Dating and Sex

[Emosoundlogic]

So, the bible is pretty clear when it comes to pre-marital sex. It's a sin. Why, that can be debated, but that's not something I want to do. I personally don't have an issue with the idea of abstinence until marriage, there's a pretty good amount of non-biblical proof to support it anyway.

My issue is simple... I think the western, modern church, has failed singles.

Paul makes it quite clear that it is better to marry than to burn with desire. However, in that day, a man such as myself, could literally buy a wife. I make very good money.

My issue is, people in general, especially women (it seems to me) want to date for long extended periods of time before they're even willing to consider marriage.

I am 33 years old. I had it rough getting started, let's just say I was sexualized at a very young age without even knowing what it was, and then given unrestricted internet access that you can imagine created problems for me.

I've been a Christian since I was like 5, and I've wrestled with this issue since I was like 16. Not trying to dig up years and years of therapy, but I'm not a typical guy, I have a lot of damage in this area.

Now days if I want to get married, assuming I can even find a woman that wants to date me (you'd be surprised how much of a struggle it is to find one), I am looking at months of "dating" before we are in a "relationship" followed by most likely years, and then finally we get married and I am finally allowed to have sex.

I personally don't think that's how it was meant to be, and I think we unduly suffer because of it. I think the church has abandoned us in this area.

 

[Ken Rank]

So, the bible is pretty clear when it comes to pre-marital sex. It's a sin. Why, that can be debated, but that's not something I want to do. I personally don't have an issue with the idea of abstinence until marriage, there's a pretty good amount of non-biblical proof to support it anyway.

My issue is simple... I think the western, modern church, has failed singles.

Paul makes it quite clear that it is better to marry than to burn with desire. However, in that day, a man such as myself, could literally buy a wife. I make very good money.

My issue is, people in general, especially women (it seems to me) want to date for long extended periods of time before they're even willing to consider marriage.

I am 33 years old. I had it rough getting started, let's just say I was sexualized at a very young age without even knowing what it was, and then given unrestricted internet access that you can imagine created problems for me.

I've been a Christian since I was like 5, and I've wrestled with this issue since I was like 16. Not trying to dig up years and years of therapy, but I'm not a typical guy, I have a lot of damage in this area.

Now days if I want to get married, assuming I can even find a woman that wants to date me (you'd be surprised how much of a struggle it is to find one), I am looking at months of "dating" before we are in a "relationship" followed by most likely years, and then finally we get married and I am finally allowed to have sex.

I personally don't think that's how it was meant to be, and I think we unduly suffer because of it. I think the church has abandoned us in this area.

Welcome to the group. I am not sure it is the church that has abandoned us (of the faith) but rather the culture itself. Perhaps it is the Christian culture and manner of dating... but I don't know what the church might have done (or not done) that would warrant blame. What do you see as that point that calls for blame?

Otherwise, I agree though if you meet the right person who has the same convictions, the process might end up being much faster than you believe it can be. Hang in there.

 

[Emosoundlogic]

The church has no dating, there are "singles" groups, but those are basically just groups designed to teach people who are not married how to be good Christians.

IMO, the church should be hosting dating events, it should be teaching these men and women what their roles are in marriage, what their responsibilities are etc. Along with that, they need to provide marriage counseling and more or less a prep course.

I don't like the idea of shackling up two people who have no interest in each other, but there needs to be a middle ground between that and what we have now, which is basically that no one wants to get married to anyone that isn't perfect, and there's a light from heaven that literally tells them, THIS IS THE ONE!

Then they're absolutely devastated when they find out, guess what, marriage is ALWAYS hard, and life isn't easy, so why spend years and years trying to force something that's never going to live up to that standard?

I think the Church should be setting healthy expectations, along with encouraging healthy dating ethics and behavior. Everyone has baggage and issues, and there should be counselors there to address those issues.

I don't need to hear Paul's missionary journey again for the 16th time, ya know what I mean?

 

[Endeavourer]

The church has failed this arena in quite a few areas by imposing Pharisaical processes or expectations to the mate selection process.

However, giving the relationship enough time to know each other is really important.

Look at it from the female's perspective: she's selecting someone who many faith traditions teach will be her authority, will have 51% of the vote on all important decisions affecting her for the rest of her life (could just as well be 100%), and to whom she will be expected to submit in her day to day.

Basically, let's be blunt, if her faith teaches the traditional "submission" message, she's selecting who she should be enslaved to. The messages don't say it that way but that is the effect of such teaching. Some people will say "So what, that's what the Bible says!" Just spend a bit of time on this forum on threads that talk about gender roles and you'll see the usual uglies denigrating women and demanding their submission to their husband who they claim is not just her earthly authority but also her spiritual authority!

She will also be expected to apply kind words and winsome behaviors to an abusive husband because confronting him on it would challenge his masculinity. Also, they throw 1 Peter 3:1 at her out of context (Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives)

Some traditions impose church discipline on a woman when she is being abused because if she only would submit better her marriage wouldn't be bad.

You may think this ^^ all sounds like I am an agitated feminist.... not so. I'm a lay person volunteer ministering to abused spouses and I hear these heartbreaking stories ALL.THE.TIME. Further, I was raised in a tradition that did not give the messages described above as blunt as I did, but the takeaway was the same, and the outcome was the same.

So, from a woman's perspective, depending upon what type of emphasis her church puts on these matters, selecting a mate is a process that deserves as much time as she feels she needs in order to feel safe and confident in her choice.

In effect, the Pharisaical expectations by our churches placed on the wife AFTER the marriage is part of the failure you are experiencing.

Also, she's selecting a father for her children. She wants to see that you'll be able to keep your comportment in times of difficulty (both to her and the children), and that if she becomes a stay at home mom that you'll be a worthy and reliable partner to her. She is subjecting herself to a HIGH risk by depending upon you in that situation, so she needs to be sure of her choice.

 

[Endeavourer]

So what to do with my post above:

If you want my advice, when you find a woman you feel would be a great candidate, focus your behaviors such that she can get comfortable in these areas quicker. Show her that you won't be running roughshod rule over her. Show her that she can depend upon you to remain calm in the face of crises. Do working projects together on your dates so she can see how you handle frustrations and setbacks.

Place yourselves outside of fantasyland dinner dates and in situations where she can see who the real you is, not just the "best side" of you, but what's underneath and what she can expect 5, 10, 25 years down the road.

Also, refraining from sex before marriage is a **HUGE** testimony to her of how you put the health and needs of the two of you as a unit ahead of the needs of you as an individual. Even if she gives you indications that she wouldn't be so opposed to it. There's Scripture on this topic, but there's also quite a deep science behind why sex before marriage is not good for marriage. I can recommend an excellent resource on this if you are interested.

Find ways to show her who will she be living with day to day.

 

[Romans 8]

I don't like the idea of shackling up two people who have no interest in each other, but there needs to be a middle ground between that and what we have now, which is basically that no one wants to get married to anyone that isn't perfect, and there's a light from heaven that literally tells them, THIS IS THE ONE!

This is true, and it's come from the multitudes of "likes" approvals on social media such as Facebook. First off the media is bombarding us with imagery of what we should be looking for in a partner, and then we're gaining an inflated "self worth" from our social media platforms. When reading online profiles from women, 90% of them sound exactly the same. They want a professional, tall dark and handsome man, educated, well traveled, "can handle himself in any social situation", bla bla bla. They describe themselves: I am career oriented and have a great job, amazing friends, a "quirky" sense of humor, educated, well traveled..etc. Does this sound familiar I don't think it's bad to have standards, but please have a personality of your own that's not cloned from contemporary media. Many women want a man to fit into a box which they can take out and show their friends to envy. It's not how lasting relationships are made.

Then they're absolutely devastated when they find out, guess what, marriage is ALWAYS hard, and life isn't easy, so why spend years and years trying to force something that's never going to live up to that standard?

Yes. If marriage isn't based on a healthy foundation, then all the worse. Again the media loves to support divorce and so does the courtroom. Our system is set up for divorce and many times makes it profitable for a woman to have a divorce. On the news I remember watching a woman having a divorce party with her friends. Divorce is as normal today as finding a new job or buying/selling a car.

 

[Endeavourer]

. Our system is set up for divorce and many times makes it profitable for a woman to have a divorce. On the news I remember watching a woman having a divorce party with her friends. Divorce is as normal today as finding a new job or buying/selling a car.

Divorce is a wrenching and heartbreaking process. I don't know anyone who likes to do it to make a profit or throw parties. Only to a psychopath might it be as normal as finding a new job or selling a car.

 

[Romans 8]

So, the bible is pretty clear when it comes to pre-marital sex. It's a sin. Why, that can be debated, but that's not something I want to do. I personally don't have an issue with the idea of abstinence until marriage, there's a pretty good amount of non-biblical proof to support it anyway.

My issue is simple... I think the western, modern church, has failed singles.

Paul makes it quite clear that it is better to marry than to burn with desire. However, in that day, a man such as myself, could literally buy a wife. I make very good money.

My issue is, people in general, especially women (it seems to me) want to date for long extended periods of time before they're even willing to consider marriage.

I am 33 years old. I had it rough getting started, let's just say I was sexualized at a very young age without even knowing what it was, and then given unrestricted internet access that you can imagine created problems for me.

I've been a Christian since I was like 5, and I've wrestled with this issue since I was like 16. Not trying to dig up years and years of therapy, but I'm not a typical guy, I have a lot of damage in this area.

Now days if I want to get married, assuming I can even find a woman that wants to date me (you'd be surprised how much of a struggle it is to find one), I am looking at months of "dating" before we are in a "relationship" followed by most likely years, and then finally we get married and I am finally allowed to have sex.

I personally don't think that's how it was meant to be, and I think we unduly suffer because of it. I think the church has abandoned us in this area.

I would recommend visiting overseas. The Philippines has a mostly Christian population, and the women there are absolutely lovely. They are looking for marriage, speak English well (most), and most are willing to move. Philippines has the lowest divorce rate of any country in the world based on their divorce laws. I have met many happy men who've married filipinas.

 

[Romans 8]

Divorce is a wrenching and heartbreaking process. I don't know anyone who likes to do it to make a profit or throw parties. Only to a psychopath might it be as normal as finding a new job or selling a car.

The "divorce party" was on the nightly news which is an example of how the media supports divorce. Why would you know them? And yes, divorce is very common today, I'm surprised you aren't aware.

Probably best if you don't reply to my comments, you obviously are still bitter from the other thread. Just relax and breathe.

 

[mama2one]

following

 

[Endeavourer]

I'll finish my posts to you up with a brief example from my journey:

I intended to date a variety of men and take at least a year before narrowing the field down to a more serious match. I had emerged from a 24 year marriage with an abusive man and was in NO hurry to make another poor choice. So I was probably worse than the typical woman you described in your initial post.

My husband and I crossed paths because we both had a love of a particular niche activity. He was more of a mind like you are and he meant business with relationships. We corresponded on email for a time and right off the bat he didn't hide behind a mask but showed a tender vulnerability towards me. He exposed who he was quite quickly. This accelerated my interest in him to the point that when he told me his last name about a week into our correspondence I found myself on edge to hear what my new last name would likely be!

Our dates were to spend whole Saturdays together. So how do you fill in a 14 hour date? Here's just one example of how he showed me that he was a safe partner. He liked to make steel cut oatmeal from scratch so I experimented with adding rhubarb to his oatmeal recipe and he loved it! He ate a trough of oatmeal every day so coming up with enough rhubarb to supply his oatmeal was a new mission. We found rhubarb on Craigslist, we scavenged from friends and neighbors and eventually we had enough rhubarb to last the whole town for a year. He came over to my house and we spent a day processing rhubarb and canning it. Neither of us had ever canned before - OR processed a ton of rhubarb - so we bumbled around learning and trying to build efficiency. What guy wants to spend 14 hours in a kitchen on their Saturday canning rhubarb? (or what girl?) When our day was over, I was even more in love with him than before because I saw how his work ethic, how he persevered kindly during frustrations, how well we worked together and how he was willing to step up to unattractive work. He ended up cutting breakfast out of his diet so we still have dozens of pints of canned rhubarb in our basement, lol. But what mattered was the journey, and being exposed to a character that was so beautiful I couldn't resist it.

Within a two weeks I knew he was THE one, but we didn't marry before 1 year just because I wanted to give our relationship the respect and test of time.

 

[Emosoundlogic]

The church has failed this arena in quite a few areas by imposing Pharisaical processes or expectations to the mate selection process.

However, giving the relationship enough time to know each other is really important.

Look at it from the female's perspective: she's selecting someone who many faith traditions teach will be her authority, will have 51% of the vote on all important decisions affecting her for the rest of her life (could just as well be 100%), and to whom she will be expected to submit in her day to day.

Basically, let's be blunt, if her faith teaches the traditional "submission" message, she's selecting who she should be enslaved to. The messages don't say it that way but that is the effect of such teaching. Some people will say "So what, that's what the Bible says!" Just spend a bit of time on this forum on threads that talk about gender roles and you'll see the usual uglies denigrating women and demanding their submission to their husband who they claim is not just her earthly authority but also her spiritual authority!

She will also be expected to apply kind words and winsome behaviors to an abusive husband because confronting him on it would challenge his masculinity. Also, they throw 1 Peter 3:1 at her out of context (Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives)

Some traditions impose church discipline on a woman when she is being abused because if she only would submit better her marriage wouldn't be bad.

You may think this ^^ all sounds like I am an agitated feminist.... not so. I'm a lay person volunteer ministering to abused spouses and I hear these heartbreaking stories ALL.THE.TIME. Further, I was raised in a tradition that did not give the messages described above as blunt as I did, but the takeaway was the same, and the outcome was the same.

So, from a woman's perspective, depending upon what type of emphasis her church puts on these matters, selecting a mate is a process that deserves as much time as she feels she needs in order to feel safe and confident in her choice.

In effect, the Pharisaical expectations by our churches placed on the wife AFTER the marriage is part of the failure you are experiencing.

Also, she's selecting a father for her children. She wants to see that you'll be able to keep your comportment in times of difficulty (both to her and the children), and that if she becomes a stay at home mom that you'll be a worthy and reliable partner to her. She is subjecting herself to a HIGH risk by depending upon you in that situation, so she needs to be sure of her choice.

Yeah, they're massively taking out of context that scripture... A husband is the owner of his wife's body, but she's the owner of his... The authority cancels each other out, the subjugation is to God only...

You also get a very jaded view of marriage, MOST men are not abusive, unless you are a feminist, then of course everything a man does IS abusive, because men are bad, mmkayyy.. Now, I get it, you're not one of those and I'm not attacking you.

My point is, I as a man, don't want a woman I can control... I don't want a woman I can tell to shut up and get in the kitchen... I cook my own meals, I do my own weekly meal prep, I look after my own health, and my own mental health... I'm educated, I work hard and have ambition...

What do I want from a wife? I want someone when I come home at night, and she does to, cause I'm assuming she's going to want to work, or not, I don't care either way, but at the end of the day for both of us, we can sit down together and share something. Either a TV series, or a video game (my preference), and have conversation that extends beyond the superficial high level.

I want to talk about the president, I want to talk about God, I want to talk about History, I want to talk about Fitness, Gaming, Technology... If she's passionate about basket weaving, let's talk about that! I honestly don't really care, I just want her to be present and be warm to me.

I'm not demanding a sex slave either... Once a week, twice preferably, and hell I'm good. If she doesn't want kids, perfectly fine with me, if she does, also fine with me. I see pro's and con's to both sides. But, I need to be touched, I need to be hugged, I need to be held, I need to know when I'm struggling that someone is going to hold my hand.

My only "authoritarian" request is that she be reasonably available sexually, mentally, and that she maintains a healthy body, as much as I also do for her. If that makes me an abusive husband, then yeah, I'm screwed, according to feminists it does.

 

[Emosoundlogic]

So what to do with my post above:

If you want my advice, when you find a woman you feel would be a great candidate, focus your behaviors such that she can get comfortable in these areas quicker. Show her that you won't be running roughshod rule over her. Show her that she can depend upon you to remain calm in the face of crises. Do working projects together on your dates so she can see how you handle frustrations and setbacks.

Place yourselves outside of fantasyland dinner dates and in situations where she can see who the real you is, not just the "best side" of you, but what's underneath and what she can expect 5, 10, 25 years down the road.

Also, refraining from sex before marriage is a **HUGE** testimony to her of how you put the health and needs of the two of you as a unit ahead of the needs of you as an individual. Even if she gives you indications that she wouldn't be so opposed to it. There's Scripture on this topic, but there's also quite a deep science behind why sex before marriage is not good for marriage. I can recommend an excellent resource on this if you are interested.

Find ways to show her who will she be living with day to day.

As I said before, I've been apart of several Christian Singles groups. One of the biggest complaint I have is they're not usually single! They're dating non-believers or other guys in the singles group, and effectively there isn't even a market, or I have to play the guessing game the entire time.

You show up for class, you go home... Everyone has a phone and an agenda, there's no hang out time, there's no let's get to know one another. There's plenty of lunches and "men's groups" and "women's groups", but there's no Co-ed groups designed around having conversation between the two of you.

The man has to take the lead, I don't have any issue asking a woman out, or even talking to them. But, I'm not going to chase them down, tackle them, and force them to have a conversation with me. I'm also not going to go around the room asking every woman I am interested in if they're single...

Again, I have no problem with abstaining from sex for a few months. I've done it before, it's hard, but I can do it. The only two girls that let me get that far with them to begin with, I couldn't see a life with. One wanted me to wait a year before she'd even consider the thought of getting engaged, the other had no interest in settling down yet, she wanted to pursue her professional career... (Something I wasn't pressuring her to do, and would have happily supported...)

I personally feel that, again this is going to sound like an attack, but I feel that women have unrealistic expectations. I'm suppose to show her I'm not a man to be feared, but I still have to command respect and not lot her walk on me... The dichotomies that men are expected to "balance" are unreal.

 

[Emosoundlogic]

Divorce is a wrenching and heartbreaking process. I don't know anyone who likes to do it to make a profit or throw parties. Only to a psychopath might it be as normal as finding a new job or selling a car.

Agreed, I think some guys have gotten ahold of some very fringe cases on reddit etc and are making that the standard for all women. I personally know several women who went through divorces. All of them were affected emotionally for the negative, although two of which were happy to be divorced, one of which for the 2nd time.

 

[Emosoundlogic]

The "divorce party" was on the nightly news which is an example of how the media supports divorce. Why would you know them? And yes, divorce is very common today, I'm surprised you aren't aware.

Probably best if you don't reply to my comments, you obviously are still bitter from the other thread. Just relax and breathe.

Very angsty...

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[Emosoundlogic]

not necessarily so

husband asked me out & 2 mos later we were engaged
we married 4 mos later so only knew him 6 mos
don't think he "planned" to ask as he didn't have a ring but next day he bought one for me

if one is ready for marriage and the right person comes along, there's no need to date years
often people who date for years aren't ready for a commitment

I've seen it, trust me, I know it exists. That's what I'd like for myself. I just don't know how to go about finding it... Where can I go as a 33 year old man, to meet Christian women who are single, and want to date? I'm in the U.S. BTW.

I can get on a dating site, for the 500th time, and be reminded again that I am not attractive physically, that I'm boring and uninteresting, and that woman don't want me...

I can go to yet another church singles group and play the guessing game on who is actually single, not to mention who is even my age, I have a horrific time trying to figure out women's ages, I've thought 20 year old's were 30 and vice versa. I would have very little in common with someone fresh in college, as much as I'd like to physically, I would also probably die 20-25 years before she would and I wouldn't want to leave her like that. I've seen my grandmother alone for the last 10 years and it's been so hard on her.

I can hope through sheer luck that I randomly bump into her in the store, at the gym, at a friday night pool party, or some other random chance meeting.

I try to avoid at all costs the idea of dating in the work place, and find that to be extremely anxiety inducing.

So as you can see, my options are very limited...

Also, I'm not some 400lb guy in my mom's basement... I'm 6'2'' 235, train 6 days a week in martial arts and strength training, I'm also in the top 10% of earners in the US, and I live by myself with my adorable cat Beast, I've sacrificed a lot to take care of my brother and his wife financially, and I visit my parents every weekend. I call my parents almost daily and they couldn't be more proud of me, my mother keeps telling me not to settle that I'm pure gold... I'm nowhere near perfect, and yeah she's gonna have to put up with a stubborn can't sit still achievaholic, but she's gonna have problems too...

Exactly what is it about me that's so unattractive?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Now days if I want to get married, assuming I can even find a woman that wants to date me (you'd be surprised how much of a struggle it is to find one), I am looking at months of "dating" before we are in a "relationship" followed by most likely years, and then finally we get married and I am finally allowed to have sex.

I asked my wife to marry me about a week before our first date. We were married within the year.

marriage is ALWAYS hard

Not always. I've been married for twenty years without a bump in the road. Maybe it's coming, but I don't see it.

Philippines has the lowest divorce rate of any country in the world based on their divorce laws.

I was just talking to a Filipino about that very subject. It's a farce. They don't have as many divorces, because they've replaced them with "annulments." It's the same thing, with different terminology.

 

[Endeavourer]

Yeah, they're massively taking out of context that scripture... A husband is the owner of his wife's body, but she's the owner of his... The authority cancels each other out, the subjugation is to God only...

Great stuff. Get her to BELIEVE it of you. Make a point to get into situations where you can demonstrate this so she can experience it.

You also get a very jaded view of marriage, MOST men are not abusive, unless you are a feminist, then of course everything a man does IS abusive, because men are bad, mmkayyy.. Now, I get it, you're not one of those and I'm not attacking you.

Thank you. I'm definitely not the type of feminist the media portrays whatsoever. I think many of that generation are being manipulated and brainwashed and don't realize it. To me feminism means seeing both genders as having equal value and worth, which probably also describes 80% of the US population.

My point is, I as a man, don't want a woman I can control... I don't want a woman I can tell to shut up and get in the kitchen...

I know we are both kind of caricaturing this concept, but if you can demonstrate how you value her it will help put her mind to ease on how you will participate in the household, if you will assign gender roles and what are the roles of your preference.

My marriage is very even handed in decisions (and after my previous experience it had to be or else I would have bolted) but we do have differences in our marriage based on gender. My husband is the one to strap the "protection" on his waist if we're taking a hike in the wilderness. He has a strong masculine (attractive!!) protective nature to him. He views himself as first in line to any danger - and has proven that. He steps up to the tasks requiring more strength, and to the yuckier tasks. He treats me like his queen to love and protect. What woman would not appreciate his interpretation of gender roles???

What do I want from a wife? I want someone when I come home at night, and she does to, cause I'm assuming she's going to want to work, or not, I don't care either way, but at the end of the day for both of us, we can sit down together and share something. Either a TV series, or a video game (my preference), and have conversation that extends beyond the superficial high level.

I want to talk about the president, I want to talk about God, I want to talk about History, I want to talk about Fitness, Gaming, Technology... If she's passionate about basket weaving, let's talk about that! I honestly don't really care, I just want her to be present and be warm to me.

Longer dates - like our 14 hour ones....lol - will showcase this part of your personality more quickly than the typical dinner/movie type of dates. The dates for the purpose of showcasing this and falling in love with each other quicker should be at least 4 hours long and should not include activities that don't use interaction (i.e. movies or TV). They should be interactive. The reason for the longer dates is that it necessarily gets you past the weather superficiality and into the types of conversations you are longing for. When she's drawn into your intellect and compassion she'll feel safer to move quicker.

I'm not demanding a sex slave either... Once a week, twice preferably, and hell I'm good. If she doesn't want kids, perfectly fine with me, if she does, also fine with me. I see pro's and con's to both sides. But, I need to be touched, I need to be hugged, I need to be held, I need to know when I'm struggling that someone is going to hold my hand.

My only "authoritarian" request is that she be reasonably available sexually, mentally, and that she maintains a healthy body, as much as I also do for her. If that makes me an abusive husband, then yeah, I'm screwed, according to feminists it does.

A woman is usually willing to have sex if she is emotionally close to a person and has the prospect of experiencing pleasure. We don't have testosterone, so on average our sexual drive is HIGHLY dependent upon our husband's sweetness (or not sweetness) prior to the opportunity for sex. For the average woman, you have more control over her desire for sex than she does. (There are always exceptions of course.)

Here's a great article that describes the concept of longer dates, how they stoke a wife's love for her husband and how they often lead to sex:

The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he...

So you would follow this pattern before marriage (without the sex of course), and focus on making deposits in her love bank during your dates.

 

[Emosoundlogic]

I'll finish my posts to you up with a brief example from my journey:

I intended to date a variety of men and take at least a year before narrowing the field down to a more serious match. I had emerged from a 24 year marriage with an abusive man and was in NO hurry to make another poor choice. So I was probably worse than the typical woman you described in your initial post.

My husband and I crossed paths because we both had a love of a particular niche activity. He was more of a mind like you are and he meant business with relationships. We corresponded on email for a time and right off the bat he didn't hide behind a mask but showed a tender vulnerability towards me. He exposed who he was quite quickly. This accelerated my interest in him to the point that when he told me his last name about a week into our correspondence I found myself on edge to hear what my new last name would likely be!

Our dates were to spend whole Saturdays together. So how do you fill in a 14 hour date? Here's just one example of how he showed me that he was a safe partner. He liked to make steel cut oatmeal from scratch so I experimented with adding rhubarb to his oatmeal recipe and he loved it! He ate a trough of oatmeal every day so coming up with enough rhubarb to supply his oatmeal was a new mission. We found rhubarb on Craigslist, we scavenged from friends and neighbors and eventually we had enough rhubarb to last the whole town for a year. He came over to my house and we spent a day processing rhubarb and canning it. Neither of us had ever canned before - OR processed a ton of rhubarb - so we bumbled around learning and trying to build efficiency. What guy wants to spend 14 hours in a kitchen on their Saturday canning rhubarb? (or what girl?) When our day was over, I was even more in love with him than before because I saw how his work ethic, how he persevered kindly during frustrations, how well we worked together and how he was willing to step up to unattractive work. He ended up cutting breakfast out of his diet so we still have dozens of pints of canned rhubarb in our basement, lol. But what mattered was the journey, and being exposed to a character that was so beautiful I couldn't resist it.

Within a two weeks I knew he was THE one, but we didn't marry before 1 year just because I wanted to give our relationship the respect and test of time.

Your story is very valid. Your pain is very real. Your process is logical. I would probably have done the same.

I would love nothing more than to spend 14 hours with a woman doing something like that. I'd probably show her my meal prep that takes 2 hours every sunday, play with my cat, take her for a walk across the street at the trails, and we could share a meal or two together.

Where I am, they call that clingy, needy, and immature... Exposing who I truly am? I had a first date with a girl where I told her exactly who I was, what I wanted, and what I was offering in return. She told me she didn't feel special because I was willing to give that to any woman I found appealing, and she needed to feel special, not to mention it was too desperate for her... Keep in mind she spent the prior 10 years sleeping around New York and literally told me that, but now wanted to find a real man that was Christian...

What the ....