Daily Poll, What should the U.S. response be to the beheading of Paul Johnson?

[SuzQ]

People have a big misunderstanding of the people of the Middle East. Everyone just looks at it in black and white. Good vs. evil. I totally agree with what the_cheat was saying in post #53.

It just gives them all the more reason to want to lash out against us if we punish them severely. It is just more ammo for their arsenal. It is a viscious cycle, and both sides think that what they are doing is right. Unless people try and understand the other side, the situation will only get worse. Just tightening the grip, invading more countries, killing more people will only create more tension. Informing yourself and looking for the root of the problem and trying to find an intelligent solution would work, instead of just hot-head revenge.

I 100% agree with Misty on this....if it would only work for terrorist networks, which cannot be contained in one country, unfortunately. Look how far the larger countries of the world have come in working things out - countries that used to despise what the other stood for and waged war on one another - Russia, Japan, Germany, France, Mexico, Ireland, Scotland, Great Britain, the U.S., etc, etc. We now have what's called "summits" where we've been able to work out "world issues" amicably & keep our relations, for the most part. I think we've come along way, in that respect. Misty is totally right that this should be the first course of action, and it usually is.

However, with extreme religious terrorists that aren't willing to bargain or negotiate in reasonable terms, there is no possible "summit". The bottom line is that South Korea wants to help with the efforts of rebuilding Iraq & they will not be scared away. That cannot be blamed on the U.S. These countries do make up their own minds. If they kill their Mr. Kim like our Mr. Johnson, it WILL fuel more hatred, unfortunately, and do nothing to get the world to sympathize with Al Quaeda's efforts. I would like to hope that we can rescue Mr. Kim & the TEN other hostages they have without any innocent bloodshed. I'm hopeful, yet realistic in that the chances are pretty slim.

We've tried to "negotiate" and understand our OWN "religious nuts" - Jim Jones & David Koresh. Then we found out what horrors they were inflicting on the hundreds of trapped people under their control. They were not willing to negotiate the release of anyone, and we had no choice but to use "force". Or, should we have just walked away, minded our own business, and turned our backs on innocent women and children being raped, abused, and some even murdered for trying to escape from these evil men? (it sounds bizarre, but the Jim Jones massacre affected me so bad, that to this day I cannot drink any blue liquids - blue Pepsi, Kool-Aid, Blue Hawaiian, Curacao in tropical drinks, etc. If you know the story, you know why ).

We even once HELPED Saddam Hussein in Iraq, don't you guys remember? How has he repaid us when we not only showed "mercy", but even HELPED Hussein, despite not sharing the same political culture? By planning U.S. attacks?! Putin finally came forward in being honest that Bush was given Russian intelligence that Iraq (NOT Al Quaeda, IRAQ the country, folks) was planning real terrorist attacks, or acts of WAR, against the U.S., and even on our own soil??? Putin of course still opposes the war, (why shouldn't he? Iraq wasn't threatening Russia for pete's sake), but wanted to make it clear the U.S. did have a REAL THREAT of terror. I thank God he did that, even if it was to protect his own interests in Iraq (to the tune of $40 billion inked before the war). It shed more light on Bush's judgement, IMO. He has said this all along & was diplomatic enough to not reveal Russia as one of his sources, despite heavy media critisicm against this war.

If we had stood by & waited for these terrorism plans to quickly come to fruition, and lost even MORE innocent lives than 9/11, then some of you would have had Bush's head for not having done anything about the information he was given??!! It's a double-edge sword.

It's not about "revenge" - it's about saving & protecting the millions today, as well as our children from being slaves to a terrorist regime. My mother and my brother are both military officers & both fought for me. They are also both DEVOUT Christians. I'm not for war, either, BELIEVE me. However, we tried a "wait and see" mentality with Japan's threats once, remember? I've actually been to the Pearl Harbor Memorial - it's a horrible feeling when you're there, knowing all these innocent souls died at that spot below you in the ocean. Our countrywide "revenge" response at Hiroshima was even MORE catastrophic & much, much worse than if we had just acted before the Pearl Harbor massacre even happened.

Think about that applied to Iraq. I can honestly see the same, horrific response happening if the U.S. HAD fallen under attack like that again & it was at the actual hands of Iraqis (not Al Quaeda). The world would be screaming for revenge - & a hatred like no other would emerge demanding that we "vaporize" the area of Iraq.

Isn't "prevention" usually the best medicine in these cases? Gosh, it's not an easy answer, I know.....

 

[burrow_owl]

We even once HELPED Saddam Hussein in Iraq, don't you guys remember? How has he repaid us when we not only showed "mercy", but even HELPED Hussein, despite not sharing the same political culture? By planning U.S. attacks?!

there's pretty good evidence that before his invasion, he tried to vett his plan with the US and got more or less a sly nod from the American ambassador. Then the Gulf War, and our relationship fell apart. So he didn't just get aid before deciding to spite America.

Re: Putin: We really don't have any idea that Putin's claims are accurate. We just don't know.

Isn't "prevention" usually the best medicine in these cases? Gosh, it's not an easy answer, I know.....

Well, for prevention to be rational, it has to be aimed at something for which there's a reasonable chance of happening. I don't walk around in a steel suit in case an asteroid hits me, but the odds of that are long. Prevention is fine, but especially when other innocent people are going to be affected or even killed, we ought to be sure that there's a reasonable chance of the event-to-be-prevented occurring.

And that's what all the squabbling about intelligence has been about.

 

[Desperate4Him]

I'm amazed by some of the lack of sympathy for Kim Sun-il. According to his family, Kim Sun-il's dream was to become a missionary to the Arab peoples. This man had a desire to serve his God, and a desire to reach out to a people whose hearts are hardened against the Word of God. My guess is that he went to Iraq to fulfill his dream in the Lord, not to make money at the expense of the Iraqi people. He found an opportunity to go and he went.

It's possible that he was a little to hasty to reach his dream. Perhaps he should have "waited on the Lord". But regardless, it's refreshing to see someone who may have acted to soon rather than the usual Christian who sits at home, closes his eyes and prays for opportunities to serve God while they are screaming at him from all around.

Kim Sun-il's faith and passion are now being tested by fire. I wonder how many of us would stand tall when faced with a beheading??? May God be with him and strengthen him. And may Christians around the world pray for this man and be inspired by this man while we sit in our comfortable homes.

 

[Oblivious]

Except that I sure did see a lot of people cheering when they were watching CNN and the bombs were dropping. And you can't get blood much colder than that of a man in Washington ordering people on the other side of the world to push buttons..

The Americans giving each other 'High Fives' and acting like they had just scored a 'touch down' actually made me physically vomit as I watched them fire missiles into civilian buildings to take out 'terrorists' in Afghanistan... I was actually physically sick :o

If anyone gets off on the killing of innocent people they are wrong. Period.

But, we did not go to war to kill innocent people. Yeah, through history innocent people have died in war and innocent people have died in Iraq, that's a fact. We did not decide one day to just plow airplanes into buildings and kill thousands. That's the difference - The Al-Qaeda does not think like us - not the middle eastern people, not the Islam people, the Al-Qaeda. What a mess this whole war and situation has become.

And the_cheat, I did not mean that you were justifying these people or their actions. I'm sorry if you thought that was my intention. Wrong choice of words on my part.

 

[PatrickM]

It's a straw-man argument to say we're fueling the terrorists' aggression, or we're just adding to their ranks.

What egregious acts were we doing to provoke 9/11 in the first place?

 

[feral]

Bomb it.
Bom it good.

Get'R done.

This has got to be the most idiotic statement I have heard on this forum in quite some time. What a foolish, short-sighted and egotistical thing to say! What right to we have to inflict violence, and how dumb can we be to think continued violence against violence will lead to peace?

My opinion - I agree with chalice_thunder

 

[JPPT1974]

Bomb the whole Al-Queda camps and bomb all of the countries they are in and then bring Hannibal Lecter and cannabolize them all with bbq sauce.

 

[SuzQ]

I just heard about Kim Sun-il. My hearts and prayers go out to his loved ones. My comfort came today was when I remembered that he was a devout Christian. I pictured Christ taking his hand and smiling at him as he left this world and crossed into the Kingdom.

Again, South Korea's response should be exactly what they're doing - move forward with the 3,000 troops to fight the sympathizers of Al Quaeda, period. We cannot let innocents continue to die for no reason.

 

[SuzQ]

most of these countries have 'contributions' in the two or three digits. I'd actually be ashamed to point to these figures as 'proof' of multi-national support.

fact is many of these countries' contributions are probably more trouble than they are worth, given the need for logistics support and reinforcements, command and control etc. eg. the US military has to worry about how to back these countries up if any of their forces run into trouble. What about communications (signal sets), language issues?

the fact is many of these contributions are merely token contributions and more political than military. I'd say to be a real help you really need at least 1000 troops to contribute.

Wow, I have a hard time understanding this train of thought? We're all working TOGETHER in Iraq, are we not? If a smaller country like Albania only can spare 70 soldiers, or the Czech Republic sends 92 soldiers to help other countries in a larger cause, what difference does it make that Italy sent 3000, or Japan sent 1000 in comparison? Only the "big boys" can come out and play??? Uh, I guess I don't get it....

Whether you're against the war or not, it should not matter in admiring someone trying to help in any way they are able. ANY country's contribution, big or small, to a cause should be just as admirable as their larger counter-parts. Am I crazy on this?

P.S. I doubt there's a language barrier with soldiers from New Zealand or Australia. LOL. I work in the Hospitality business with many International associates, and I've also been to Europe twice - most of the Western or Eastern European entities listed know enough English to get by. I think you're underestimating them because we silly Americans only know 1 language for the most part. Scandinavians begin learning English when they're 6 years old. I would also imagine Latin American or Asian American countries would have someone in charge of their troops who is able to communicate as well. Are you suggesting they're not intelligent enough to be prepared like that?

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I speak Latin and was taught English as well.

 

[mindfull]

Nuke London.

---mindfull

 

[TheTempleTeam]

Nuke London.

---mindfull

Agreed.

 

[2001MustangGT]

It's a straw-man argument to say we're fueling the terrorists' aggression, or we're just adding to their ranks.

Not acording to the International Institute of Strategic Studies:
http://www.iiss.org/ (i highly suggest you spend a few honest hours looking deep into this site).

According to their respected, well researched findings, America is DIRECTLY responsible for an increase in terrorism and hatred of the US. Specifically, the actions taken by the Bush administration after 9/11 have made things much worse according to them.

What egregious acts were we doing to provoke 9/11 in the first place?

We violated Saudi Arabia's sacred holy land with our infidel presence. Its a religious war. Do you know the definition of the word "Jihad"?
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/990
http://www.jihadunspun.net/home.php
http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad.html

And you should definitely check out these above three links for more info on what Jihad is and why they declared it on America.

Happy surfing!

 

[SuzQ]

Not acording to the International Institute of Strategic Studies:
http://www.iiss.org/ (i highly suggest you spend a few honest hours looking deep into this site).

According to their respected, well researched findings, America is DIRECTLY responsible for an increase in terrorism and hatred of the US. Specifically, the actions taken by the Bush administration after 9/11 have made things much worse according to them.

We violated Saudi Arabia's sacred holy land with our infidel presence. Its a religious war. Do you know the definition of the word "Jihad"?
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/990
http://www.jihadunspun.net/home.php
http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad.html

And you should definitely check out these above three links for more info on what Jihad is and why they declared it on America.

Happy surfing!

Well, well, well, Mustang. You FINALLY came up with some research & links to websites to back up all of your "yes, we're evil America" posts. LOL! Just kidding! Seriously, I say BRAVO to you, my brotha!

However, as interesting as I found it to be, I don't take credence into your official-sounding "iiss.org" because it can also be a VERY biased study indeed, despite their "respected" data. In your opinion, this supposedly proves that the actions of the Bush administration, post 9/11, is responsible for the "most" terrorism activity in the last 20 years? The most activity, or the most 'VOCAL' activity? It makes one wonder....

I guess I'm confused on what difference it makes if they hate Bush? Please explain to us why it is that 9/11 even happened in the first place then???? Or how about the Trade Center bombing on Clinton's watch by the terrorists? Or Reagan and the hostage crisis? The kidnapped & murdered Olympic athletes? TWA flight#800? The Achilles Lauro (sp?) cruise ship tragedy? I could go on & on & on.....Gore could be President right now & there would still be the "equal amount" of hatred towards the U.S. & just as much "terrorist" interest out there as any. Do you honestly think John Kerry becoming President will appease these zealots??? Nope. It's pathetic and sad that they hate us no matter what we try to do, or don't do.....

Your second set of links even proves that with WHY "America", is so "evil" to them & completely negates your first offer of data against Bush! What to you propose we do? Completely pull out of Saudi Arabia then and not do business with them? Well, not a bad idea if it wouldn't hurt our own economy at all? Not sure if it would or not. Let's see, what else? Turn our back on Israel because they are Jews and allow Muslims to kill them off? Well, God may have a teeny problem with that. Oh! I got it! Convert the entire United States & only observe and worship as a nation of Islam???? Yipes!

Unfortunately, that's what it's going to take, my friend. It sucks to be hated simply for your nationality, doesn't it? Being hated for such stupid reasons? When you are innocent & would do nothing to harm anyone? When I told that to one of my African-American friends (my old roomate), she replied to me with, "Yup, now you know how I feel when I walk into a gas station & the Middle Eastern owner asked me to leave my purse at the register". (True story that happened when we shared an apartment several years ago in Atlanta - it was ridiculous!).

I'm so exhausted over this subject of terrorists and evil in the world - I need to go pray and meditate awhile, followed by a bike ride with my son. I really need to see and feel some beauty in the world right now.....

to ya!

 

[renegade pariah]

......If America was not so greedy for oil, there would be no need to be in Saudi Arabia.

 

[2001MustangGT]

Well, well, well, Mustang. You FINALLY came up with some research & links to websites to back up all of your "yes, we're evil America" posts. LOL! Just kidding! Seriously, I say BRAVO to you, my brotha!

Thanx SuzQ!

However, as interesting as I found it to be, I don't take credence into your official-sounding "iiss.org" because it can also be a VERY biased study indeed, despite their "respected" data. In your opinion, this supposedly proves that the actions of the Bush administration, post 9/11, is responsible for the "most" terrorism activity in the last 20 years? The most activity, or the most 'VOCAL' activity? It makes one wonder....

I will confirm that the general opinion is that IISS.ORG is definitely biased. But you see, the difference here is that it is biased in FAVOR of Bush. It is not a liberal or left leaning institute by any sense of the word. This institute has been regarded by many to be a conservative leaning and Republican supporting place. I believe that the Bush administration has used its findings and opinions often enough in the past.

I guess I'm confused on what difference it makes if they hate Bush? Please explain to us why it is that 9/11 even happened in the first place then???? Or how about the Trade Center bombing on Clinton's watch by the terrorists? Or Reagan and the hostage crisis? The kidnapped & murdered Olympic athletes? TWA flight#800? The Achilles Lauro (sp?) cruise ship tragedy? I could go on & on & on.....Gore could be President right now & there would still be the "equal amount" of hatred towards the U.S. & just as much "terrorist" interest out there as any.

Yes you are correct. There will always be many people that hate the USA and changing the president wont stop all that.

Do you honestly think John Kerry becoming President will appease these zealots??? Nope. It's pathetic and sad that they hate us no matter what we try to do, or don't do.....

I also agree with you here (we are agreeing too much LOL! ). Kerry will not appease the zealots.

But what I believe, is that Kerry will appease the moderate, sensible, respectable majority of this planet. Bush only infuriates them.

Your second set of links even proves that with WHY "America", is so "evil" to them & completely negates your first offer of data against Bush!

Yes I know. I was trying to answer the earlier question about why Jihad was declared against America in the first place (this happened way before Bush got in office).

What to you propose we do?

Regime change in America would be a nice start

Completely pull out of Saudi Arabia then and not do business with them? Well, not a bad idea if it wouldn't hurt our own economy at all? Not sure if it would or not.

We are already pulling out to a degree... I encourage this. After all, American troops on Muslim holy land is a big part of the Jihad. But stop doing business with them? No way! Saudi Arabia is an ally, believe it or not, with America. There just happens to be alot of people there that are mad at us. But at the same time, they drive Cadillacs, eat McDonalds, and listen to American pop...so its not like we cant make better friends in the long run.

Let's see, what else? Turn our back on Israel because they are Jews and allow Muslims to kill them off? Well, God may have a teeny problem with that. Oh! I got it! Convert the entire United States & only observe and worship as a nation of Islam???? Yipes!

We should pay attention to world opinion, and stop doing things that make us appear so one-sided with the Israel issue. The whole world doesnt want Israel to dissapear, they just want to see us stop selling them Apaches and stop endorsing land grabs etc... (Of course the issue is much more complicated than that, but appearance of intention by way of action is important in this global age. We must work closer with the rest of the world if we are to make more use of global institutions like the UN and the WTO)

The part about religious conversion and abandonment of Israel is obviously just meant to exaggerate your point.

Unfortunately, that's what it's going to take, my friend.

No it wont. See above.

It sucks to be hated simply for your nationality, doesn't it? Being hated for such stupid reasons? When you are innocent & would do nothing to harm anyone?

To the rest of the world, it looks like we are finally getting a taste of our own medicine. I dont necessarily agree or understand when they hate us but you gotta that groups like Al Qaeda dont go through the trouble of 9/11 style attacks without some degree of provocation. Religious hatred doesnt account by itself for that scale and effort in todays world
.
To a large part of the world, America is the bully that persecutes. To the Muslim world, we appear to have declared holy war

When I told that to one of my African-American friends (my old roomate), she replied to me with, "Yup, now you know how I feel when I walk into a gas station & the Middle Eastern owner asked me to leave my purse at the register". (True story that happened when we shared an apartment several years ago in Atlanta - it was ridiculous!).

Interesting. Thats funny cause my current roommate is also black. His sister is a converted Muslim. She lives in DC and was a block from the Pentagon on 9/11. Of course, she was quite badly shaken up after that. I have also heard stories of persecution and discrimination from them. I have also heard alot about Islam and Allah, etc...

But remember (if I may borrow from your story for a second), to the rest of the world... America is the Gas Station owner.

I'm so exhausted over this subject of terrorists and evil in the world - I need to go pray and meditate awhile, followed by a bike ride with my son. I really need to see and feel some beauty in the world right now.....

Thats a bummer. Yea talking about terrorism can make anybody feel depressed. Well maybe it will help a bit to remember that we agreed on a whole bunch of things for once

 

[renegade pariah]

.....behead Bush and we'll call it even.

 

[Canadian-eh]

If our old man is still in control the "natural" response is to retaliate..The new man has to get on his knees, and pray for the perpetrators of this horrible crime. Is this really a Christian forum????????

 

[devoted daughter]

Hi hon! My figures came off of the MSNBC internet article on Kim Sun-il, ironically! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5256382
There's a small box in the article when you scroll down that says "By the numbers - Troops in Iraq". Hope that helps!

I'm still with you on your prayer vigil for Kim Sun-il. Hopefully it's not too late yet??

Suz!!!
Thanks for the reference, and a great source! Going now!

Such bad news about Kim's execution!
There's a prayer request started for him, and his family, if you care to go....

http://www.christianforums.com/t710302

Did you know that he was a devout Christian? His faith is only of note as many westerners leap to conclusions about people of other cultures, with bias and judgment, and many don't care unless someone share our beliefs, which shouldn't matter, but sadly, it does to many!


Kim Sun-il

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Is this really a Christian forum????????

It is debatable for sure sometimes