Dad on Youtube

[JacksBratt]

Thanks, now I see what you are saying.

The thing is that a very good case could be made for human's intelligence being a difference in degree but not kind as far as intelligence goes. We are smarter and can do more thing with our tool making but we are not the only species that uses tools it is just that no others do it as well as we do.

The uniqueness of humans is always an interesting question but one with some very complex answers.

Dizredux

I agree, we are smarter and make better use of tools. However, look at the advancement of our tools. Also, the animals that use tools are still using the same tools they have always used.

Another hiccup is the patterning that occurs in many species. A monarch butterfly egg laid on a milkweed in mexico will hatch into a cattarpillar, morph to a buttyederfly and then migrate to the exact same field in the north that it's parent was layed, hatched and morphred from.

How?

How does every squirrel know how to build the exact same kind of leaf nest in a tree that can withstand the cold winds of my Canadian winters?

How does every Baltimore Oriel know how to weave those silk purse like nests that are so well hidden until fall? With lesser intelligence than us?

 

[dad]

How exactly is this trait created? What mechanism does it entail?

How is creation created!!?? You kidding? God endowed us with the ability to adapt and evolve. Even in this state, although slow and limited, we see this.

Please don't tell me, a biologist, what is and is not used by scientists doing actual scientific research. I know, you don't. As a "matter of fact."

The created trait of being able to evolve is used, not 'the theory of evolution', which includes common ancestors for man and beast. Not ever..anywhere. As a matter of fact.

No matter what you think you use!!! Please don't tell me that created traits came by evolution.

No, you are the one misrepresenting reality. Scientists try to explain reality. You sell candy-coated fantasies you make up and claim it is "what the bible/God tells us."

No reality without God, sorry. No matter what you may think.

But it is you I am concerned about, dad. Science is evilness and you should protect yourself from it and its evil works (technology). You shouldn't even be using a computer, dad... it is threatening your place in heaven. The cave is much safer for you.

My computer didn't evolve from a puddle...yours? Quit trying to associate yourself with actual knowledge or reality, or inventions!

 

[dad]

Good and bad are irrelavnt in this topic, what matters is what is accurate.

Good and bad are relevant to every topic.

 

[dad]

1. You are in NO position to tell scientists what is "so-called' science and what is "real" science.

Yes, I am.

2. the only one discrediting Jesus here is you, because you make Christianity look foolish.

Did the apostles make Jesus look silly by claiming He created the world? Did Jesus make Himself look silly affirming the prophets and Scripture? You are in no position to cast firebrands.

You're not one of the "good guys," dad. Hmmmm... doesn't Satan claim to be a "good guy?" Do I detect a similarity between you two?

God and His people are the good guys.

What matters to dad and other fundie creationists is what is "right" according to their religious dogma. Whatever is "right" is so, because it is.

If the bible mattered to you as Scripture mattered to Jesus, and His people, you would have some inkling what right was, rather than be blindsided by your evo fables and dogma.

 

[Split Rock]

How is creation created!!?? You kidding? God endowed us with the ability to adapt and evolve. Even in this state, although slow and limited, we see this.

What did God specifically do to "endow us with the ability to adapt and evolve." Do you want me to use smaller sentences for you?

The created trait of being able to evolve is used, not 'the theory of evolution', which includes common ancestors for man and beast. Not ever..anywhere. As a matter of fact.

Scientists use the theory of evolution in their work. They publish on it. Your falsehoods here don't change that.

No matter what you think you use!!! Please don't tell me that created traits came by evolution.

Don't tell me what I use, or what I "think" I use. The theory is used, whether you agree with it or not.

No reality without God, sorry. No matter what you may think.

This isn't about God, its about you. I know you see yourself and God as the same, but you're not.

My computer didn't evolve from a puddle...yours? Quit trying to associate yourself with actual knowledge or reality, or inventions!

Non sequitur. I never claimed computers evolved.

The technology you are using right now is based on science... science you claim is false, evil and Godless. You will be safe in the cave, dad. Your bloated, pride-filled ego might not survive there, but that is to your ultimate benefit, anyway.
Proverbs 11:2: "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with the humble is wisdom."

Proverbs 16:5: "Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished."

 

[Split Rock]

Yes, I am.

No, dad, you are not. You do not do science. You do not understand science.

Did the apostles make Jesus look silly by claiming He created the world? Did Jesus make Himself look silly affirming the prophets and Scripture? You are in no position to cast firebrands.

Your one useful purpose here in this forum is making creationism look foolish. The negative side-effect, unfortunately, is that you are also making Christianity in general look foolish. My point is too show that what you post isn't what God or the bible claim, only what you claim.

God and His people are the good guys.

Spreading falsehoods and candy-wrapped fantasies does not make you one of the "good guys."

If the bible mattered to you as Scripture mattered to Jesus, and His people, you would have some inkling what right was, rather than be blindsided by your evo fables and dogma.

Shiny mirror is shiny.

 

[Dizredux]

I agree, we are smarter and make better use of tools. However, look at the advancement of our tools. Also, the animals that use tools are still using the same tools they have always used.

Yes but again this points continuum of abilities; some with more, some with less but again a matter of degree but not kind.


None of the following is relevant to the discussion.

Another hiccup is the patterning that occurs in many species. A monarch butterfly egg laid on a milkweed in mexico will hatch into a cattarpillar, morph to a buttyederfly and then migrate to the exact same field in the north that it's parent was layed, hatched and morphred from.

How?

How does every squirrel know how to build the exact same kind of leaf nest in a tree that can withstand the cold winds of my Canadian winters?

How does every Baltimore Oriel know how to weave those silk purse like nests that are so well hidden until fall? With lesser intelligence than us?

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes but again this points continuum of abilities; some with more, some with less but again a matter of degree but not kind.

So, man advances in leaps and bounds as far as gaining knowledge, technological advances and the type and use of his tools.

Yet all animals stagnate and make immeasurable progress in the same time frame.

And this points to a continuum of abilities?

 

[Loudmouth]

So, man advances in leaps and bounds as far as gaining knowledge, technological advances and the type and use of his tools.

Yet all animals stagnate and make immeasurable progress in the same time frame.

And this points to a continuum of abilities?

Chimps are smarter than fish which are smarter than sponges. You are unaware of this continuum of intelligence in the animal world?

 

[Dizredux]

Dizredux

Yes but again this points continuum of abilities; some with more, some with less but gain a matter of degree but not kind.

Jack

So, man advances in leaps and bounds as far as gaining knowledge, technological advances and the type and use of his tools.

Yet all animals stagnate and make immeasurable progress in the same time frame.

And this points to a continuum of abilities?

Yes I think so. Typing is painful today (arthritis) so much of what I would like to say will be left off.

One of the real differences between man and the other animals is the ability to work in large groups of non related individuals to accomplish long range goals.

This ability is there on a rudimentary level in several species but is really important to humans. Right now this seems to be a function of development of executive functions which are a part of the development of the brain especially the frontal areas. The gains humanity has made to all appearances is due these abilities at work. In other words, we are a social species in a big way and this is our greatest power as well sometimes our worst enemy. In any case, this is the way God seems to have made us.

We can discuss this later perhaps if you are interested but not today.

Take care,

Dizredux

 

[PsychoSarah]

Good and bad are relevant to every topic.

They really aren't

 

[dad]

They really aren't

Bad call.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Bad call.

In what way? Good and bad are highly subjective concepts, which is partly why it is notably uncommon for people to ever view themselves as bad even when many other people are of that opinion. In regards to science, that sort of unnecessary subjectivity is detrimental in most cases; whether or not you like the implications of a theory should never be relevant in how valid you view said theory.

 

[dad]

In what way? Good and bad are highly subjective concepts,

Not to Jesus. He clued us in. We are not adrift in a sea of confused morals.

which is partly why it is notably uncommon for people to ever view themselves as bad even when many other people are of that opinion.

There is none good, no not one. All are gone astray. But when we accept the sacrifice of the One who IS good, we are in His family, and part of the 'good guys'.

In regards to science, that sort of unnecessary subjectivity is detrimental in most cases; whether or not you like the implications of a theory should never be relevant in how valid you view said theory.

That sort of wonky prioritizing gave us bio weapons, nuclear bombs, pollution, and etc etc etc.


The implications of unrestricted evolution with no God are that men are hopeless animals, and have no design, no plan, no hope, and no purpose.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Not to Jesus. He clued us in. We are not adrift in a sea of confused morals.

There is none good, no not one. All are gone astray. But when we accept the sacrifice of the One who IS good, we are in His family, and part of the 'good guys'.

That sort of wonky prioritizing gave us bio weapons, nuclear bombs, pollution, and etc etc etc.


The implications of unrestricted evolution with no God are that men are hopeless animals, and have no design, no plan, no hope, and no purpose.

Jesus stated what he viewed as good. However, even if you view Jesus as god and the word of god absolute, even within the context of the bible said deity can and does on occasion change their mind on certain issues. As such, the god of the bible itself is not objective in the case of morality, it is just the one who makes the final call on whether or not something is good or bad. Being the "absolute and final" source of morality wouldn't make said deity an objective source of morality.

That is what makes someone good in your subjective opinion. Personally, I view any perspective that would put murderers above just regular people who never do anything exceptionally good or bad on the basis of beliefs alone as unacceptable. By my subjective view of good and evil, a good person goes out of their way to help others without expecting anything in return, a bad person goes out of their way to harm others without any intent for said actions to play out to improve the future, and neutral people as those who generally just keep to themselves. You would obviously disagree with that sentiment, for the fact that as far as I am concerned, I don't typically view beliefs as relevant to whether or not a person is good, bad, or anything inbetween.

Yes, people use knowledge towards less that moral goals, however, this is not a valid reason to encourage people not to seek knowledge. After all, for all the bad things created, there are at a minimum an equal number of good ones. Besides, stopping progress wouldn't stop people from harming each other, it just alters the means by which we do it. The misuse of knowledge is a fault within us, not the knowledge itself.

Sorry you feel that way and feel those are the implications of evolution, but again, even if that was absolutely what evolution being accurate meant, that would not have any bearing on whether or not evolution was in fact accurate. It just means from your perspective, were you to ever accept evolutionary theory as being accurate, you'd be butt hurt about it.

 

[dad]

Jesus stated what he viewed as good. However, even if you view Jesus as god and the word of god absolute, even within the context of the bible said deity can and does on occasion change their mind on certain issues. As such, the god of the bible itself is not objective in the case of morality, it is just the one who makes the final call on whether or not something is good or bad. Being the "absolute and final" source of morality wouldn't make said deity an objective source of morality.

The real issues of morality are the same. To love God with all the heart, and love our neighbor as ourselves.

That is what makes someone good in your subjective opinion.

No. Being saved doesn't make us good. In a sense that I used the word, it does make us one of the 'good' guys. Like there are good and bad angels.

Personally, I view any perspective that would put murderers above just regular people who never do anything exceptionally good or bad on the basis of beliefs alone as unacceptable.

Me too.

By my subjective view of good and evil, a good person goes out of their way to help others without expecting anything in return, a bad person goes out of their way to harm others without any intent for said actions to play out to improve the future, and neutral people as those who generally just keep to themselves.

There are no good and bad people, just people who give in to evil or good to a greater degree.

You would obviously disagree with that sentiment, for the fact that as far as I am concerned, I don't typically view beliefs as relevant to whether or not a person is good, bad, or anything inbetween.

I view the good guys or bad guys as God's sheep, even if yet unsaved...and the devil's people. Like a harvest, God will one day separate the chaff from the wheat. I wouldn't want to be in the gluten free crowd then

Yes, people use knowledge towards less that moral goals, however, this is not a valid reason to encourage people not to seek knowledge.

Knowldege can be from above or below. Simply seeking knowledge without God is a bit like meditating and giving in to any spirit (they know or care not what it is apparently) that happens to be around.

After all, for all the bad things created, there are at a minimum an equal number of good ones.

In most cases the creation itself is not bad, even in the fallen and present state. The bad is in us.

Besides, stopping progress wouldn't stop people from harming each other, it just alters the means by which we do it. The misuse of knowledge is a fault within us, not the knowledge itself.

Both good and evil progress. We should be selective in what we chose to allow to progress especially in our own lives I would suggest.

Sorry you feel that way and feel those are the implications of evolution, but again, even if that was absolutely what evolution being accurate meant, that would not have any bearing on whether or not evolution was in fact accurate. It just means from your perspective, were you to ever accept evolutionary theory as being accurate, you'd be butt hurt about it.

That is a lot of ifs. There are no implications to fairy tales. Relax. All evolution is after the fact of creation, full stop.