Curious Questions about AoG

[spiritfilledjm]

Hello,

Years ago I attended an AoG church that was so on fire for God and everything, the gifts were openly practiced and everything. Long story short, I became a cessationist and eventually left Christianity altogether for a time. I came back to being a continuist and a Christian again and the first churches I visited were AoG. One was an older church where almost everyone there (I was 31 at the time) was old enough to be my grandparent. The gifts were active there but the pastor had some doctrine that I just could not stomach so I left. I went to another church that I found listed as an AoG church. The church states they are AoG...but they prohibit the gifts from being openly practiced and are very much more about having performances with a positive message than allowing the Spirit to flow. Like the Pastor gave a sermon that talked about how much his dad embarrassed him when he was a kid and his dad would preach and get on fire. When I asked a friend of mine about this he said that it is pretty much the norm and that AoG in general seems to have gotten away from the gifts in recent years. Is this true?

 

[quietbloke]

All churches are different in their own ways,but the Holy Spirit makes us one

 

[Andrewn]

I went to another church that I found listed as an AoG church. The church states they are AoG...but they prohibit the gifts from being openly practiced and are very much more about having performances with a positive message than allowing the Spirit to flow. Like the Pastor gave a sermon that talked about how much his dad embarrassed him when he was a kid and his dad would preach and get on fire. When I asked a friend of mine about this he said that it is pretty much the norm and that AoG in general seems to have gotten away from the gifts in recent years. Is this true?

Many years ago, I noticed that "Missionary" churches avoided theological subjects. There is a tendency now in many AoG and other churches to do the same, calling themselves "community" churches. Sometimes, even their websites do not mention their denominational affiliation.

What distinguishes AoG from Missionary and Baptist churches is mainly pre-Tribulation pre-Millennialism, although many people in the latter believe this doctrine.

 

[Sunshinee777]

All churches are different in their own ways,but the Holy Spirit makes us one

Believers are the church.

 

[rocknanchor]

Hello,

Years ago I attended an AoG church that was so on fire for God and everything, the gifts were openly practiced and everything. Long story short, I became a cessationist and eventually left Christianity altogether for a time. I came back to being a continuist and a Christian again and the first churches I visited were AoG. One was an older church where almost everyone there (I was 31 at the time) was old enough to be my grandparent. The gifts were active there but the pastor had some doctrine that I just could not stomach so I left. I went to another church that I found listed as an AoG church. The church states they are AoG...but they prohibit the gifts from being openly practiced and are very much more about having performances with a positive message than allowing the Spirit to flow. Like the Pastor gave a sermon that talked about how much his dad embarrassed him when he was a kid and his dad would preach and get on fire. When I asked a friend of mine about this he said that it is pretty much the norm and that AoG in general seems to have gotten away from the gifts in recent years. Is this true?

Greetings Brother, and Happy New Year!

Really! In some ways, places, I wonder if one pattern is showing a resurgeance of balancing for the unity of the Spirit. But more oft' I'm afraid is the pattern as you have told. Not long ago, a middle-aged AOG brother refused to accept the possibility of the AOG taking it on the nose, spiritually when I brought it up one day on another site. He maintained it just wasn't so. But it is, we hope against such tides, but there comes a point when truth requires attention and this one has been uneccessarily giving our foe hard fought ground for years.

I reminded him what a sister said when she asked Kenneth Hagan Jr why we wern't seeing the signs and wonders that would follow them that believe. He responded something to the effect of 'Because we don't teach the baptism of the Spirit anymore like we should.'

 

[quietbloke]

The God of the Assemblies of God is able to minister to others through us

 

[rocknanchor]

The God of the Assemblies of God is able to minister to others through us

Amen, let us press on.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hello,

Years ago I attended an AoG church that was so on fire for God and everything, the gifts were openly practiced and everything. Long story short, I became a cessationist and eventually left Christianity altogether for a time. I came back to being a continuist and a Christian again and the first churches I visited were AoG. One was an older church where almost everyone there (I was 31 at the time) was old enough to be my grandparent. The gifts were active there but the pastor had some doctrine that I just could not stomach so I left. I went to another church that I found listed as an AoG church. The church states they are AoG...but they prohibit the gifts from being openly practiced and are very much more about having performances with a positive message than allowing the Spirit to flow. Like the Pastor gave a sermon that talked about how much his dad embarrassed him when he was a kid and his dad would preach and get on fire. When I asked a friend of mine about this he said that it is pretty much the norm and that AoG in general seems to have gotten away from the gifts in recent years. Is this true?

I attend an AOG church, and although the gifts are not restricted it is certainly not the focus of the church that I attend. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.

There always needs to be a balance of teaching and the gifts. If it spins either way to the extreme then it is probably not a good thing.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hello,

Years ago I attended an AoG church that was so on fire for God and everything, the gifts were openly practiced and everything. Long story short, I became a cessationist and eventually left Christianity altogether for a time. I came back to being a continuist and a Christian again and the first churches I visited were AoG. One was an older church where almost everyone there (I was 31 at the time) was old enough to be my grandparent. The gifts were active there but the pastor had some doctrine that I just could not stomach so I left. I went to another church that I found listed as an AoG church. The church states they are AoG...but they prohibit the gifts from being openly practiced and are very much more about having performances with a positive message than allowing the Spirit to flow. Like the Pastor gave a sermon that talked about how much his dad embarrassed him when he was a kid and his dad would preach and get on fire. When I asked a friend of mine about this he said that it is pretty much the norm and that AoG in general seems to have gotten away from the gifts in recent years. Is this true?

AoG churches are autonomous in that each church is governed as a separate entity, as long as it conforms to the general AoG articles of faith. While the Methodist church as a general superintendent, the Presbyterian church has a moderator and a Book of Order, and the Anglican church has regional bishops, all who provide oversight to their respective churches, the AoG does not. Therefore each AoG is pretty well a "law to itself" in the way it is governed. This means that there is quite a diversity among churches. I have been to AoG services that are more like Baptist services than Pentecostal ones, and another service that was as spooky as a Kenneth Copeland hallelujah hootenanny. I was converted to Christ in an AoG church in 1966, and was quite different to what they are today.

 

[rocknanchor]

AoG churches are autonomous in that each church is governed as a separate entity, as long as it conforms to the general AoG articles of faith. While the Methodist church as a general superintendent, the Presbyterian church has a moderator and a Book of Order, and the Anglican church has regional bishops, all who provide oversight to their respective churches, the AoG does not. Therefore each AoG is pretty well a "law to itself" in the way it is governed. This means that there is quite a diversity among churches. I have been to AoG services that are more like Baptist services than Pentecostal ones, and another service that was as spooky as a Kenneth Copeland hallelujah hootenanny. I was converted to Christ in an AoG church in 1966, and was quite different to what they are today.

Howdy!

While waiting for SFJim, , Per your AOG assesment, surprising, as things must have surely changed since my days with three separate substantial congregations. One, sadened, as it had to cut ties fully due to financial mismanagaing. Another, answered openly to the periodic visitation of the regional superintendant as in the word of then Pastor Sheaffer, "I too have to submit to those who watch over me." These were the remarks of the eighties and ninties. Pastor Sheaffer died 15 or so years ago, yet some of the original power is still in place.

All that said, I resist naive sentiment. I too saw things cooling off and did take residence elsewhere brother.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Howdy!

While waiting for SFJim, , Per your AOG assesment, surprising, as things must have surely changed since my days with three separate substantial congregations. One, sadened, as it had to cut ties fully due to financial mismanagaing. Another, answered openly to the periodic visitation of the regional superintendant as in the word of then Pastor Sheaffer, "I too have to submit to those who watch over me." These were the remarks of the eighties and ninties. Pastor Sheaffer died 15 or so years ago, yet some of the original power is still in place.

All that said, I resist naive sentiment. I too saw things cooling off and did take residence elsewhere brother.

One valuable lesson I learned was when I left my last Charismatic church in 1979, and fellowshiped for a couple of years in an Anglican church, and then eight years in two Baptist churches (in different cities) and then 23 years as an elder in a suburban Presbyterian church, was that the church was merely a group of people I fellowship with, rather than a religious temple that told me how I must worship and live my life. I also found that leaving the Charismatic movement did not mean leaving my continuist view, and that the indwelling Holy Spirit remained the same no matter what church I decided to fellowship with. None of the churches I fellowshiped with were Charismatic, nor did they practice the gifts of the Spirit, but I found just as much faith, hope and love in the people as those in the Charismatic church I left.

What happened was that my faith and loyalty changed from being in a church to being in Christ, and instead of being on the foundation of a church's doctrine, I founded my faith in God's written Word. Then it didn't matter what "brand" of church I decided to fellowship with, because the nature of each church I fellowshiped with did not affect my faith in Christ or my dependence on the promises in God's Word. And it didn't matter to me what issues there were in these churches. What I asked the Lord for was to be part of the solution in these churches rather than part of the problem. The only reason why I left a church was that I changed cities in my job. If I accepted that I was in a church because the Lord wanted me there, I knew I was to stay there and be committed to it until the Lord told me otherwise. So it didn't matter to me what others do in the church. It is more important that I am led by the Spirit concerning what I do there.

At present, I am fellowshiping in a Union (Methodist/Presbyterian) church that has an average of 15 people attending at a Sunday morning service. The Lord told me to join that church because "they need someone like you there". It doesn't have a minister, but has various visiting preachers, some liberal, and others Christ-centred. I get to take a service once a month, and I share the Gospel so that at least they get a good "dose" of God's Word when I preach to them.

I think there is the sad situation where many people find it more important to them what the church can do for them. If the church doesn't give them what they want, they moan and criticise and leave to find greener pastures elsewhere. It seems the the concept of service to the Lord consisting in what someone can give to the church has become less important. It is the difference between "how can I serve the Lord?" and the selfish, "What do I want to receive from the Lord?"

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I have been to AoG services that are more like Baptist services than Pentecostal ones, and another service that was as spooky as a Kenneth Copeland hallelujah hootenanny.

The next time I am up to teach adult Sunday school, I am planning on a lesson about tongues...I will definitely be using "hallelujah hootenanny" in my lesson.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Greetings Brother, and Happy New Year!

Really! In some ways, places, I wonder if one pattern is showing a resurgeance of balancing for the unity of the Spirit. But more oft' I'm afraid is the pattern as you have told. Not long ago, a middle-aged AOG brother refused to accept the possibility of the AOG taking it on the nose, spiritually when I brought it up one day on another site. He maintained it just wasn't so. But it is, we hope against such tides, but there comes a point when truth requires attention and this one has been uneccessarily giving our foe hard fought ground for years.

I reminded him what a sister said when she asked Kenneth Hagan Jr why we wern't seeing the signs and wonders that would follow them that believe. He responded something to the effect of 'Because we don't teach the baptism of the Spirit anymore like we should.'

Sorry, I didn't realize you were waiting for a response lol. I agree that a balance for unity of the Spirit is needed. I remember about 15 years ago I was a part of a hyper-charismatic ministry where eventually I realized that it had little to do with Jesus but everything to do with getting drunk/high on what they called "the Spirit." I think over the last few decades, since the end of revivals like Brownsville, Toronto, and to a more local extent for me, the Calvary Temple revival in Indianapolis, people looked back on the end of these revivals, how they ended, what was going on towards the end and, especially in the case of Toronto, decided to take a step back and go back to going to Church for Jesus rather than to get that "feeling". It's not a bad thing. The church I attend now is very, very, balanced and has a good emphasis and grasp on discernment. However, my issue a few years ago with the AoG church I mentioned was that they were actively preaching against even practicing the gifts within the church and allowing the Spirit to move as He will. This was just so shocking to me to hear come out of a church that claims to be AoG. I mean, I can understand wanting to have some sort of control, that is needed of course, Paul spoke extensively on that especially to the Corinthians, but to all but forbid it is a different thing entirely. Balance is key.

 

[rocknanchor]

A bit strange, isn't it, how it wouldn't surprise me some of the old AOG guard would bristle at us AOG 'shipwrecks'. But the wolves have moved in to capitalize on tepid vigilance in certain places, which, as Oscarr has brought up the vacancies appearing upon certain former stations of oversight, have likely occurred to span the globe. The old guard had better come to terms with such fellowship, WE know we are true and correct to holding the AOG line well-past the brick and mortar crypts (in some cases). If that blackening becomes apparent, the marquee that bears the assoc-AOG title but displays a similar tone to what Jim testifies, it may well be a symptom of AOG governance that has abandoned what all other forbearing fruit hath wrought. Beware.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

A bit strange, isn't it, how it wouldn't surprise me some of the old AOG guard would bristle at us AOG 'shipwrecks'. But the wolves have moved in to capitalize on tepid vigilance in certain places, which, as Oscarr has brought up the vacancies appearing upon certain former stations of oversight, have likely occurred to span the globe. The old guard had better come to terms with such fellowship, WE know we are true and correct to holding the AOG line well-past the brick and mortar crypts (in some cases). If that blackening becomes apparent, the marquee that bears the assoc-AOG title but displays a similar tone to what Jim testifies, it may well be a symptom of AOG governance that has abandoned what all other forbearing fruit hath wrought. Beware.

It is interesting that it is history repeating itself. The early church started in revival and the widespread manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, but before too long it went into formalism, man's authority, and ceremony just like the AoG churches are going today.

It is also interesting that the Brownsville church, where the revival took place and multitudes came to Christ under the preaching of Stephen Hill, from recent reports is heading towards formalism and ceremony and man designed and programmed services.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

It is interesting that it is history repeating itself. The early church started in revival and the widespread manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, but before too long it went into formalism, man's authority, and ceremony just like the AoG churches are going today.

It is also interesting that the Brownsville church, where the revival took place and multitudes came to Christ under the preaching of Stephen Hill, from recent reports is heading towards formalism and ceremony and man designed and programmed services.

I just wish more churches could find that healthy balance between being active in the gifts, and still keeping the focus on Christ and His teachings.

Interesting thing to note about history and the gifts, last semester I did a paper on the gifts post-revelation, and how they operated in the early church based on early church father's writings. This was from writers like Irenaeus, and many others going to about 400 AD from roughly 100 AD. What is interesting about it is that they all sought after the gifts, various gifts, from healing, to exorcism, to prophecy and the like. I did not find mention of tongues (granted I did not read all of the writings in depth.), which is fine, but still, the fact that they were still seeking after prophecy (being one of the main gifts mentioned throughout the various author's writings) does kinda put a nail into the cessationist doctrine of the gifts stopping with the completion of the book of Revelation and the death of John.