationship that no self-respecting man would put up with.

I do however know a lot of couples where the man works full time and the woman works full time as a homemaker and/or mother. This really can be a great way to live as well, if its the lifestyle you want and its affordable.

In the end, I do think there seems to be a little bitterness in your post. Its easy to feel like that, but sometimes I think we can get worked up about things that arn't strictly valid. I doubt any woman has specifically challenged you to either earn more than she does or to support her fully while she watches soap operas. Also, its very easy to upset women by making generalisations about them!

As for my dealbreakers, they would be, 1. a harsh, unkind or impatient attitude. 2. Excessive loudness / extrovertedess....(sp!) 3. Unhealthy lifestyle (too much alchohol / smoking / fatty foods).

 

[JesusIsTheOnlyWay]

1. You are bitter which I'm right about.

If you say so.

It isn't from a lack of trying not to be or lack of praying about it.

2. ...And the 2 posts don't counteract each other? I pointed out flaws in your post, which is based on fact. How is that discouraging you? Hey, if you don't want a woman who sits at home all day, then don't get one.

I think you miss the point, but I'm not exactly sure how I could spell it out any clearer.

3. I never said "pretty sure the Bible says differently." Don't "quote" me when I don't make a quote.

Ah, that was Little_Tigress who said that. Sorry.

4. The average salary for men have been higher than women for quite some time. It is these days that the gap is becoming smaller. But what you said made it seem like it's unfair for men by this gross amount. Certainly there many be odd cases depending on which fields you're comparing AND ethnic groups.

I'm not talking about odd cases. I'm talking about real world, real couples which I know what I'm talking about because I did their tax returns.

5. If you want to take me saying your post sounds bitter as an insult, then I'm sorry. But don't go on to assume that "I'm throwing insultS" at you, because I didn't assume anything else about you.

What else is it to be taken as? I'm not aware of any context where it could be anything other than insulting, especially since you both have no problem calling me bitter or even irrational, but continue to dodge the question.

You still have not answered the question.

Let me re-state it for you.

Why should a guy be expected to have a full time job, when a woman can make several times as much in less work hours spent?


Like I said, its not an excuse to be lazy.

I wish I knew of a job that I was either qualified for, or could be qualified for in a reasonable amount of time which met these criteria:

-Pleases God
-Actually be happy. I was miserable 24/7 at my last full time job, and wasn't exactly happy about any job I've ever had.
-Provides for me, a wife, and a family*
-Provides more than enough to give to church and those in real need
-Doesn't require me to pitch a tent at work for the rest of my life.


* Guess what? You got me all wrong on point 2, sister.

I would like nothing more than to tell some lady she could sit around at the house and even hire a maid if she wants to. Unfortunately, I've never been even remotely able to make that sort of money, and haven't the foggiest idea what I might do which does meet those criteria above.

 

[JesusIsTheOnlyWay]

no text/double post

 

[GoodNewsJournalist]

-Pleases God
-Actually be happy. I was miserable 24/7 at my last full time job, and wasn't exactly happy about any job I've ever had.
-Provides for me, a wife, and a family*
-Provides more than enough to give to church and those in real need
-Doesn't require me to pitch a tent at work for the rest of my life.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but can I ask you a whole bunch of questions.

After God gave you dominion over the Earth in Genesis Chapter, don't you think he wants you to take control of your life, and make a life you want for yourself.

Since you're on the singles board, it probably means you're single, so that means you can make decisions to embark on finding what is best for you without it affecting a wife and children.

So, here's the questions.

1,) What do you want?

The reason I ask this question is God never told the person with 5 talents, or 2 talents to go out and invest those talents to make more - but they did anyways.

Are you sure you want to be the person who had a single talent and hid it away.

2.) Who are you?

God does give you that answer, but you seem to have forgotten.

You don't have to answer these questions here, but you really need to answer them for yourself in your heart.

I can honestly answer each of these questions - and so should you.

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

This thread reminds me of this recent episode of 30 Rock:

Hulu - 30 Rock: Preach It, Liz Lemon!

 

[JesusIsTheOnlyWay]

good

well now you know how you're coming across, you can take steps to deal with that

you can do that without insulting all Christian women

I never insulted all christian women. You simply continue to falsely accuse me of having done so.

you're deflecting from the issue. we've moved on from your question because of the offensive nature of your posts. perhaps if you rephrased so that you're not knocking every women in Christendom, you'll find a more receptive attitude amongst the women here

So now my posts were offensive?

A woman can call me bitter and irrational, and refuse to answer the question, and then its my fault?

You are the one deflecting from the issue. Hey, you spend the whole time finding fault with me, when my original post was not in any way directed at you.

I did rephrase the question, and asked it several different ways in the original post anyway.

I refer you to my last paragraph. Until we're treated with a little more respect there's really no reason for us to respond to any questions you may ask. Thats generally the way discussions work, you're civil with one another and each person adds something to keep the conversation moving. When you start attacking someone (and that is how you came across) that puts an end to the discussion. You shouldn't expect us to have to answer any questions until you've taken a look at your own attitude and how you're coming across to us. We don't owe you any answers. but it would seem you do owe the ladies here an apology.

I never attacked anyone.

I was however called "bitter" and "irrational" for no apparant reason.

Why should I apologize, when I DID NOT attack anyone, and definitely not directly. In the original post, I even told by dluvs2trvl in post 93 not to take it personally, that I was addressing her statement and the issue i laid out, and not her specifically.

I mean goodness, the only reason I'm upset now is because you three threw a fit and continue to find fault with me and for the most part, refuse to address the issue.


I'm not going to apologize for something I never did, nor intended to do. I already explained the part about that "generalization," and none of you would listen or be satisfied anyway.

Once again, all I did was ask a question. Do you prefer I back up and delete everything except the questions themselves?

I basically already did that when I reposted it though, and you still don't want an honest discussion, but insist on me apologizing when I didn't do anything wrong, and whatever wrong you think I did, I already addressed that too.

If you are that offended by what basically amounts to an oversight or a phrase that wasn't qualified on an internet thread posted in real time,w ell then I don't know what to say. I tried to explain what I was intending to convey, but it didn't appease any of you, so I'm likely just going to quit bothering unless some of you decide you'd like to talk instead of just "folding your arms".

 

[* kittie *]

If you say so.

It isn't from a lack of trying not to be or lack of praying about it.

I didn't say anything about the lack of prayer...

I think you miss the point, but I'm not exactly sure how I could spell it out any clearer.

You were comparing the two. I think it's you who missed my point.

I'm not talking about odd cases. I'm talking about real world, real couples which I know what I'm talking about because I did their tax returns.

Your sister or the people you know who are making more than their husbands ARE the odd cases. In the real world...you even said it yourself about the national average.

What else is it to be taken as? I'm not aware of any context where it could be anything other than insulting, especially since you both have no problem calling me bitter or even irrational, but continue to dodge the question.

And I said if you took it as an insult then I'm sorry. I didn't post to insult you but I clicked on the thread and saw this wall of text that just sounded angry. Just like you don't mean to be confrontational but are.

You still have not answered the question.

You didn't directly ask me a question so "still" does not apply.

Let me re-state it for you.

Thanks for asking me.

Why should a guy be expected to have a full time job, when a woman can make several times as much in less work hours spent?

No. Neither should a woman. If I were to bring up examples of unfairness in wages, men is not where I would start. Although I'm pretty sure there are cases where men are treated unfairly... What world is fair?

I wish I knew of a job that I was either qualified for, or could be qualified for in a reasonable amount of time which met these criteria:

-Pleases God
-Actually be happy. I was miserable 24/7 at my last full time job, and wasn't exactly happy about any job I've ever had.
-Provides for me, a wife, and a family*
-Provides more than enough to give to church and those in real need
-Doesn't require me to pitch a tent at work for the rest of my life.

Well lest I be accused of insulting or attacking your spiritual life...which I'm not...
Happiness becomes relative if you let it. If you've been unhappy at every job you've ever had, maybe there's a reason there. I'm not saying you're not praying enough or that you're not trying hard enough...because happiness isn't really correlated to the number of times you pray. Nor is it about trying so hard. At least not in my experience. But it's how close I am to Christ in fellowship and worship. After that, everything usually follows. It took me 7 years of depression to realize that.

Like I said...before you accuse me of it...I'm not saying anything against you. I just found that even in my own experience, I can spend all day miserable about where I live if I wanted. As for my family, when trusting in God, he has never failed to provide food and a roof over our head, despite that I lost my dad 9 years ago. I don't believe God is one to neglect his children.

 

[Inkachu]

Hey wait a minute, I never said you did. Soap opera was, admittedly a stereotype, but it was just an example. I could have picked other things like shopping for 50 pairs of shoes, or chatting on the internet or whatever.

What makes you think I'm not being calm or rational?

Goodness, what could possibly be more rational than the post I made? I applied the same logic both ways, and then even asked somebody to give me a good reason to think otherwise.

Instead of doing that, you decide to spit in my face, and then blame me for it.



You know something, I do have certain bitterness issues, which I pray about continually, but part of it is the fact that people seem to want to be rid of me wherever I go.

Worse is knowing you're called to preach, for example, and knowing almost nobody wants to hear "what does the Bible say about that?" least of all on Christian Forums.

If you and "Kitty" are so convinced that bitterness is my problem, then why not pray for me? I pray for you, honestly.


Kitty:

As for the other thread, I'm not going to argue about it, but I could show you what I was talking about from the Bible. I was considering doing that, but whatever. I wasn't aware that Leah having raped Jacob could even be remotely contested, nor the part about Rachel at least originally being his favorite. So if you care to show me from the narrative, or from other inspired texts looking back to it, where the other things I said were wrong, I'll gladly retract my statements from that thread.

You can think what you want about me. I'm tired of trying to please people who know nothing but throwing "bitterness" back in my face. Maybe the reason I'm "bitter" is because the people who are supposed to minister to me never seem to know what to do with me other than spit in my face.


I'm not going to let this discourage me one bit. God's got something and someone better for me, and whether you like it or not.

I didn't "spit in your face". I thought I was perfectly respectful and civil in what I said. You've admitted that you're bitter. Yet you're unleashing all your venom on me, because I'm a convenient female tartget.

This is why I said I don't think you can have a rational discussion about it. You've just proven that you can't.

I'm not saying "don't speak to me". I'm happy to talk to you anytime you like, as long as you can be nice about it.

 

[Inkachu]

Ok, seriously.

What was "irrational" about my first post on the topic?

What was even irrational about my response to you on the second time?

If you want to throw insults, which you and Kittie started doing, by the way, not me, that's up to you.


All I did was ask another poster, in a rather long post I admit, but all I did was ask her if she didn't at least see some hypocrissy in the way Christian women treat Christian men.


You still didn't answer the question, after having responded twice, by the way. All you did was call me bitter and irrational, and then claim I wouldn't listen anyway.

Which is ironic, because it is you who is being irrational by not even giving me a chance.

1. I never called you irrational. I said, based on your posts, that you didn't seem like you could hold a rational discussion about this topic. And you seem to have gotten yourself so upset over what you perceive to be a personal attack, that I think I'm being proven right.

2. I didn't throw a single insult at you. I don't know you to insult you.

3. I also didn't say I wouldn't give you a chance. My PM's are always open to anyone who would like to discuss anything. I hope I'm completely wrong, honestly.

 

[Tamara224]

Why should a guy be expected to have a full time job, when a woman can make several times as much in less work hours spent?

Why should a woman be expected to work a full time job, when a man can make several times as much in less work hours spent?

Also, I fail to see how a woman is being hypocritical simply because she desires a man who is not lazy. Unless you have some indication that the woman who does so is only seeking a man for the purpose of his supporting her financially, I see no reason to presume that she is expecting something from him that she is not performing herself.


Returning to the OP:

Unusual deal breakers for me:

It would take extreme extenuating circumstances to convince me to date a bass player.

 

[Inkachu]

A bass player...LOL. I sense a story behind that one.

 

[JohnDB]

I Just stopped in for a second to say howdy...I have been hapily married now for over six months...

What a ride...I remember starting this thread...didn't think it would still be alive...LOL

oh well...

yawl have a good one...

 

[Tamara224]

A bass player...LOL. I sense a story behind that one.

LOL, I should make one up. But no, no story. Just years of orchestra... hard to put my finger on it - just something I've noticed about the type of guys who choose bass.

They tend to be players, for one thing.

 

[Inkachu]

No way Tams...I've actually noticed the same thing, but...I thought it was just me!