Daniel's 70th week

[pasifika]

Correct - and this man was someone that Paul (and his followers) knew of.....in THEIR time. Paul had even promised his followers that they would receive relief from their persecution in the tribulation to those that troubled THEM (this isn't written to US):

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 ~ And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.​

....and that THEY would receive rest “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God” . ~ II Thessalonians 2 and the Man of Lawlessness

2 Thessalonians 1:7 ~ And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us [Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy] when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels​

Matthew 24:15-16 ~ “The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place.” (Reader, pay attention) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

Hello, so do you have any records of such event taken place where the man of sin sitting in the temple proclaiming Himself to be God as in 2Thessalonians 2:4 anytime after Paul wrote that letter?

All writings in NT is written to the church..and the church is made up of Israel and gentiles Ephesians 2:14-16...
The event in Matthew 24:15-16, 2Thessalonians 2:4 spoken by Jesus and Paul are for the church but specifically to our brothers and sisters in Jerusalem...this is future

 

[mkgal1]

"The age to come" that is mentioned has to do with the fulfillment of Daniel 7:9-14 - when the "Son of Man" executes judgment over the "beasts" that had been ruling and takes their dominion away from them. It's when He received His everlasting kingdom in glory (v 14). When Paul had written 1 Corinthians - this had yet to be fulfilled:

1 Corinthians 2:6-8 ~ Among the mature, however, we speak a message of wisdom—but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God, which He destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Matthew 23:2 ~ Truly I tell you, not one stone will be left here upon another; all will be thrown down."

v. 3 The disciples then asked: "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" – notice here that they also link the tearing down of the temple with the “end of the age”. Some people divide these questions up - and explain it as separate events - but I believe that completely changes most of the Gospel. This "coming" isn't His future return - but His "coming in glory"....His taking His throne in heaven. ​

 

[mkgal1]

Hello, so do you have any records of such event taken place where the man of sin sitting in the temple proclaiming Himself to be God as in 2Thessalonians 2:4 anytime after Paul wrote that letter?

All writings in NT is written to the church..and the church is made up of Israel and gentiles Ephesians 2:14-16...
The event in Matthew 24:15-16, 2Thessalonians 2:4 spoken by Jesus and Paul are for the church but specifically to our brothers and sisters in Jerusalem...this is future

These words were written by Paul to the church at Thessalonica (not Jerusalem) in 52 AD 2 Thessalonians Bible Timeline - so why are you placing these events in the future......to a completely different audience.....thousands of years later?

If this was not fulfilled, then those that Paul had written to never received the "relief" Paul had promised them. Also....those that Paul mentioned that were going to be repaid for their tribulation they'd caused the early church never were (IF this were future and left unfulfilled). So....what do you make of that? Was Paul mistaken in making these predictive promises? Was he offering false hope - just to calm the church at Thessalonica down?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

 

[pasifika]

So you don't believe Christ has yet redeemed His people from the sins committed under the old covenant? Scripture disagrees with you then. Christ did redeem his people

Hebrews 9:15 now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

You don't believe Christ has yet put away sin for His people? Scripture disagrees with you then. Christ did put away sin through his sacrifice.

Hebrews 9:26 . But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

You don't believe Christ atoned for the sins of his people yet? Scripture disagree with you then. Christ did atone for the sins of his people

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people.

You don't believe Christ has brought in everlasting righteousness for his people? Scripture disagrees with you then. All the righteous requirements of God are now fulfilled in His people through Christ.

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

You don't believe Christ sealed up vision and prophecy? Scripture disagrees with you then. Christ fulfilled everything about him in the law, prophets, and psalms

Luke 24:44 Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms

You don't believe Christ is the most Holy that was annointed? Scripture disagree with you. Christ is the most Holy that was anointed.

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power

Each of 6 points is fulfilled in His people, because of His awesome works. That is the gospel. That is good news. What good news are you preaching if these have not yet been fulfilled in those who are in Christ?

One word will explain hebrew9:15, Hebrews 9:26...etc this is called sanctification...our redemption and putting away of sins is a process a cleansing process...we will still stumble and fall but not beyond recovery but eventually at the end we overcome sin and the redemption of our bodies certain...

Romans 8:23..." Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies..,.

Philippians 3:12...Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

....forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead....

 

[pasifika]

These words were written by Paul to the church at Thessalonica (not Jerusalem) in 52 AD 2 Thessalonians Bible Timeline - so why are you placing these events in the future......to a completely different audience.....thousands of years later?

If this was not fulfilled, then those that Paul had written to never received the "relief" Paul had promised them. Also....those that Paul mentioned that were going to be repaid for their tribulation they'd caused the early church never were (IF this were future and left unfulfilled). So....what do you make of that? Was Paul mistaken in making these predictive promises? Was he offering false hope - just to calm the church at Thessalonica down?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

I said the event in 2Thessalonians 2:2-4, Matthew 24:15...is future and in Jerusalem (Israel )..

 

[mkgal1]

I said the event in 2Thessalonians 2:2-4, Matthew 24:15...is future and in Jerusalem (Israel )..

So why would Paul write to a group of people in Greece (Thessalonia) thousands of years ago if this had nothing to do with them? You seem to be missing what Paul said about their (the people he was writing to - in 52 AD) relief that he was promising they'd experience. Can we address that?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

 

[pasifika]

So why would Paul write to a group of people in Greece (Thessalonia) thousands of years ago if this had nothing to do with them? You seem to be missing what Paul said about their (the people he was writing to - in 52 AD) relief that he was promising they'd experience. Can we address that?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

The same thing as Jesus said in Luke 21:28...as you see those things happen lift up your heads because your redemption is near....

So if we see those main events taken place we (church) knows that the coming of our God is very very near...so is like a sign post telling us that we are near to our destination...

 

[mkgal1]

The same thing as Jesus said in Luke 21:28...as you see those things happen lift up your heads because your redemption is near....

So if we see those main events taken place we (church) knows that the coming of our God is very very near...so is like a sign post telling us that we are near to our destination...

It seems like you're suggesting that those specific people that Paul wrote to - in your belief of this remaining in the future - never experienced the rest from oppression Paul promised.

 

[pasifika]

So why would Paul write to a group of people in Greece (Thessalonia) thousands of years ago if this had nothing to do with them? You seem to be missing what Paul said about their (the people he was writing to - in 52 AD) relief that he was promising they'd experience. Can we address that?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

Are you saying christian nowadays are not facing oppression, affliction, etc like those in the time Paul wrote his letter?

We, get relief when the Lord is revealed from heaven...again is the second coming

 

[pasifika]

It seems like you're suggesting that those specific people that Paul wrote to - in your belief of this remaining in the future - never experienced the rest from oppression Paul promised.

So if you think that Paul's letter or any of the NT or even the whole bible is only for the people in their time than why are we talking about Jesus or His teaching and salvation etc no point

 

[mkgal1]

The same thing as Jesus said in Luke 21:28...as you see those things happen lift up your heads because your redemption is near....

So if we see those main events taken place we (church) knows that the coming of our God is very very near...so is like a sign post telling us that we are near to our destination...

The sign that would alert believers to flee: “When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” (Luke 21:20.) That's what v. 28 is referring to (directed to those living during the time Jesus spoke those words specifically to them).

 

[mkgal1]

Are you saying christian nowadays are not facing oppression, affliction, etc like those in the time Paul wrote his letter?

No, that's not what I'm saying. That letter from Paul was written to a specific group of people - living in 52 AD - and you're removing them from the context.

We, get relief when the Lord is revealed from heaven...again is the second coming

This wasn't written about OUR relief. What about the relief promised to those in Thessalonica in 52 AD? This isn't about a future return. Here - Jesus is revealed IN heaven. He's glorified by the fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[pasifika]

The sign that would alert believers to flee: “When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” (Luke 21:20.) That's what v. 28 is referring to (directed to those living during the time Jesus spoke those words specifically to them).

Correct..so is Jesus only come to them in Jerusalem? Is salvation on for the Jews or those in Jerusalem?

 

[mkgal1]

So if you think that Paul's letter or any of the NT or even the whole bible is only for the people in their time than why are we talking about Jesus or His teaching and salvation etc no point

I never implied that these words is only "for" those in the past - just that they were written "TO" them.

 

[mkgal1]

Correct..so is Jesus only come to them in Jerusalem? Is salvation on for the Jews or those in Jerusalem?

What do you do with those verses?

I believe - and history affirms - that He came in judgement against the "rulers of the age" (first century Jerusalem) and took the kingdom from them and now sits on the throne forever.

 

[pasifika]

No, that's not what I'm saying. That letter from Paul was written to a specific group of people - living in 52 AD - and you're removing them from the context.


This wasn't written about OUR relief. What about the relief promised to those in Thessalonica in 52 AD? This isn't about a future return. Here - Jesus is revealed IN heaven. He's glorified by the fulfillment of prophecy.

So, did they received their relief as promised? Did the Lord appeared in heaven with blazing fire to give them relief?

 

[mkgal1]

So, did they received their relief as promised? Did the Lord appeared in heaven with blazing fire to give them relief?

Not by your belief framework, but in mine (and according to history) yes....they did. Those that were oppressing them were killed in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and their oppressive power was stripped away as the entire religious system was destroyed with the Temple. The early church was free and saved by fleeing to the hills as instructed.

 

[mkgal1]

the Lord appeared in heaven with blazing fire to give them relief?

This language is an ancient Hebrew literary device that isn't literal - but represents God's judgement on nation's.

 

[pasifika]

What do you do with those verses?

I believe - and history affirms - that He came in judgement against the "rulers of the age" (first century Jerusalem) and took the kingdom from them and now sits on the throne forever.

Sorry which verse are you referring to?

 

[mkgal1]

The sign that would alert believers to flee: “When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” (Luke 21:20.) That's what v. 28 is referring to (directed to those living during the time Jesus spoke those words specifically to them).

Sorry which verse are you referring to?

The verses above that bring more context to Luke 21:28.