Darwin - Half Right

[AV1611VET]

It is weird to see an American be so fixated on a very specific English translation of the Bible.

Ahem ... God used you guys to give us that Translation, don't forget.

 

[Oneiric1975]

Only a scientist or college student would expect to be presented that kind of evidence.

Or a rational person who is looking for something that is hand-crafted to be PERFECTLY UNFALSIFIABLE.

They can't find evidence of two million Israelites having lived in the Sinai Pennisula

Yeah, that's definitely a problem. There's almost no evidence for the Exodus at all.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Ahem ... God used you guys to give us that Translation, don't forget.

No, it's still weird because I've often found that American Christians (not all but enough) have a very... I'm not actually going to complete that because it will really derail the thread and might also get mods involved because it steps into... fairly murky waters.

 

[sjastro]

You know as well as I do that any pre-tower autographs would have crumbled to dust.

The only thing written in Jacobean English in the handwriting of the human authors now comprise Genesis 1 - 10.

Anything after Genesis 10 would not have been written in Jacobean English.

To expect a Jacobean writing to have been dug up somewhere is just ludicrous.

Did it ever occur to you inscriptions can be found on other more permanent materials.
Here is a hint for you what where the Ten Commandments written on?
The Diary of Merer was written on papyrus dating back to 2600 BC.

Your argument is also a logical fallacy because claiming there is no evidence of 'autographs' doesn't prove Jacobean English existed in the dim dark past.

 

[Oneiric1975]

No, it's still weird because I've often found that American Christians (not all but enough) have a very... I'm not actually going to complete that because it will really derail the thread and might also get mods involved because it steps into... fairly murky waters.

Go ahead and say it. We can take it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Go ahead and say it. We can take it.

No, I'm going to bow out on that particular topic. It's... it's a dangerous one, I think.

 

[AV1611VET]

If Jacobean English was the hallmark of perfection in Bible language why does the only KNOWN Jacobean English version of the Bible utilize SO HEAVILY non-English source material?

As I understand it, their template was the Masoretic Text, but only to a point.

If God wanted a word updated, they changed it.

That's how we got our word "Easter".

Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

You don't think they should have started from scratch, do you?

 

[Oneiric1975]

No, I'm going to bow out on that particular topic. It's... it's a dangerous one, I think.

In all reality, the translation of the Bible into vernacular tongues is an amazing story. The politics behind hiding it behind Latin in the European Church, the controversies around the various older translations, etc. The book about the writing of the KJV is really good: "God's Secretaries" by Adam Nicolson is a great read. Highly recommend it.

 

[Oneiric1975]

As I understand it, their template was the Masoretic Text, but only to a point.

If God wanted a word updated, they changed it.

That's how we got our word "Easter".

Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

You don't think they should have started from scratch, do you?

They did as well as they could to go to oldest known sources whenever they possibly could. Meaning the highest value sources were NOT ENGLISH.

I mean I would understand your point if you thought that God leaned in and helped the 17th century "Secretaries" employed by King James to get the right translation into English. But I'm REALLY struggling with why you feel the need to hypothesize a completely unfounded idea like Adam writing it in Jacobean English eons before that language even came into existence.

It really boggles the mind why this is necessary.

 

[AV1611VET]

But one other danger is that over the course of hundreds of years as language changes suddenly the holy book no longer "speaks" to modern readers or it is very difficult for them to read.

Are you familiar with this verse?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If so, do you know what is meant by the word of God being "quick"?

It is just as pertinent for us today as the day It was written.

And we will not only be judged from It in Heaven, but we will judge angels from It.

 

[AV1611VET]

Or a rational person who is looking for something that is hand-crafted to be PERFECTLY UNFALSIFIABLE.

This falsifiability stuff is a human construct that works well with science.

But not with the supernatural.

The fact that we can't falsify miracles and such simply shows falsifiability's limit.

Or, as I'm so fond of saying: science is myopic.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, it's still weird because I've often found that American Christians (not all but enough) have a very... I'm not actually going to complete that because it will really derail the thread and might also get mods involved because it steps into... fairly murky waters.

Been spending too much time at FSTDT, have you?

Again, it was England that gave us that Bible (God actually, but He used England for His office).

So what are you harping about?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Been spending too much time at FSTDT, have you?

Again, it was England that gave us that Bible (God actually, but He used England for His office).

So what are you harping about?

I actually haven't touched FSTDT in... good Lord, how long has it been now? Nearly a decade, I think. Certainly feels that long.

But, no, as I said, I'm not touching the subject I was originally going to say because it might be against forum and website rules.

But your desire to have Adam and all the world up the time of the Tower of Babel speaking Jacobean English is very, very, very, VERY weird.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did it ever occur to you inscriptions can be found on other more permanent materials.

If they aren't Jacobean English, they came after, not before, the Tower of Babel.

Here is a hint for you what where the Ten Commandments written on?

Two tables of stone, front and back, in God's own handwriting -- twice.

The Diary of Merer was written on papyrus dating back to 2600 BC.

And how did that come about, when Egypt came from Noah's grandson, Mizraim?

 

[AV1611VET]

In all reality, the translation of the Bible into vernacular tongues is an amazing story. The politics behind hiding it behind Latin in the European Church, the controversies around the various older translations, etc. The book about the writing of the KJV is really good: "God's Secretaries" by Adam Nicolson is a great read. Highly recommend it.

Codex Vaticanus = hidden away in the Vatican.
Codex Sianaticus = found in a trash can.

The common people wouldn't touch those things, and God wouldn't let His word dwindle down to just two books somewhere.

 

[sjastro]

If they aren't Jacobean English, they came after, not before, the Tower of Babel.Two tables of stone, front and back, in God's own handwriting -- twice.And how did that come about, when Egypt came from Noah's grandson, Mizraim?

None of your responses make any sense.

 

[stevil]

I've always wondered why some people are so determined to sweep Evolution under the rug.
Those people typically don't understand what evolution is, and have a high level of personal incredulity.

When I get religious folk knocking at my door, the very first ones I close the door on are the ones where their belief system needs their believers to reject evolution.

 

[AV1611VET]

But your desire to have Adam and all the world up the time of the Tower of Babel speaking Jacobean English is very, very, very, VERY weird.

Fine -- I can live with that.

If you have a better idea, let's hear it.

What specifically was that single language mentioned here?

Genesis 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

Was it Hebrew? Greek? some Heavenly language? Egyptian? Swahili? Latin? Chamorro?

What exactly?

 

[AV1611VET]

None of your responses make any sense.

Then get a Biblical education, instead of railing against those who have one.

How long have you been a Christian now (praise the LORD)?

And none of my responses make any sense?

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

 

[AV1611VET]

I've always wondered why some people are so determined to sweep Evolution under the rug.
Those people typically don't understand what evolution is, and have a high level of personal incredulity.

One doesn't need to know the ins and outs of evolution, if one believes evolution's antithesis.

I don't have to know what a "least common ancestor" is, if I believe in creation.