Darwinism: Science or philosophy?

[D. Scarlatti]

None of the articles in gunnysgt's original post mention Hitler. Do creationists have a Hitler fixation?

Most of the Christians around here seem to put Bible verses in their signatures. Christian Soldier uses a quotation from Mein Kampf. Does anyone else find that rather ... unusual?

 

[AFI]

Scarlatti, that's a low blow.  He's using a famous quote to help show his standing on Darwinism.  Do not make something out of nothing.

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by AFI
Scarlatti, that's a low blow.

No, it's called a question, and it contains my opinion that Christian Soldier's signature is unusual. Would you not agree that a Christian incorporating the words of Adolf Hitler in his signature is unusual?

He's using a famous quote to help show his standing on Darwinism.

He is? The proprietor of the Hitler quotation himself said:

"I never said that the documented Hitler quote in my signature block was a profession of belief in Darwinian evolution."

Do not make something out of nothing.

Read this thread from its inception please. I want people to address the contents of gunnysgt's original post. I don't care about Hitler or Stalin or Mao. None of them are mentioned anywhere in the articles linked to by gunnysgt.


So, AFI, what have you to say about scaffolding and the co-option of unrelated functions by molecular processes, or, more specifically if you like, the referenced experiments of Brown and Goldstein?

 

[AFI]

I'm too stupid answer any of those questions.  Is this what I get for defending someone?  Public mockery?  Oh well, I'll take my time in the stocks, just no tomatoes to the face.

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Nobody's mocking you. It's just unfortunate that many of these threads, which potentially start out discussing an issue supposedly germane to this forum, end up either mired in totally irrelevant Hitler sidebars or else are completely abandoned by the individual that starts them. At this point this thread is both.

 

[AFI]

Heh, from now on I'll stay away from the table when the adults talk about buisness, playing with my Hot Wheels in the corner and watching.

 

[Christian Soldier]

"Most of the Christians around here seem to put Bible verses in their signatures. Christian Soldier uses a quotation from Mein Kampf. Does anyone else find that rather ... unusual?"

When the quotation proves that Hitler was blatantly anti-Christian, it's not unusual at all. I'm defending Christianity against the oft repeated lie that Hitler was a Christian.

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by D. Scarlatti
Most of the Christians around here seem to put Bible verses in their signatures. Christian Soldier uses a quotation from Mein Kampf. Does anyone else find that rather ... unusual?

The point isn't in the source of the quote, but what it says and iplies -- that Hitler was far from being a Christian.

I guess you'd rather attack the one who posted the quote, since you can't deny the quote itself. That's pretty silly.

 

 

[blader]

Hitler was far from Christian? Give me one quote where Hitler explicitly said that he is NOT a Christian.

Okay, here:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)



... and yet they still say he wasn't a Christian? That's laughable, to say the least.



Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

About a hundred or so more quotes indicating Hitler's Christianity is available here:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm


The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life....
The National Government regard the two Christian Confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed....
It will be the Government's care to maintain honest co-operation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith.
The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933


Here are PICTURES of Hitler the CHRISTIAN:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

Here are quotes from Hitler's CHRISTIAN henchmen:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/henchmen.htm


Hitler WAS a Christian, there is no doubt in my mind.

As I said, show me one quote where Hitler explicit says "I am not a Christian." Go ahead, prove me wrong. Interestingly, there's no shortage of quotes where he says "I AM a Christian."

 

[Christian Soldier]

"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition.

The objection may very well be raised that such phenomena in world history arise for the most part from specifically Jewish modes of thought, in fact, that this type of intolerance and fanaticism positively embodies the Jewish nature. This may be a thousand times true; we may deeply regret this fact and establish with justifiable loathing that its appearance in the history of mankind is something that was previously alien to history---yet this does not alter the fact that this condition is with us today. The men who want to redeem our German people from its present condition have no need to worry their heads thinking how lovely it would be if this and that did not exist; they must try to ascertain how the given condition can be eliminated. A philosophy filled with infernal intolerance will only be broken by a new idea, driven forward by the same spirit, championed by the same mighty will, and at the same time pure and absolutely genuine in itself.

The individual may establish with pain today that with the appearance of Christianity the first spiritual terror entered into the far freer ancient world, but he will not be able to contest the fact that since then the world has been afflicted and dominated by this coercion, and that coercion is broken only by coercion, and terror only by terror. Only then can a new state of affairs be constructively created."

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (1925), p. 454-455, Houghton Mifflin Co., 1971 ed.

 

[blader]

Like I said, show me a quote where Hitler says that he is not a Christian. I only see quotes where he says he IS a Christian. Where does he deny that he is a Christian in the above quote? He is merely criticizing it. I'm an atheist, and I can criticize atheism. That seems to be what he is doing as well.

Show me quote where he says he is NOT a Christian. Go ahead.

Once again:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

 

[Christian Soldier]

Adolf Hitler and Italian Fascist leader Benito Mussolini together in Munich, June 18, 1940. (Photo credit: U.S. National Archives)

 

[blader]

Originally posted by Christian Soldier
Adolf Hitler and Italian Fascist leader Benito Mussolini together in Munich, June 18, 1940. (Photo credit: U.S. National Archives)

Uhm, is this the best you can do? How does that picture in ANY way say that Hitler isn't a Christian?

I suppose this makes Nixon an atheist communist then??

Oh, and btw:

Hitler praying

The caption reads: "Der ergreifende Abschlub der Kundgebung in Wien: Wir treten zum Beten..."

[The touching and emotional end of the rally in Vienna: Let us pray...]
Hitler leaves the Marine Church in Wilhelmshaven.

Hitler wth Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin

Hitler leaving Church.


By the way, still waiting for some kind of explanation/refutal of the "As a Christian" speech by Hitler, the alleged non-Christian.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Excerpt from my previous quote, proving that Hitler intended to ELIMINATE Christianity:

"The men who want to redeem our German people from its present condition have no need to worry their heads thinking how lovely it would be if this and that did not exist; they must try to ascertain how the given condition [Christianity] can be eliminated."

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by blader
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Blader, notice the source: take from a speech that Hitler presented. Hitler was a good actor. He taped videos of himself practicing different dramatic poses and gestures with which to lure his audience. What needed to be said was said, simply. It's called a political agenda.

Believe it or not, i've even seen a photo of Hitler walking out of a Church. It's propaganda, to make German Christian citizens think, "Unserer Furher ist ein Christ!"

Read the book Hitler's Cross, by Erwin W. Lutzer and Ravi K. Zacharias.

 

 

[blader]

Originally posted by Christian Soldier
Excerpt from my previous quote, proving that Hitler intended to ELIMINATE Christianity:

"The men who want to redeem our German people from its present condition have no need to worry their heads thinking how lovely it would be if this and that did not exist; they must try to ascertain how the given condition [Christianity] can be eliminated."

First of all, from the FOURTH time, you have not been able to provide a quote where Hitler DENIES that he PERSONALLY is a Christian. Whereas I was able to provide a quote where he REPEATEDLY says that he IS a Christian. The above point is already moot. However, here's the full quote:

The objection may very well be raised that such phenomena in world history arise for the most part from specifically Jewish modes of thought, in fact, that this type of intolerance and fanaticism positively embodies the Jewish nature. This may be a thousand times true; we may deeply regret this fact and establish with justifiable loathing that its appearance in the history of mankind is something that was previously alien to history---yet this does not alter the fact that this condition is with us today. The men who want to redeem our German people from its present condition have no need to worry their heads thinking how lovely it would be if this and that did not exist; they must try to ascertain how the given condition can be eliminated. A philosophy filled with infernal intolerance will only be broken by a new idea, driven forward by the same spirit, championed by the same mighty will, and at the same time pure and absolutely genuine in itself.

It's clear that he's talking about "Jewish modes of thought" and "Jewish nature", and NOT Christianity. In fact, Christianity isn't even MENTIONED AT ALL in the above paragraph. Nice try.

Still waiting for some evidence refuting the "As a Christian" speech.

 

[blader]

Originally posted by alexgb00


Blader, notice the source: take from a speech that Hitler presented. Hitler was a good actor. He taped videos of himself practicing different dramatic poses and gestures with which to lure his audience. What needed to be said was said, simply. It's called a political agenda.

Believe it or not, i've even seen a photo of Hitler walking out of a Church. It's propaganda, to make German Christian citizens think, "Unserer Furher ist ein Christ!"

Read the book Hitler's Cross, by Erwin W. Lutzer and Ravi K. Zacharias.

 

So now you're saying that quotes from Hitler can't be trusted? Funny how you guys were trying to use quotes to prove that he's NOT a Christian, yet when the dice rolls right back in your face, it's no longer a valid source? How convenient.

Here's about a hundred quotes from Mein Kamph, the same book CS took his quote from:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

You guys can try to spin it however you want, but that "As a Christian" speech by itself pretty much seals the deal in any reasonable person's mind. The only refutal anyone could come up with is: "When Hitler says he's a Christian, he's lying. When Hitler says he's not a Christian, he's telling the truth."

 

[Christian Soldier]

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity."

Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Secret Conversations

 

[alexgb00]

Man, Blader, that's the photo i mentioned. Let us reason here:

1. If Hitler was an atheist, a photo like the ones above would turn a portion of the weakly Christians to him.

2. If Hitler was a Christian, why would he want to be photographed in such an obvious manner and have the photos widely distributed?

It makes sense that Adolf Hitler was a hard-core atheist. I can't help but say that anyone who believes the opposite from these photos must be a total sucker. And i have an island for sale in the Indian ocean.
:

 

[blader]

Originally posted by Christian Soldier
The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.

Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Secret Conversations

First, I asked for a direct quote from Hitler (something he said or wrote), that says he is not a Christian. This has still not been provided.

Nevermind about the source. It seems valid enough. =)