Dates and Paying

[JennyKatz]

You have a weird misconception about what paying for a date means. It doesn't mean the woman is high and mighty and thinks the guy has to earn the right to be in her presence, it doesn't mean she's a spoiled brat, and it doesn't mean she's lazy.

There are tons of other examples where similar things like this happen. If you are a member of a golf and country club, and you invite a friend to play and eat with you, you are the one who pays for golf and dinner. It doesn't mean the friend you invited is saying, "You're so lucky to be with me, you ought to pay for me." or "I'm a golfing god and just for the opportunity to play with me, you should pay."

What an odd way of looking at things.

Wow.

Well put.
I think he's reading way too much into the act of paying for a date. For a lot of people, in a lot of places, it's simply social convention.
If you dislike paying for a date, don't, but don't automatically question the intentions of men who choose to do so. Maybe the act of the man paying for the date is a holdover from earlier decades when women made far less than their male counterparts (if they worked at all), but it's an arrangement that is still considered both acceptable and preferable in many areas.

 

[overit]

20Miles, you're view of what paying for a meal means is quite skewed. Look, I'll tell you this, MOST ladies do like it when a guy takes initiative to invite her out and pay for a date. If you constantly see giving to her as "throwing money to be in her presence"....what will happen is this: Most gals will see you as a cheap, and you most likely will spend a LOT of time single and not having repeat dates. You're welcome to handle it as you want but I'm telling you what will likely happen. At some point you might grow up a bit, but I'll also say there are guys that even in their 30's and 40's act and think like this, still alone and still seen as something to run from by the ladies.

 

[#1Brat]

My opinion on this is if the date is like a first date or just a date that is not too serious then it should be split payment. If the date is something that is someone who you have a serious relationship then I feel the guy should take up the bill unless it is otherwise discussed beforehand by the both of you. For example: If it is the guys birthday and the female wants to take him out then the girl should pay.

 

[GlennK]

My opinion on this is if the date is like a first date or just a date that is not too serious then it should be split payment. If the date is something that is someone who you have a serious relationship then I feel the guy should take up the bill unless it is otherwise discussed beforehand by the both of you. For example: If it is the guys birthday and the female wants to take him out then the girl should pay.

i like dis.

 

[20MoreMiles]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

20Miles, you're view of what paying for a meal means is quite skewed. Look, I'll tell you this, MOST ladies do like it when a guy takes initiative to invite her out and pay for a date. If you constantly see giving to her as "throwing money to be in her presence"....what will happen is this: Most gals will see you as a cheap, and you most likely will spend a LOT of time single and not having repeat dates. You're welcome to handle it as you want but I'm telling you what will likely happen. At some point you might grow up a bit, but I'll also say there are guys that even in their 30's and 40's act and think like this, still alone and still seen as something to run from by the ladies.

Well, before i became a born-again Christian, i had plenty of success, so don't start me about staying single with this thought of mind. It has nothing to do with being cheap, in fact in my relationships i've often bought jewelry or other presents, but i just don't see why i should pay for someone's dinner whom i barely know, and in fact just try to get to know.

You have a weird misconception about what paying for a date means. It doesn't mean the woman is high and mighty and thinks the guy has to earn the right to be in her presence, it doesn't mean she's a spoiled brat, and it doesn't mean she's lazy.

There are tons of other examples where similar things like this happen. If you are a member of a golf and country club, and you invite a friend to play and eat with you, you are the one who pays for golf and dinner. It doesn't mean the friend you invited is saying, "You're so lucky to be with me, you ought to pay for me." or "I'm a golfing god and just for the opportunity to play with me, you should pay."

What an odd way of looking at things.

Wow.

Well, that analogy doesn't fit. In the golf situation, both people know each other well and is introducing his/her friend to something new. Oftentimes, the other person pays for something later, or sometimes it's just a "gift".

But the point is: during a date, you don't know each other, and i don't see why i should give her money just because she's the woman and i'm the man, even though we make an equal amount of money in our modern society.

I've dated two guys that did that kind of stuff. The first one flat out told me that he thought I should have slept with him on the first date b/c of the flowers/wine/expensive meal he bought. Quality guy, eh?

The second one was my ex-husband - who is abusive and narcissistic.

I think I'll stick to guys that pay for the dates, thanks.

Well, this proves exactly my point. You brought up an example of someone giving these things to win your approval. When it's true love it's not about who pays for most food.

But i guess like you say, it's a cultural thing.

 

[BlackEssence]

First of all, why did "this" just so happen to appear under your post?

Buwahahahh!!! LOL! That was too funny to me! HAHAHAHAH! *AHEM! Sniff*


Ok, seriously, to answer you question, I want me and my man to take turns paying or contribute together to pay for something. Makes me feel so much better.

 

[Gwendolyn]

But the point is: during a date, you don't know each other, and i don't see why i should give her money just because she's the woman and i'm the man, even though we make an equal amount of money in our modern society.

I guess guys these days guys don't see it as just doing something nice for someone they have a budding fondness for. These days, they expect something. "If I pay for it, she'd better give me something in return" (whatever that is.) Or "I'm not spending my money on a lost cause."

How sad to see that chivalry is dying a slow death.

I wouldn't be inclined to date someone who was like "hey, I like you, wanna go on a date? Oh, but bring your own cash. I'm not doing anything nice for you because I don't know you."

That reeks of rudeness and selfishness to me.

And no, no decent woman would go on a date with a man, thinking, "This is GREAT, I don't have to pay a THING, and I get treated like a princess, to boot!"

Spoiled brats and princesses think like that. Decent women are neither, and are instead humbled by kindness, courtesy, and decency.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Oh, and also:

Well, that analogy doesn't fit. In the golf situation, both people know each other well and is introducing his/her friend to something new. Oftentimes, the other person pays for something later, or sometimes it's just a "gift".

It most certainly does fit. My father invites people to his golf club who he doesn't know, on a regular basis. Either for work, or because he doesn't know one of our neighbours and would like to get to know him better.

You don't only invite your friends along for a golf game.

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

My apologies.

But wouldn't you agree that paying for her food isn't using money just so to get her approval or her to like you? Wouldn't you feel like "I owe him something" after you let him pay for two dates with nothing in return, except for your presence? Call me a fool but i'm not going to pay a girl to be in my presence, or to somehow show my respect. I'll do that in a conventional way, one that doesn't involve throwing money at her.

Honestly, I'm in agreement with you here. If I were to be asked out on a date, I wouldn't expect to be wined and dined--its a getting to know you session that I intend on paying my part of. In fact, I might insist on paying my share, so there is no sense of "you owe me" in terms of a second date or something. I do not rate three hours of my presence and awkward conversation as being worth $50 a session.

Now if this isn't one of our first meetings (previously friends or something like that), then I wouldn't feel as obligated to keep it 50/50--I might insist on paying if it was my idea or I would be more willing to accept the offer for him to pay the bill.

 

[Im_A]

Originally Posted by 20MoreMiles

My apologies.

But wouldn't you agree that paying for her food isn't using money just so to get her approval or her to like you? Wouldn't you feel like "I owe him something" after you let him pay for two dates with nothing in return, except for your presence? Call me a fool but i'm not going to pay a girl to be in my presence, or to somehow show my respect. I'll do that in a conventional way, one that doesn't involve throwing money at her.
​

for me, paying for her 50 dollar dinner is not me trying to get her to like me, and she would get the clear indication that she doesn't owe me anything. why would she?

its just simply, if i have the money, and there's a girl that is interested in me and she wants to go out with me, i'll pay for her, and make her feel a little special for simple the fact that i want to. if she turns me down afterwards, then i'll wait for the next girl to take out and try to flatter her with paying for a nice dinner. if she turns me down afterwards, then i'll wait for the next girl to take out.

for me its nothing complicated. a girl wants to get to know me, and go out, i want to do my part to just say thanks for the time spent together, and hopefully i gave you a good time. and if there's a second date, or many other dates, then she knows what to expect, if not, then i'll give it to someone else. whooptie do dah

 

[20MoreMiles]

I guess guys these days guys don't see it as just doing something nice for someone they have a budding fondness for. These days, they expect something. "If I pay for it, she'd better give me something in return" (whatever that is.) Or "I'm not spending my money on a lost cause."

How sad to see that chivalry is dying a slow death.

I wouldn't be inclined to date someone who was like "hey, I like you, wanna go on a date? Oh, but bring your own cash. I'm not doing anything nice for you because I don't know you."

That reeks of rudeness and selfishness to me.

Selfishness????

So, you think when two people don't know each other, it's SELFISH when each has to pay for their own food?! The non-selfish option would be to have him pay for you? Explain to me how that works.


And i do think buying dinner is something nice, but only after you've gotten to know each other! Like i said, i was never holding back on those things in a relationship, but when you meet each other for the first time, i'm not gonna pay for her just to get to know her. Come on, where's the fairness in that?

And what's so "special" about having him pay for you when he doesn't even know you? One guy here says he's paying dinner for this girl, then the next, then the next, etc..... what's special about paying for a random girl that you don't know yet? It's about the MEANING behind the actions.

Oh, and also:

It most certainly does fit. My father invites people to his golf club who he doesn't know, on a regular basis. Either for work, or because he doesn't know one of our neighbours and would like to get to know him better.

You don't only invite your friends along for a golf game.

Okay, if it was such a normal thing, then tell me how often the woman pays for the entire dinner to "get to know him"? In my entire life i've never heard of that.

for me, paying for her 50 dollar dinner is not me trying to get her to like me, and she would get the clear indication that she doesn't owe me anything. why would she?

Why would she? How about because you just gave her 50 dollars just for being in your presence? I don't know about you, but i'd feel i'd owe her if she did that.

its just simply, if i have the money, and there's a girl that is interested in me and she wants to go out with me, i'll pay for her, and make her feel a little special for simple the fact that i want to. if she turns me down afterwards, then i'll wait for the next girl to take out and try to flatter her with paying for a nice dinner. if she turns me down afterwards, then i'll wait for the next girl to take out.

It's funny how on one hand you say you make her feel "special", nbut on the other hand, you talk about "the next girl", then pay the next girl after that, then the one after that....... what's special about that?! Sounds like buying a lottery ticket every time until you win.... not very romantic.

 

[Gwendolyn]

You keep talking about women who are appreciative when a man makes such a gesture, as if they are self-absorbed goddesses who merely deign to allow him to spend time in their presence.

That is an extremely distorted view of women.

I doubt you'd want to go out with a women who was so snotty.

I see it as... you like her, you'd like to do something nice for her. Just as, if I liked a guy and we wanted to become an item, I'd do something nice for him within my financial means.

I wouldn't go on a date with someone I didn't already know, though. I'd never go out with a stranger, and be in a situation that has romantic connotations. If he wants to get to know me, we can hang out as friends. Go to a movie, get coffee, where we both pay since there's no romantic expectation there. Go hiking or something.

I just think it's so weird that people use romantic situations as a means of "getting to know each other". Why would I want to be in a loaded situation with someone I don't know?

I guess people these days don't have any need for old social conventions. Which makes sense, I guess. Women are "just like men" now. But I'm tired of the insinuation that women like me are selfish, lazy, and high and mighty because we appreciate some chivalry. Oh, and that we look down on men and expect them to cater to us.

I am none of those things. I am simply old-fashioned, right down to desiring that, if I ever get engaged, my fiance will formally ask my parents for their approval. A marriage to me is still a merging of two families, and getting married without considering anyone else but my fiance and I isn't the way I want to go. The way I operate, my parents and I are in tune - if they are not fond of the man I am dating, chances are, something is amiss that I am missing (it has happened before - they saw through a guy I liked and saw him for what he was, bit it took me much longer to see it). My fiance will be a part of our family, so it is important to me that he fits well.

Oh well.

 

[Gwendolyn]

And what's so "special" about having him pay for you when he doesn't even know you? One guy here says he's paying dinner for this girl, then the next, then the next, etc..... what's special about paying for a random girl that you don't know yet? It's about the MEANING behind the actions.

Meaning, yes.

And if he outright refused to pay, I would see no attempt to be generous in that gesture. The meaning of the practice is outdated now, I suppose, so you can reject it if you like. But to many women, it still signals to them that the man is fond of them, that he would like to show them a good time, ensure that they are comfortable and such. If he asks them on the date, he is implicitly taking responsibility for the date. If he genuinely offers to pay, and means it, and is not secretly hoping that I'll say "No, it's okay, I'll pay my share," that means a lot to me. For him, usually, it displays a hint of generosity. No, not that they have cash to throw around... I'd definitely stay away from those types. But showing generosity in this way won't be the case for all men. They might show their generosity in other ways.

I suppose I am just very lucky, because even when my male friends ask me if I'd like to go to lunch or dinner with them, they always pay. I don't sit back and just go, "This is AWESOME, I don't have to pay a CENT, ohhhh yeahhhhhh". I always offer to pay my share, honestly, not just doing it out of courtesy. But they always insist, honestly, not just out of courtesy.

I think that it is extremely kind of them and I am humbled that my friends care about me and show it in that way. Not because they think they are expected to, but because they want to. I am not a selfish or money-grabbing person so it is not a source of greed or quiet self-satisfaction for me.

 

[Im_A]

Why would she? How about because you just gave her 50 dollars just for being in your presence? I don't know about you, but i'd feel i'd owe her if she did that.

well if we agreed to go to a expensive place to eat, and if i would go the route, that i normally do with paying for dates, then i asked for it myself and put myself in that situation. if i tell her "ok, where do you want to go its my treat", and normally it ends up being a mutual discussion and if we agree, and if it becomes expensive, hey, i should have been more picky if i were to expect "pay back."

It's funny how on one hand you say you make her feel "special", nbut on the other hand, you talk about "the next girl", then pay the next girl after that, then the one after that....... what's special about that?! Sounds like buying a lottery ticket every time until you win.... not very romantic.

well i'm realistic enough to know that, just because i take a girl out, that doesn't mean too much for anything in the future. i'm not out to make the girl feel so special in comparision to all other women. i'll do that when we're in a serious relationship. but i want to have a good time. i want her to feel somewhat special during that evening. plus, i take human interaction pretty seriously, so when i get it with a female in a going on a date kind of idea, that's a special occassion, regardless of the many dates that have failed before and here i am going out on another one. the other dates went no where. forget about those dates, forget about those girls, and focus on this one. why not make her feel special? who cares about the other failed dates? they don't matter anymore, its the past.

i don't go on dates to try to convince them to be with me, either for a relationship, or sexual things or anything like that since you compared my dating ideas to the lottery which means i'd have to be hoping to win something right? which is absurd of you to even compare. i don't go out on a date to win anything. i go out to have a good time. have some good laughs, some good food and some good drinks, and just have a good time with no expectations of anything. if it leads to something more like a relationship, great. if not, ok, that's cool too, but at least we had a good time together.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Also - this is still completely how business works. I mentioned the golf thing. This is common courtesy in business, as well - if you invite someone you don't know for a business lunch, or a networking lunch, you pay. Not because you're trying to do business with them, get money, close an account, or something, but because that is just the way of things. My dad isn't the money-grabbing sort who only takes people to lunch and golf and pays for them because he wants things - he does it to get to know people, to allow them to feel comfortable and secure and stuff.

Even if you invite someone that you know for a business lunch, if it was your idea and you invited them, it is common courtesy to cover the bill.

There are totally people who see these things as a business transaction - "I pay for lunch, they give me an account". Just like there are people who see dates as a transaction - "I pay for the date, she kisses me/does something more to 'repay' me". Those are rather sleazy. I'm not talking about those.

I am talking about goodwill and generosity, a benevolent intention, not ulterior motives.

 

[Im_A]

I am talking about goodwill and generosity, a benevolent intention, not ulterior motives.

exactly.

 

[Gwendolyn]

No decent man would have ulterior motives, and no decent woman would have ulterior motives, either.

 

[Im_A]

No decent man would have ulterior motives, and no decent woman would have ulterior motives, either.

its a complicated idea isn't it?

 

[20MoreMiles]

Oh, and that we look down on men and expect them to cater to us.

I'm not saying that you look down on them, but you DO expect them to cater for you.

I am none of those things. I am simply old-fashioned

Well, i think the idea that a man should pay for the lady's dinner when they hardly know each other is very old fashioned.... because it's based on the culture/society where the man makes the money, and the woman has little money but takes care of the children. And in that society, it made great sense for the man to pay. But we live in a different society now.... thank God.

So, i'm not for out-dated traditions that are based on things not in my world.

But to many women, it still signals to them that the man is fond of them

But the other guy just said he did it for every single date he had, and if she didn't like him, then it was "next". How is that any kind of special signal? All it means is that he's willing to spend money on you.

If he asks them on the date, he is implicitly taking responsibility for the date.

That is a very skewed way of looking at it. It is in our nature as humans that men do the asking girls out. Only men without cojones don't do it, and not out of principle, but because they're too afraid. So, with your appropriate construction, men would always have to pay.

But you're forgetting that by saying yes, the girl agrees to get to know him, why should he pay for everything then? It's always women asking their men to go shopping as well, should we say "well you asked me, so you have to pay for everything i buy"? Would you think that's reasonable?

I suppose I am just very lucky, because even when my male friends ask me if I'd like to go to lunch or dinner with them, they always pay. I don't sit back and just go, "This is AWESOME, I don't have to pay a CENT, ohhhh yeahhhhhh". I always offer to pay my share, honestly, not just doing it out of courtesy. But they always insist, honestly, not just out of courtesy.

It's great for you that that works, but for me, i don't consider a relationship (whether friendly or more) healthy when the other guy/girl always pays for everything. It makes me feel uncomfortable, even when it's as much as 10 dollar. Of course that doesn't mean that i split every bill, but i always take turns in paying.

well if we agreed to go to a expensive place to eat, and if i would go the route, that i normally do with paying for dates, then i asked for it myself and put myself in that situation. if i tell her "ok, where do you want to go its my treat", and normally it ends up being a mutual discussion and if we agree, and if it becomes expensive, hey, i should have been more picky if i were to expect "pay back."

Sure, it's your choice after all, though i don't recommend a "where should we go, it's my treat" attitude. Nothing will get you stuck in the friend zone, or in this case, the sugar uncle-zone, faster than that.

Also - this is still completely how business works. I mentioned the golf thing. This is common courtesy in business, as well - if you invite someone you don't know for a business lunch, or a networking lunch, you pay. Not because you're trying to do business with them, get money, close an account, or something, but because that is just the way of things. My dad isn't the money-grabbing sort who only takes people to lunch and golf and pays for them because he wants things - he does it to get to know people, to allow them to feel comfortable and secure and stuff.

So you're comparing love and romance, the true Love that God picks for you, to business now, which has as only purpose to make money?

I am talking about goodwill and generosity, a benevolent intention, not ulterior motives.

Well that's great, but tell me again, and this question has been avoided for a long time, how many women buy dinner on a date out of goodwill, generosity and a benevolent intention? Exactly, none. Does this mean women have no goodwill or generosity? Of course not, but it does show that the only reason most men pay for their dates, at this moment, is because of an out-dated tradition, the following of which has absolutely no logic reason.

 

[Im_A]

Sure, it's your choice after all, though i don't recommend a "where should we go, it's my treat" attitude. Nothing will get you stuck in the friend zone, or in this case, the sugar uncle-zone, faster than that.

well i'm getting close to 30 man. i've had many dates, been in quite a few relationships, been engaged once and ya know what, if a simple grammatical jesture towards a stranger and me being considerate to her liking with food, puts me in a friend zone? i'll put the seat belt on and be comfortable because that attitude has nothing to do with being a friend or more. its about being a decent human being and being considerate of other people's likings when your going out together.

thanks for the "warning" tho. i don't know if it has come across your mind while reading my responses. maybe i want my next relationship to be built around a friendship and not just jump head first with a stranger? is that odd to you?