Daily Poll, What should the U.S. response be to the beheading of Paul Johnson?

[Oblivious]

In all humility - perhaps it's not only THEM that needs to "get it."

Could you elaborate

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

*Queue Yelling*

What?

 

[rahma]

I agree with you. Those people just don't think like us. I don't know - perhaps an eye for eye is the only way for them to get it.

Except that there is nothing in Islam that prevents a person who's body is not properly buried from attaining paradise. Only their person deeds will be judged.

 

[Oblivious]

Except that there is nothing in Islam that prevents a person who's body is not properly buried from attaining paradise. Only their person deeds will be judged.

Well, isn't Islam the "The Religion of Peace" I wonder how the "deed" of beheading will go on judgement day...

 

[rahma]

Well, isn't Islam the "The Religion of Peace" I wonder how the "deed" of beheading will go on judgement day...

Islam literally means submission. It is from the same rootword as peace, slm

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, urged Muslims to show good treatment to war captives; he said to his Companions: “Treat the prisoners of war kindly.” Relating how the Companions complied strictly with this order given by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, one of the prisoners of Badr, Huzayr ibn Humayr, states: “I was with one of Ansari families, after being taken as captive.

Whenever they had lunch or dinner, they used to give me preference by providing me with bread while they’d eat only dates, in showing compliance with the Prophet’s order of treating prisoners well.

Another, Thumama ibn-Athal, was taken prisoner and brought to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, who said: “Be good to him in his captivity.” When the Prophet went home he instructed to collect whatever food there, and ordered it sent to the prisoner.

There is nothing in the sunnah (example) of the Prophet that would allow a man to be taken hostage and killed if demands are not met. The Prophet (saws) never allowed anything like that to happen.

 

[devoted daughter]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Revenge is not the answer.

Simple, and SO true

As ugly and heinous, inhumane and horrific as the beheading was - I cannot think that bombing a whole region will do anything but create greater anger….
Jesus said that we were to love our enemies. Loving our friends is the easy part. Part of loving those who hate us is so much more difficult, because it implies that we need to put ourselves in their shoes, at least for a time, in order to know what they are feeling….
My opinion is that, until we are willing to listen to the other side, and seriously examine what kinds of things we have done in the Middle East, we are going to hurtle ourselves into the brink of an ever-deepening conflagration.

I agree. When will we stop fighting, and start listening? As a foreign culture we are too quick to make these extremist fundamentalistic terrorists the example of how EVERYONE is in their society, which is judgmental and ethnocentric. It’s also ethnocentric to “police” other countries in efforts to implement our style of democracy just because WE think it’s right, which isn’t a very good example of a democratic ideology.

I just made a post concerning Kim Sun-il.
“How is it that we couldn't find Paul Johnson, but within an hour of his death photo's being published, and the Saudi embassy press conference, we SUDDENLY find his killer? The embassy rep says, “... no one with decency or humanity can support murder,” just one hour before murdering Paul’s “killer”...no judge , no jury, no trial? It seems SO convenient! How do we know that was REALLY the guy, and why was he killed when 12 of his associates were taken prisoner?
For me, this raises MANY questions, and doubts.
"Something is ROTTEN in Denmark.’"

.....8000 children die each day from AIDs, but some people would have us believe that terrorism is the most pressing problem. Each and every day people are murdered for no good reason all over the world, and it is accepted as normal, but some people wish to believe that terrorism is a crisis.

30,000 a day from malnutriton related illness, I'm pretty sure those billions could help those people too.

Both great points.

And what about Kim Sun-il ? Do we care MORE if a westerner is threatened?

I wish there could be an easy answer.

DD

Kim Sun-il

 

[Kelly]

Didn't Muhammed have 800 jews beheaded in a single day?

 

[burrow_owl]

What should we do? There's really not much we can do. It sounds horrible, but I s'pose we just have to accept the occasional killing as a cost of doing business. In the meantime, we just keep doing what we've been doing (pressuring Sauds to bulk up security, policing, etc.).

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Pressuring other nations is exactly what has gotten the US into the guerilla attacks on New York.

 

[chalice_thunder]

Could you elaborate

Happy to elaborate.

You said: "I agree with you. Those people just don't think like us. I don't know - perhaps an eye for eye is the only way for them to get it."

You are implying that the way we think is the only right way. Now, I am not for one moment excusing ANY acts of terror - like I said originally - these acts are heinous and inhuman.

But for us to go into their society with our ideas, and start doing the "eye for an eye" routine WITHOUT examining WHY they might have felt led to acts of terror. (AGAIN - please do not read that I am in any way excusing acts of terror) Jesus taught us a way of peace. He also taught us to take the plank out of our own eye before examining the speck in the eye of our neighbor. AND, he taught us that we should love our enemy - a most difficult command to live up to.

So there's my elaboration - peace to you.

 

[SuzQ]

Our verbal response should be outrage. Our actions should be nothing more than what our 130,000 brave soldiers are doing now, as well as several other countries's troops fighting for peace in Iraq for its future generations. The several other countries besides Britain (and their 12,000 troops) being:

Albania 70
Australia 1,000
Azerbaijan 150
Bulgaria 470
Czech Rep. 92
Denmark 496
Dominican Rep. 300
El Salvador 360
Estonia 55
Georgia 70
Hungary 300
Italy 3,000
Japan 1,000
Kazakhstan 25
Latvia 120
Lithuania 105
Macedonia 28
Moldova 25
Mongolia 180
Netherlands 1,100
New Zealand 60
Nicaragua 230
Norway 150
Philippines 95 (175 on the way)
Poland 2,400
Portugal 130
Romania 400
Singapore 200
Slovakia 69 (120 on the way)
South Korea 675 (3,000 on the way)
Thailand 443 (30 on the way)
Ukraine 2,000

Some of you don't get it, with trying to soley blame the U.S. for not "turning the other cheek" throughout history??? We've been a best friend at one point to just about every nation on this planet. I completely agree with Jesus' instruction, don't get me wrong. However, to say God Himself does NOT call these brave people to stand up and fight Satan's "troops of evil" is suggesting you know EVERYTHING about God, right? If we never, ever fought for "good" in history, the Jews would have been completely killed off the planet, some of you would be speaking French or even Japanese, we may not even have the right to converse this way on the internet, Bosnians & Shiite Muslims would be still dying by the thousands each month, etc, etc, etc.

First of all, what has the U.S. EVER done throughout history besides be a friend to Israel to purposely provoke such hatred from these terrorists? Is it also our prosperity? Well, we certainly could do a lot more to help the world with all the money we have. That's true. However, is the answer running up to Shaquille O'Neil's house and blowing myself up because I see how extravagant he lives on "Cribs"??? Of course not! We do not INVITE, nor deserve the type of hatred that has been thrown at this country for the last 50 years.

To suggest there are bigger problems to terrorism in the world is to suggest that all the cold-blooded murders in the name of terrorism's cause have been in vain and not important enough to bother with? If one child molester is in your neighborhood, do you ask the police to ignore him and go after the ten drug dealers on the next block? Of course not!

The point is that there is not one "worldly" issue more important than another when it comes to a human life, period. We must help every fellow man, not just the ones who are hostages, not just the ones starving, not just the ones dying of AIDS - ALL of them, period. For those whose hearts are empty, we can only pray for their redemption before it's too late.

 

[aLx]

The point is that there is not one "worldly" issue more important than another when it comes to a human life, period. We must help every fellow man, not just the ones who are hostages, not just the ones starving, not just the ones dying of AIDS - ALL of them, period.

Amen to that!!
(The problems come when people spend too much to gain for themselves and their interests rather than actually helping the people that need it the most.)

 

[the_cheat]

I agree with you. Those people just don't think like us. I don't know - perhaps an eye for eye is the only way for them to get it.

The problem is, I think, that they think exactly like us.

I'm sure on some muslimforums.com somewhere there are people saying, "the US dropped a bunch of bombs that killed women and children noncombatants yesterday. What's an appropriate response?" And a bunch of people are like, "we should negotiate with them, support peace initiatives," whatever, and then some guys are like, "no, those Americans, they aren't like us, they just won't get it. Maybe an eye for an eye is the only way..."

It's a stupid cycle of violence. We bomb them or they bomb us, so we bomb them so they bomb us so we bomb them so they bomb us ad nauseum ad infiniti. It didn't start with 9-11, it started God only knows how long ago. I don't care who started it. Someone has to call for peace, and really mean it, and really carry it out. Someone has to start the process. And since we're the ones with the nuclear weapons and the hegemony...it should be us. We have more to give up, so our giving up the conflict speaks more loudly. It also immediately deflates the power of the terrorist recruiters and the hatemongers on the other side. If we're not making typical teenagers into angry bloodied orphans, we're not creating this fertile ground in which the terrorists can recruit people with nothing worth living for, nowhere to go and a huge grudge.

"An eye for an eye and the world goes blind" may be a trite saying, but it's a true one.

 

[Oblivious]

The problem is, I think, that they think exactly like us.

I know very few Americans that would celebrate if thousands of people were murdered in cold blood. That's exactly what they did for the victims of 9/11. And yeah, it ****es me off.

I just can't believe that anyone would justify the actions of these people

BTW - I don't agree with eye to eye. As I said, I don't know how you deal with these people...

 

[devoted daughter]

SuzQ
I posted earlier (#46), and would like to respond, soon. Just a quick question...where did you get these stats? We agree on most points, but my figures differ, not that it matters, but I was just curious.

God bless
DD

Praying still for Kim Sun-il The deadline is over, but no news!

 

[the_cheat]

I know very few Americans that would celebrate if thousands of people were murdered in cold blood. That's exactly what they did for the victims of 9/11. And yeah, it ****es me off.

I just can't believe that anyone would justify the actions of these people

BTW - I don't agree with eye to eye. As I said, I don't know how you deal with these people...

Except that I sure did see a lot of people cheering when they were watching CNN and the bombs were dropping. And you can't get blood much colder than that of a man in Washington ordering people on the other side of the world to push buttons.

I'm not justifying the actions of the terrorists, nor the people who support them. In what words of mine, exactly, do you see justification? What they do and did and support is wrong. So is what we did at Abu Ghraib and so is our own killing of civilians. I'm not saying we're to blame for this situation, but I am saying that we ought to at least try to fix it. And here's a crazy fact: killing civilians isn't "fixing the problem." It's making a whole new generation of America-haters. Which was not, I assume, the goal of our military action.

 

[TheTempleTeam]

The Americans giving each other 'High Fives' and acting like they had just scored a 'touch down' actually made me physically vomit as I watched them fire missiles into civilian buildings to take out 'terrorists' in Afghanistan... I was actually physically sick :o

 

[Mistyfogg]

People have a big misunderstanding of the people of the Middle East. Everyone just looks at it in black and white. Good vs. evil. I totally agree with what the_cheat was saying in post #53.

It just gives them all the more reason to want to lash out against us if we punish them severely. It is just more ammo for their arsenal. It is a viscious cycle, and both sides think that what they are doing is right. Unless people try and understand the other side, the situation will only get worse. Just tightening the grip, invading more countries, killing more people will only create more tension. Informing yourself and looking for the root of the problem and trying to find an intelligent solution would work, instead of just hot-head revenge.

 

[SuzQ]

SuzQ
I posted earlier (#46), and would like to respond, soon. Just a quick question...where did you get these stats? We agree on most points, but my figures differ, not that it matters, but I was just curious.

God bless
DD

Praying still for Kim Sun-il The deadline is over, but no news!

Hi hon! My figures came off of the MSNBC internet article on Kim Sun-il, ironically! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5256382
There's a small box in the article when you scroll down that says "By the numbers - Troops in Iraq". Hope that helps!

I'm still with you on your prayer vigil for Kim Sun-il. Hopefully it's not too late yet??

 

[charis]

Albania 70
Australia 1,000
Azerbaijan 150
Bulgaria 470
Czech Rep. 92
Denmark 496
Dominican Rep. 300
El Salvador 360
Estonia 55
Georgia 70
Hungary 300
Italy 3,000
Japan 1,000
Kazakhstan 25
Latvia 120
Lithuania 105
Macedonia 28
Moldova 25
Mongolia 180
Netherlands 1,100
New Zealand 60
Nicaragua 230
Norway 150
Philippines 95 (175 on the way)
Poland 2,400
Portugal 130
Romania 400
Singapore 200
Slovakia 69 (120 on the way)
South Korea 675 (3,000 on the way)
Thailand 443 (30 on the way)
Ukraine 2,000

most of these countries have 'contributions' in the two or three digits. I'd actually be ashamed to point to these figures as 'proof' of multi-national support.

fact is many of these countries' contributions are probably more trouble than they are worth, given the need for logistics support and reinforcements, command and control etc. eg. the US military has to worry about how to back these countries up if any of their forces run into trouble. What about communications (signal sets), language issues?

the fact is many of these contributions are merely token contributions and more political than military. I'd say to be a real help you really need at least 1000 troops to contribute.