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Daniel's 70th week

jgr

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So you disagree with Daniel 9:27...where the abomination is in the middle of the 70th week..and you think the abominations that causes desolation is 30+ years from what Daniel said because of history?

Does Daniel 9:27 disagree with Daniel 9:26?
 
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jgr

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How would I know, or how would anyone know, what the writer of Hebrews 10 thought about Daniel 9:27 one way or the other? I don't see where he discloses that to us in Hebrews 10. But that aside, in order for that writer to have believed the he in Daniel 9:27 to be meaning Jesus, he would have also had to have believed that the prince that shall come in Daniel 9:26 is also meaning Jesus, since it's obvious that the pronouns in verse 27 have to be referring to the prince that shall come in verse 26, and that he would have been intelligent enough to easily grasp that fact.

I have no doubt that he believed exactly what you've stated.
 
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Christian Gedge

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So what you're saying that the 70th week of Daniel 9 where it must ended at the city being made desolate is extended for another 36yrs (from ad34 where the 70th week is finished to ad70 where desolation is complete)...

So God must have been wrong in saying that 70th week means (7yrs) not 7years then extra 36yrs after that (from ad34-ad70)....

No, the 70th week ended in AD 34. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple did not take place within the actual seventy weeks; the prophet was simply providing information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.
 
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DavidPT

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Does Daniel 9:27 disagree with Daniel 9:26?


Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Obviously, since the pronouns in verse 27 have to be referring to the prince that shall come in verse 26, this same prince has to be alive at the time in order to fulfill all of Daniel 9:27. This tells us that this part---and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary--fits with this part---and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate--which then makes this part---and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined---fit with this part---even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


IOW---and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined---begins to happen in the midst of the 70th week. Therefore Jesus couldn't possibly be meant anywhere in Daniel 9:27.
 
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pasifika

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Does Daniel 9:27 disagree with Daniel 9:26?
Of course not...it how we understand and interpret the verses is the difference...

Clearly the 70th week is the last week (7yrs) in the prophecy...and Daniel clearly mentioned the events that will happened with this 70th week and the Abomination of desolation is in the middle of this final week prophecy not 30 plus years outside the 70weeks prophecy already given to Daniel...

We are trying to look at history to determine the event happen in the bible instead we must look at the bible first to show us where in history things from the bible took place or will take place in the future...
 
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jgr

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Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Obviously, since the pronouns in verse 27 have to be referring to the prince that shall come in verse 26, this same prince has to be alive at the time in order to fulfill all of Daniel 9:27. This tells us that this part---and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary--fits with this part---and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate--which then makes this part---and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined---fit with this part---even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


IOW---and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined---begins to happen in the midst of the 70th week. Therefore Jesus couldn't possibly be meant anywhere in Daniel 9:27.

Jesus was alive and well in 70 AD.

In heaven.

Commanding and controlling the Roman armies, His instruments of judgment and destruction.
 
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DavidPT

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No, the 70th week ended in AD 34. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple did not take place within the actual seventy weeks; the prophet was simply providing information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.


There is not a single thing in all of Daniel 9:27 that takes place outside of the 70th week. Until some of you grasp that fact, though I have doubts that some of you ever will, the fact some of you seem to be too stubborn to admit you could be wrong here, you will continue to misinterpret Daniel 9:27 in the meantime.
 
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jgr

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Of course not...it how we understand and interpret the verses is the difference...

Clearly the 70th week is the last week (7yrs) in the prophecy...and Daniel clearly mentioned the events that will happened with this 70th week and the Abomination of desolation is in the middle of this final week prophecy not 30 plus years outside the 70weeks prophecy already given to Daniel...

We are trying to look at history to determine the event happen in the bible instead we must look at the bible first to show us where in history things from the bible took place or will take place in the future...

Daniel 9:26 says that the desolations would occur during the war.

What year was the war?
 
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Christian Gedge

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There is not a single thing in all of Daniel 9:27 that takes place outside of the 70th week. Until some of you grasp that fact, though I have doubts that some of you ever will, the fact some of you seem to be too stubborn to admit you could be wrong here, you will continue to misinterpret Daniel 9:27 in the meantime.

Here is the text in the NKJVersion with my notes inserted in color.

After the sixty-two weeks Messiah (Jesus) shall be cut off, but not for himself; and the people (Roman troops in ad 70) of the prince who is to come (Titus, a roman general and prince) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined.

He (Messiah) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week (3½ yrs after his revealing) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (temple curtain torn) And on the wing of abominations (ongoing sacrifice an abomination) shall be one who makes desolate, (Titus destroys temple) even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. (judgement on Jerusalem)
As you can see, the fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple did not take place within the actual seventy weeks; the prophet was simply providing information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.
 
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DavidPT

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Jesus was alive and well in 70 AD.

In heaven.

Commanding and controlling the Roman armies, His instruments of judgment and destruction.


That part in Daniel 9:26, the part after Messiah is cutoff, that part has to fit during the 70th week. There is no way that is possible unless there is a gap somewhere in the 70 weeks, except many of you are claiming no gaps at all. If that part was somehow about the events of 70 AD, that means there still would have to be a gap in the 70 weeks in order for that part to fit with the 70th week.
 
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jgr

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That part in Daniel 9:26, the part after Messiah is cutoff, that part has to fit during the 70th week. There is no way that is possible unless there is a gap somewhere in the 70 weeks, except many of you are claiming no gaps at all. If that part was somehow about the events of 70 AD, that means there still would have to be a gap in the 70 weeks in order for that part to fit with the 70th week.

Daniel 9:26 says that the desolations would occur during the war.

What year was the war?
 
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pasifika

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No, the 70th week ended in AD 34. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple did not take place within the actual seventy weeks; the prophet was simply providing information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.
Thank you, so the "He" in Daniel 9:27 is the one who made the covenant, same one who ceased sacrifices and offering and also do the abomination that causes desolation...

Daniel 9:27...He will confirm the covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the seven He will put an end to sacrifice and offering and at the temple he will set up the Abomination that causes desolation....

So, your post #794 state that the overspreading of abominations is from ad30-ad70 was this abominations by the same person in Daniel 9:27 which is Jesus?
 
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DavidPT

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Daniel 9:26 says that the desolations would occur during the war.

What year was the war?


The question is, what war is meant? I tend to think it's meaning the war recorded in Revelation 13 for one. There would then be no no way at this point in time for me tell you what year this war is.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.



What I have underlined in Daniel 9:26-27, IMO this is referring to the same events recorded in the book of Revelation via these 4 passages above. IOW, there is no literal city nor literal temple being meant in Daniel 9:26-27 to begin with.
 
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Christian Gedge

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So, your post #794 state that the overspreading of abominations is from ad30-ad70 was this abominations by the same person in Daniel 9:27 which is Jesus?

Make that, "the overspreading of abominations from ad30-ad70 were the abominations performed by the high priest, who each year slew animals to atone for the sins of the people." Jesus had already completed the atonement! Can you not see how blasphemous an ongoing animal sacrifice was after Jesus had said it was finished?
 
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pasifika

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Daniel 9:26 says that the desolations would occur during the war.

What year was the war?
Desolation is decreed at the "end"..war will continue until the end, and desolation have been decreed...
Not during the war, but at the end...Daniel 9:26...
When is the "end"?
 
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jgr

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The question is, what war is meant? I tend to think it's meaning the war recorded in Revelation 13 for one. There would then be no no way at this point in time for me tell you what year this war is.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.



What I have underlined in Daniel 9:26-27, IMO this is referring to the same events recorded in the book of Revelation via these 4 passages above. IOW, there is no literal city nor literal temple being meant in Daniel 9:26-27 to begin with.

Where does Revelation speak of a Daniel 9:26 war in which desolations are determined?
 
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jgr

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Desolation is decreed at the "end"..war will continue until the end, and desolation have been decreed...
Not during the war, but at the end...Daniel 9:26...
When is the "end"?

If we know what year the war was, we can know when its end was.

What year was the war?
 
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pasifika

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Make that, "the overspreading of abominations from ad30-ad70 were the abominations performed by the high priest, who each year slew animals to atone for the sins of the people." Jesus had already completed the atonement! Can you not see how blasphemous an ongoing animal sacrifice was after Jesus had said it was finished?
Was the "He" in Daniel 9:27 The same person throughout this verse which is Jesus or Two different persons Jesus and the High Priest?

Isn't the same "He" who ceased sacrifices and offering the same he who set up the Abomination that causes desolation...
 
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pasifika

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If we know what year the war was, we can know when its end was.

What year was the war?
Jerusalem has been in many wars even after AD70..and still continue in our time...
Until war ceased then we know it's the end...
 
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Christian Gedge

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Isn't the same "He" who ceased sacrifices and offering the same he who set up the Abomination that causes desolation...

No, the person who caused the sacrifice to cease was Christ. His death was the final sacrifice! When they stitched up the curtain and resumed animal sacrifices, they did so because they had rejected his atonement - the unforgivable sin!
 
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