Daniel 12 and Olivet Discourse same event?

[LittleLambofJesus]

I didn't get much response on this thread:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7276015
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?

So I thought I would start a thread to find out if there are those who view Daniel 12 and the Olivet Discourse as the same event as I view them and Revelation as one and the same event. All views are welcome and if you respond, please VOTE FIRST. Thanks.

Daniel 12:1
And in time, that , Miyka'el shall standup, the Chief, the Great, the one standing over sons of people of thee.
And a Time/06256 `eth of distress/06869 tsarah becomes, which not occurred from to become of a Nation, until the time/06256 `eth, that.

Luke 21:23
"Woe yet to the-ones in belly having, and to those giving suck in those, the Days. For shall be great distress upon the Land, and wrath upon the People, this; [Matt 24:19, Mark 13:17]

 

[Nilloc]

Daniel 12 and Olivet Discourse same event?

Maybe . . .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Maybe . . .

Greetings NIL and hope you are well.
Michael is only mentioned in Jude and Revelation and as you know, I am currently translating every verse of Revelation from the greek and putting it up on the Christian Scriptures board.

What I also do is use an interlinear to find where exact forms of both greek/hebrew words are used and thus have a consistant translation of verses.

The stoning of Stephen in Acts [as is the whole event of him in it] and one word stood out when I translated some passages from it.
That greek word used for "strong" in Reve:12 is also used in Acts 6:10 and remember when he looked up to heaven and saw the "son of the Man at the rights of God"?

Acts 6:10
And not they were strong/iscuon <2480> (5707) to withstand to the Wisdom and to the Spirit to which he talked.
Acts 7:1
And the High-priest said, "are these things so?"

Revelation 12:7
And became battle in the heaven the Michael and the messengers of him do battle with the dragon, and the dragon battles and the messengers of him 8 and not he is strong/iscusan <2480> (5656) neither place was found of them still in the heaven.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6719420&page=2
Stoning of Stephen against the Law

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ok, let me ask this. What Nation is being symbolized in Daniel 12?

Daniel 12:1 And in time, that , Miyka'el shall standup, the Chief, the Great, the one standing over sons of people of thee.
And a time/06256 `eth of distress/06869 tsarah becomes, which not occurred from to become of a Nation, until the time/06256 `eth, that.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I am saying to ye, that shall be being taken-away from Ye the Kingdom of the God, and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the fruits of it.

John 11:48 "If-ever we may be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him, and shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking-away of Us and the Place and the Nation."

 

[Bible2]

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #1:

I thought I would start a thread to find out if there
are those who view Daniel 12 and the Olivet Discourse
as the same event as I view them and Revelation as
one and the same event.

The abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11 is
the same as Matthew 24:15, and Daniel 9:27, 11:31,36
(cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), which verses have not been
fulfilled. They will be fulfilled by the Antichrist,
the beast of Revelation 13:4-18, 19:19-20.

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #1:

Daniel 12:1 ...

Luke 21:23 ...

Daniel 12:1 happens after all of the tribulation
events during the career of the Antichrist outlined
in Daniel 11:21-45.

So Daniel 12:1 (like Jeremiah 30:7) refers not to the
entire tribulation, but only to the Antichrist's
final attack on the Jews in Jerusalem right before
Jesus returns to save them (Zechariah 14:2-5,
12:9-14, Romans 11:26-29) and make Jerusalem the
world-capital of his millennial kingdom (Zechariah
14:8-21, Micah 4:1-4).

Luke 21:23-24 refers to a prior attack on Jerusalem
which the Antichrist will perform when he commits
the abomination of desolation (Daniel 11:31,36, cf.
Matthew 24:15), which will begin his 42-month world
reign (Revelation 13:5b), during which 42 months
Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles
(Revelation 11:2b).

The Antichrist's first attack on the Jews in Jerusalem
will be even prior to that, when he first is given
some power (Daniel 11:21), defeats the Jews in
Jerusalem and a false Messiah who will be ruling them
(Daniel 11:22), and then cuts a seven-year treaty
with this false Messiah (Daniel 11:23a, 9:26a, 9:27a)
permitting the Jews to keep a rebuilt temple
(Revelation 11:1) and offer sacrifices before it.
But then only two or three years later the Antichrist
will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the
sacrifices (Daniel 9:27, 11:31), and sit in the
temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4,
Daniel 11:36).

 

[Bible2]

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #4:

What Nation is being symbolized in Daniel 12?

Daniel 12:1 ...

Daniel 12:1 could refer to the nation of Israel,
Daniel's people ("thy people").

But Daniel's people now includes more than just
genetic Jews, for just as the Gentile Ruth could say
to the Jew Naomi "thy people shall be my people, and
thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the church
have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:24, Ephesians
2:12,19, Galatians 3:29). The entire church is Israel
(Revelation 21:9b,12b).

But Israel also includes all those unbelieving elect
genetic Jews who will be saved at the second coming
(Romans 11:26-29, Zechariah 12:10-14), and so will
become part of the church at that time, just as saved
Jews have always become part of the church
(1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 11:1), for there can be
no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #4:

Matthew 21:43 ...

Matthew 21:43 is addressing unbelieving non-elect
Jews, whom God doesn't consider to be Israel (Romans
9:6-24) or Jews (Romans 2:28-29, Philippians 3:3), or
the children of Abraham or God, but the children of
Satan (John 8:39-47, Revelation 3:9, 2:9b), just as
all those who will end up being unsaved, no matter
whether they're Jews or Gentiles, are considered by
God to be the children of Satan (Matthew 13:38-42,
cf. 1 John 3:8-10).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Here is some of the greek words from the LXX used in Dan 12 which compares to Matt 24:21.
Do others view Daniel 12, the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the same event? thks.

Daniel 12:1 And in time, that , Miyka'el shall standup, the chief, the great, the one standing over sons of people of thee.
And a time of tribulation/qliyiv/#2347 becomes/gegonen which not occurred from to become/gegenhtai of a Nation until the time that.
And in-time, that, people of thee shall escape/be saved, every of the one being found being Written in Scroll.

This word used for World is used only 3 times in all of Revelation: Reve 11:15, 13:8 and 17:8

Matt 24:21 "For shall be then tribulation/qliyiV <2347>, great, the such as not has become from beginning of World til of the now, neither not no may be becoming/genhtai <1096> (5638). [Mark 13:19]

 

[Bible2]

Daniel 12:1 could occur after all of the tribulation events of Daniel 11:15-45.

Daniel 12:1 could be the very final part of the tribulation, when the surviving
Jews in Jerusalem will be attacked immediately before the second coming of
Jesus Christ (Zechariah 14:2-5).

This final attack could be the time of Jacob's trouble, which the Jews will be
saved from (Jeremiah 30:7), at the second coming (Zechariah 14:5).

---

Matthew 24:21 could refer to that part of the tribulation which will occur
after the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet
(Matthew 24:15), which is Daniel 11:31,36, which has never been fulfilled,
but will be fulfilled by the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

 

[CalmRon]

I'd say most of Daniel was fulfilled accept for the part where the righteous wake up to life everlasting and the wicked to everlasting contempt. the olivet course is a prophecy that deals with both the destruction of jerusalem and the time of the end.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'd say most of Daniel was fulfilled accept for the part where the righteous wake up to life everlasting and the wicked to everlasting contempt. the olivet course is a prophecy that deals with both the destruction of jerusalem and the time of the end.

Can you please vote.....thks

Daniel 12 and Olivet Discourse same event?

 

[SummaScriptura]

I vote no.

The reason the Olivet Discourse cannot be equated with Daniel 12 or any single event is because the Olivet Discourse has multiple future periods in view. The Olivet Discourse came about as an answer to 3 questions the disciples asked, [sup]1[/sup]When will these things be, and [sup]2[/sup]what will be the sign of your coming [sup]3[/sup]and of the close of the age? (Mat 24:3)

When will these things be? Namely, the destruction of the temple.
What will be the sign of your coming? Namely, knowing when Jesus has returned or when he is about to return.
What will be the sign of the close of the age? Namely, knowing how long it will be until the golden age of the Messiah is inaugurated

What the disciples may not have understood at the time, and what the Church only gradually came to realize corporately was the master of the house would delay his coming.

So, many "events" over vast stretches of time are in view in Jesus' answers.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
I vote no.

Thank you for taking the time to both vote and response. Yer in the minority bro ehehe.....God bless

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Need more votes!

 

[kotel]

Daniel’s prophecies concern the “time of the end,” also known as God’s “time of wrath” (8:17, 19; 11:35, 40). The duration God’s wrath will be “a time, times and half a time” or 3.5 years or 1,290 days (12:7, 11). Daniel 12:1 tells us at “that time” there “will be a time distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.” All nations will experience this distress, not just Israel. Daniel’s “time of the end” is the same as the “great tribulation” prophesied in Rev 6-20. What happened to Jerusalem in 70 AD was not prophesied by Daniel; chapter 12 is all about Jacob’s trouble.

The Olivet Discourse concerns his people in Jerusalem and Judah during Rome’s destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the “time of the end” when Jerusalem is destroyed again by the Assyrian Antichrist.

Daniel has a single fulfillment in Rev and Mt 24 has a duel fulfillment in 70 AD and Rev.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Daniel’s prophecies concern the “time of the end,” also known as God’s “time of wrath” (8:17, 19; 11:35, 40). The duration God’s wrath will be “a time, times and half a time” or 3.5 years or 1,290 days (12:7, 11). Daniel 12:1 tells us at “that time” there “will be a time distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.” All nations will experience this distress, not just Israel. Daniel’s “time of the end” is the same as the “great tribulation” prophesied in Rev 6-20. What happened to Jerusalem in 70 AD was not prophesied by Daniel; chapter 12 is all about Jacob’s trouble.

The Olivet Discourse concerns his people in Jerusalem and Judah during Rome’s destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the “time of the end” when Jerusalem is destroyed again by the Assyrian Antichrist.

Daniel has a single fulfillment in Rev and Mt 24 has a duel fulfillment in 70 AD and Rev.

Thanks for responding.
What do you mean by "dual fulfillment"?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923/
How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

 

[kotel]

Thanks for responding.
What do you mean by "dual fulfillment"?

Duality in Bible Prophecy

 

[SummaScriptura]

Duality in Bible Prophecy

I don't believe "duality" is a good hermeneutical rule. The two prophecies the article cites as examples have other explanations. Either a prophecy gets fulfilled or it has not yet been fulfilled. There are not really multiple fulfillments of prophecy.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

destruction of jerusalem the fulfillment of Daniel . sure why not?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think a dual fulfillment is feasible because Daniel and Revelation are two different though similar stories .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think a dual fulfillment is feasible because Daniel and Revelation are two different though similar stories .

Ummm....they are prophecies, not stories

http://www.christianforums.com/t7356783-2/#post51276720
The One Reading.....

Mark 13:14 "Whenever yet ye may be seeing the Abomination/bdelugma <946> of the desolation/erhmwsewV <2050>, the declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood where not it is binding, (the one-reading let him be minding/understanding) then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains"
[Daniel 11:31/Matthew 24:15]

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the prophecy, and keepings in it having been written, for the Time Is-Nigh/egguV <1451>.