Daniel's 70th week

mkgal1 said:

Correct - and this man was someone that Paul (and his followers) knew of.....in THEIR time. Paul had even promised his followers that they would receive relief from their persecution in the tribulation to those that troubled THEM (this isn't written to US):

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 ~ And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.​

....and that THEY would receive rest “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God” . ~ II Thessalonians 2 and the Man of Lawlessness

2 Thessalonians 1:7 ~ And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us [Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy] when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels​

Matthew 24:15-16 ~ “The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place.” (Reader, pay attention) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

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pasifika said:

Hello, so do you have any records of such event taken place where the man of sin sitting in the temple proclaiming Himself to be God as in 2Thessalonians 2:4 anytime after Paul wrote that letter?

All writings in NT is written to the church..and the church is made up of Israel and gentiles Ephesians 2:14-16...
The event in Matthew 24:15-16, 2Thessalonians 2:4 spoken by Jesus and Paul are for the church but specifically to our brothers and sisters in Jerusalem...this is future

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claninja said:

So you don't believe Christ has yet redeemed His people from the sins committed under the old covenant? Scripture disagrees with you then. Christ did redeem his people

Hebrews 9:15 now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

You don't believe Christ has yet put away sin for His people? Scripture disagrees with you then. Christ did put away sin through his sacrifice.

Hebrews 9:26 . But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

You don't believe Christ atoned for the sins of his people yet? Scripture disagree with you then. Christ did atone for the sins of his people

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people.

You don't believe Christ has brought in everlasting righteousness for his people? Scripture disagrees with you then. All the righteous requirements of God are now fulfilled in His people through Christ.

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

You don't believe Christ sealed up vision and prophecy? Scripture disagrees with you then. Christ fulfilled everything about him in the law, prophets, and psalms

Luke 24:44 Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms

You don't believe Christ is the most Holy that was annointed? Scripture disagree with you. Christ is the most Holy that was anointed.

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power

Each of 6 points is fulfilled in His people, because of His awesome works. That is the gospel. That is good news. What good news are you preaching if these have not yet been fulfilled in those who are in Christ?

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mkgal1 said:

These words were written by Paul to the church at Thessalonica (not Jerusalem) in 52 AD 2 Thessalonians Bible Timeline - so why are you placing these events in the future......to a completely different audience.....thousands of years later?

If this was not fulfilled, then those that Paul had written to never received the "relief" Paul had promised them. Also....those that Paul mentioned that were going to be repaid for their tribulation they'd caused the early church never were (IF this were future and left unfulfilled). So....what do you make of that? Was Paul mistaken in making these predictive promises? Was he offering false hope - just to calm the church at Thessalonica down?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

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pasifika said:

I said the event in 2Thessalonians 2:2-4, Matthew 24:15...is future and in Jerusalem (Israel )..

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mkgal1 said:

So why would Paul write to a group of people in Greece (Thessalonia) thousands of years ago if this had nothing to do with them? You seem to be missing what Paul said about their (the people he was writing to - in 52 AD) relief that he was promising they'd experience. Can we address that?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

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pasifika said:

The same thing as Jesus said in Luke 21:28...as you see those things happen lift up your heads because your redemption is near....

So if we see those main events taken place we (church) knows that the coming of our God is very very near...so is like a sign post telling us that we are near to our destination...

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mkgal1 said:

So why would Paul write to a group of people in Greece (Thessalonia) thousands of years ago if this had nothing to do with them? You seem to be missing what Paul said about their (the people he was writing to - in 52 AD) relief that he was promising they'd experience. Can we address that?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

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mkgal1 said:

It seems like you're suggesting that those specific people that Paul wrote to - in your belief of this remaining in the future - never experienced the rest from oppression Paul promised.

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pasifika said:

The same thing as Jesus said in Luke 21:28...as you see those things happen lift up your heads because your redemption is near....

So if we see those main events taken place we (church) knows that the coming of our God is very very near...so is like a sign post telling us that we are near to our destination...

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pasifika said:

Are you saying christian nowadays are not facing oppression, affliction, etc like those in the time Paul wrote his letter?

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We, get relief when the Lord is revealed from heaven...again is the second coming

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mkgal1 said:

The sign that would alert believers to flee: “When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” (Luke 21:20.) That's what v. 28 is referring to (directed to those living during the time Jesus spoke those words specifically to them).

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pasifika said:

So if you think that Paul's letter or any of the NT or even the whole bible is only for the people in their time than why are we talking about Jesus or His teaching and salvation etc no point

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pasifika said:

Correct..so is Jesus only come to them in Jerusalem? Is salvation on for the Jews or those in Jerusalem?

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mkgal1 said:

No, that's not what I'm saying. That letter from Paul was written to a specific group of people - living in 52 AD - and you're removing them from the context.


This wasn't written about OUR relief. What about the relief promised to those in Thessalonica in 52 AD? This isn't about a future return. Here - Jesus is revealed IN heaven. He's glorified by the fulfillment of prophecy.

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pasifika said:

So, did they received their relief as promised? Did the Lord appeared in heaven with blazing fire to give them relief?

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pasifika said:

the Lord appeared in heaven with blazing fire to give them relief?

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mkgal1 said:

What do you do with those verses?

I believe - and history affirms - that He came in judgement against the "rulers of the age" (first century Jerusalem) and took the kingdom from them and now sits on the throne forever.

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mkgal1 said:

The sign that would alert believers to flee: “When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” (Luke 21:20.) That's what v. 28 is referring to (directed to those living during the time Jesus spoke those words specifically to them).

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pasifika said:

Sorry which verse are you referring to?

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