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[DogmaHunter]

How can you say what is reality if you were not there to see it?

Eum... I observe reality everyday.

Written history is reality because the people who wrote about the past were there to see it.

That logic forces you to believe in the truth of the quran. Do you really wish to go down that road?

Testimonial stuff is not evidence unless it is corroborated with non-testimonial, independent and contemporary evidence. You know this. You also agree to it, because I guess you don't consider the quran to be trustworthy. However, I can assure you that those who compiled that book were very very very convinced that it is the truth.

An intellectualy honest rationalist will admit that they were not there in the past and all they have is written history to work with.

We were talking about the laws of nature. Those have nothing to do with written history, Sherlock.

Also, again, you AGREE that just because it was written down with whatever conviction, it doesn't mean that it is correct.

You don't buy into the book of the dead, the bagavad Ghita, the quran or any other non-bible religious scripture. Whatever reasons you have to buy into the bible, realise that muslims use the EXACT SAME REASONS to buy into the quran.

For me, my standards are a bit higher. I don't take anyone's word for it - and certainly not if it comes from an ancient book written by goat herders in a time where ignorance and superstition ruled society.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It's important to always capitalize the G in God if you are talking about the Christian God or the true God. All other gods are lowercase.

There is no Christian god, they are all evil.

The Christian god is no more valid to me than any other deity, and god is not a name. I will capitalize Yahweh (YHWH) but not the word god.

 

[dad]

And since we can scientifically prove beyond any shred of doubt that the epic of gilgamesh is nonsense, we can only conclude that plagiarized version thereof in the old testament is even more nonsense.

Your claim that God copied from pagans is laughable.

 

[dad]

How can you not see that you are just inventing stuff just so you can make reality conform to what you have already decided to be true from some book?

The book was not invented by me.

The only reason you propose that the laws of nature have changed is because you need an excuse to continue believing in your religious book.

No. The reason I point out that our laws really are dependent on time and are not known to be eternal, is to strip evos of the excuses they have used to believe in the godless religion they have thought was science!

That's the difference between an intellectually dishonest fundamentalist and an intellectually honest rationalist. We match our beliefs to reality. You match reality to your beliefs.

Reality is bigger than the few inches in front of your nose actually.

Here's a test that will prove that that is exactly the dishonest practice you engage in...

Answer this question:
what kind of evidence would make you even only consider that your bible might be wrong after all?

You could arrest God, and bring Him to earth for a trail, and have Him admit He actually lied. Until then, guess who is True?

 

[dad]

But apparently the way all physics worked changed sometime in Genesis... not seeing how that is consistent.

Most miracles were done after Genesis and in our nature.

 

[dad]

Um, then who wrote Genesis? ..

Someone that the creator of the universe in Person in the flesh said was to be believed, and even chatted with one day in front of witnesses.

 

[Strathos]

Most miracles were done after Genesis and in our nature.

Then why was this change necessary then but not later?

 

[dad]

Then why was this change necessary then but not later?

Well, probably for many reasons. Since one effect was man living some 900 years less than before, I assume that was one reason...limit the ability of wicked men to do too much damage.

 

[Strathos]

Or maybe only certain people who were favored by God lived those extended lifespans and everyone else didn't live that long?

 

[biggles53]

How can you say what is reality if you were not there to see it? Written history is reality because the people who wrote about the past were there to see it.

An intellectualy honest rationalist will admit that they were not there in the past and all they have is written history to work with.

Ummmmm.......you do realise, don't you, that nearly ALL THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE were written by people who were not there to witness what they were writing about...!?

 

[anyathesword]

Um, then who wrote Genesis? Lots of historical documents aren't written by people who experienced the events first hand. And those that are aren't necessarily more reliable because of it.

Probably Moses. Adam, and his sons and grandsons probably inscribed on tablets and orally passed down the story and the account of Creation. Same with Noah and his sons and grandsons. These kind of stories and accounts were carefully recorded and passed down.

 

[anyathesword]

The Christian god is no more valid to me than any other deity, and god is not a name. I will capitalize Yahweh (YHWH) but not the word god.

Unfortunately it's not about you, it's about proper grammar. Is Obama's name capitalized or not?

God with a capital G is a proper name.

 

[anyathesword]

Eum... I observe reality everyday.




That logic forces you to believe in the truth of the quran. Do you really wish to go down that road?

Testimonial stuff is not evidence unless it is corroborated with non-testimonial, independent and contemporary evidence. You know this. You also agree to it, because I guess you don't consider the quran to be trustworthy. However, I can assure you that those who compiled that book were very very very convinced that it is the truth.



We were talking about the laws of nature. Those have nothing to do with written history, Sherlock.

Also, again, you AGREE that just because it was written down with whatever conviction, it doesn't mean that it is correct.

You don't buy into the book of the dead, the bagavad Ghita, the quran or any other non-bible religious scripture. Whatever reasons you have to buy into the bible, realise that muslims use the EXACT SAME REASONS to buy into the quran.

For me, my standards are a bit higher. I don't take anyone's word for it - and certainly not if it comes from an ancient book written by goat herders in a time where ignorance and superstition ruled society.

Unfortunatly the Bible was written by more than just 'goat herders'. You should know that, right?

You were not in the past, the long past. Written history recorded what happened in nature such as the Flood.

Answer me this. How are you sure that the laws of nature were exactly the same as they are now?

 

[anyathesword]

Ummmmm.......you do realise, don't you, that nearly ALL THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE were written by people who were not there to witness what they were writing about...!?

Some yes, not all Mr. Biggles. Many books were written by the men of the book's name and multiple books that are not of their name. For example Solomon wrote Proverbs and Ecclésiastes and Ezra wrote Ezra and Paul wrote several letters in the New Testament.

Such as Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Job, David, Solomon, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter, and John.

So no! They were there to witness it...(not all but most).

 

[lasthero]

Answer me this. How are you sure that the laws of nature were exactly the same as they are now?

How are you sure the laws of nature won't change in the next minute?

How are you sure you're not a brain in a jar?

How are you sure that gravity won't stop working and you'll go floating off into space, soon?

How are you sure a ten-foot tall orge won't pop into existence and came at you with a mace?

How are you sure the world's not really flat?

How are you sure the Sun isn't the center of the universe?

How are you sure that, when you turn on your car, the way gasoline works won't change and make it blow up?

How are you when open a door, you won't open a portal and walk into the vacuum of space?

How are you sure your body isn't inhabited by invisible, undetectable pixies?

Reality does not just change at the drop of a hat, Anya; that's a very banal point you're trying to make. If you want to say that things worked differently in the past, fine - please provide empirical and verifiable evidence, then we'll consider. Until you do, there's no more reason for me to take such a notion any more seriously than I do the idea of a preparing my house for a hobgoblin attack, because, as far as I know, neither are things that happen.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Unfortunately it's not about you, it's about proper grammar. Is Obama's name capitalized or not?

God with a capital G is a proper name.

But the word god isn't a name, just like the word president isn't a name. Yahweh (YHWH) is the closest thing that the Christian god (and the Jewish god, really) has for a name. If you like, I can refer to that deity as Yahweh instead of using god, but since god isn't a name, I will not capitalize it.

 

[dad]

How are you sure the laws of nature won't change in the next minute?

Can science predict the future? God does say this world and heavens will pass away.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Can science predict the future? God does say this world and heavens will pass away.

Science actually agrees with that general statement.

 

[dad]

Or maybe only certain people who were favored by God lived those extended lifespans and everyone else didn't live that long?

He makes the sun to shine on the wicked and the righteous. Even the Sumerians (as wild as their pagan records might be) spoke of very long life spans.

It makes no sense to assume that God sent pixies around to the gardens of the good folks, so that only their trees grew at fast rates, or that half the world lived 1000 years, the rest 70!

 

[dad]

Science actually agrees with that general statement.

Right, but God and the devil are in the details.