Crusades

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Knights Templar: The Occult

A blogpost which appeals to a book released in 2006 does not constitute a primary source. You're using the example of Templars who were indeed accused of Heresy and secretive acts (which they denied) and were executed by the King of France. I find it hard to justify the charges against the Templars and buy wholly France's narrative concerning their activities. If you can demonstrate the charges against them must be believed, then do so.

Yet that you can only appeal to the Templars as a definitive example from the time, still calls into question your wider contention that the entire crusading Movement was devoted to Baphomet. Are there any documents at the time of the crusades that mention such a God? If there aren't, how do you know they worshipped this figure?

 

[Angel dude]

I am still waiting for your your source. Just mentioning chronicles is not enough. I need your primary source. And just because something was written at that time doesn't make it truth either.

The freemasons and even the church of Satan still lecture in the incidents and admit the truth to their actions. I used to take part in some lectures like that back when I actually was a member of the satanic church before converting to Christianity.

A blogpost which appeals to a book released in 2006 does not constitute a primary source. You're using the example of Templars who were indeed accused of Heresy and secretive acts (which they denied) and were executed by the King of France. I find it hard to justify the charges against the Templars and buy wholly France's narrative concerning their activities. If you can demonstrate the charges against them must be believed, then do so.

Yet that you can only appeal to the Templars as a definitive example from the time, still calls into question your wider contention that the entire crusading Movement was devoted to Baphomet. Are there any documents at the time of the crusades that mention such a God? If there aren't, how do you know they worshipped this figure?

Baphomet, the Goat of Mendes, entered the historical record in 1098 in a letter from Anselm Ribemont, who recalled:

“As the next day dawned, they(the knights) called loudly upon Baphometh; and we prayed silently in our hearts to God, then we attacked and forced all of them outside the city walls.”

Baphomet as a demon proper was first documented in the early 14th century, during the Babylonian Captivity of the Papacy, when members of the Order of the Knights Templar confessed to its worship.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I am still waiting for your your source. Just mentioning chronicles is not enough. I need your primary source. And just because something was written at that time doesn't make it truth either.

It's lazy to make audacious claims regarding the whole crusading movement, not give any sold proof for those claims and then make the person who asked for proof prove you wrong.

Unfortunately I don't have much in the way of access to primary crusader sources, but I'm not making any particular claims for them that go beyond the general consensus of established facts. You are saying the whole movement, instead of being devoted the cause of restoring the holy land to Christendom was secretly a plot by Baphomet worshippers (presumably the Pope was the ring leader) to invade the Middle east and establish ostensibly Christian Kingdoms which did nothing to further the cause of paganism in general...

Conspiracies are fun but they are wholly unreliable narratives. Especially unreliable because there's no good reason to believe in them.

 

[Angel dude]

It's lazy to make audacious claims regarding the whole crusading movement, not give any sold proof for those claims and then make the person who asked for proof prove you wrong.

Unfortunately I don't have much in the way of access to primary crusader sources, but I'm not making any particular claims for them that go beyond the general consensus of established facts. You are saying the whole movement, instead of being devoted the cause of restoring the holy land to Christendom was secretly a plot by Baphomet worshippers (presumably the Pope was the ring leader) to invade the Middle east and establish ostensibly Christian Kingdoms which did nothing to further the cause of paganism in general...

Conspiracies are fun but they are wholly unreliable narratives. Especially unreliable because there's no good reason to believe in them.

It's lazy and hypocritical of you to ask for primary sources regarding every thing else as fantasy when you yourself couldn't give one. At least I have found evidence given by people testimony and word, when you have nothing but orders to prove it. I have put people's actual spoken and or written words into these comments when you put nothing but forceful interrogations to make a proved case. At least I actually found testimonies. No more hypocrisy from you unless you can find the proved case yourself.

 

[Angel dude]

It's lazy and hypocritical of you to ask for primary sources regarding every thing else as fantasy when you yourself couldn't give one. At least I have found evidence given by people testimony and word, when you have nothing but orders to prove it. I have put people's actual spoken and or written words into these comments when you put nothing but forceful interrogations to make a proved case. At least I actually found testimonies. No more hypocrisy from you unless you can find the proved case yourself.

This is also a popular picture depicting one of the templars secret satanic meetings.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The freemasons and even the church of Satan still lecture in the incidents and admit the truth to their actions. I used to take part in some lectures like that back when I actually was a member of the satanic church before converting to Christianity.

Baphomet, the Goat of Mendes, entered the historical record in 1098 in a letter from Anselm Ribemont, who recalled:

“As the next day dawned, they(the knights) called loudly upon Baphometh; and we prayed silently in our hearts to God, then we attacked and forced all of them outside the city walls.”

Baphomet as a demon proper was first documented in the early 14th century, during the Babylonian Captivity of the Papacy, when members of the Order of the Knights Templar confessed to its worship.

How interestingly different your translation is from the wikipedia one.

"As the next day dawned, they called loudly upon Baphometh; and we prayed silently in our hearts to God, then we attacked and forced all of them outside the city walls."

I'm willing to bet the author of the letter is not admitting to Pagan worship but that his enemies (the Muslims) were worshipping Baphomet.

Tell me, what random website did you get your translation from that seems to deliberately distort the actual passage in question?

Please post the whole letter if you have access to it, because unfortunately I do not.

 

[Angel dude]

How interestingly different your translation is from the wikipedia one.

"As the next day dawned, they called loudly upon Baphometh; and we prayed silently in our hearts to God, then we attacked and forced all of them outside the city walls."

I'm willing to bet the author of the letter is not admitting to Pagan worship but that his enemies (the Muslims) were worshipping Baphomet.

Tell me, what random website did you get your translation from that seems to deliberately distort the actual passage in question?

Please post the whole letter if you have access to it, because unfortunately I do not.

I guess my translation is different because it didn't come from the lying braindead people behind Wikipedia. Wikipedia is one of the most unreliable.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It's lazy and hypocritical of you to ask for primary sources regarding every thing else as fantasy when you yourself couldn't give one. At least I have found evidence given by people testimony and word, when you have nothing but orders to prove it. I have put people's actual spoken and or written words into these comments when you put nothing but forceful interrogations to make a proved case. At least I actually found testimonies. No more hypocrisy from you unless you can find the proved case yourself.

You have given one primary source which i have suggest was deliberately altered to make it appear to be something it was not, namely an apparent admission on part of a Crusader to be participating in Baphomet worship. It's just the opposite, they accuse their opponents of that worship.

Your much like those who appeal to the work of Gerald Massey and believe Christianity is a borrowed pagan mystery religion. If someone says it, it must be correct, especially if it involves Catholics, because Catholics are by definition evil.

I guess my translation is different because it didn't come from the lying braindead people behind Wikipedia. Wikipedia is one of the most unreliable.

What is your translation then? Wikipedia's comes from this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Templars-Selected-Sources-Malcolm-Barber/dp/071905110X

Published by Manchester university specifically for the medieval department and translated by two scholars.

If I am wrong and this professional work is wrong, then post the whole letter. I mean it's not like you copy pasted it from the first site you found in a google search for "Templars are pagan" or something.

 

[Angel dude]

You have given one primary source which i have suggest was deliberately altered to make it appear to be something it was not, namely an apparent admission on part of a Crusader to be participating in Baphomet worship. It's just the opposite, they accuse their opponents of that worship.

Your much like those who appeal to the work of Gerald Massey and believe Christianity is a borrowed pagan mystery religion. If someone says it, it must be correct, especially if it involves Catholics, because Catholics are by definition evil.




What is your translation then? Wikipedia's comes from this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Templars-Selected-Sources-Malcolm-Barber/dp/071905110X

Published by Manchester university specifically for the medieval department and translated by two scholars.

If I am wrong and this professional work is wrong, then post the whole ltter. I mean it's not like you copy pasted it from the first sight you found in a google search for "Templars are pagan" or something.

You have given one primary source which i have suggest was deliberately altered to make it appear to be something it was not, namely an apparent admission on part of a Crusader to be participating in Baphomet worship. It's just the opposite, they accuse their opponents of that worship.

Your much like those who appeal to the work of Gerald Massey and believe Christianity is a borrowed pagan mystery religion. If someone says it, it must be correct, especially if it involves Catholics, because Catholics are by definition evil.




What is your translation then? Wikipedia's comes from this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Templars-Selected-Sources-Malcolm-Barber/dp/071905110X

Published by Manchester university specifically for the medieval department and translated by two scholars.

If I am wrong and this professional work is wrong, then post the whole ltter. I mean it's not like you copy pasted it from the first sight you found in a google search for "Templars are pagan" or something.

Most of my comments didn't come from random web pages but testimony and described events from a religious/occult studies book one of my best friends gave me in college. We read it multiple times and lectured on it alot with other friends and members ofo the cult we were in, including some evidence described by the cult leader found in earlier documents. I myself did Bsphomet worship as well before converting to the Catholic church

 

[Angel dude]

Most of my comments didn't come from random web pages but testimony and described events from a religious/occult studies book one of my best friends gave me in college. We read it multiple times and lectured on it alot with other friends and members ofo the cult we were in, including some evidence described by the cult leader found in earlier documents. I myself did Bsphomet worship as well before converting to the Catholic church

Also the Man, Myth, Myticism, and Magic book set does quite alot of lecturing on it as well

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Most of my comments didn't come from random web pages but testimony and described events from a religious/occult studies book one of my best friends gave me in college. We read it multiple times and lectured on it alot with other friends and members ofo the cult we were in, including some evidence described by the cult leader found in earlier documents. I myself did Bsphomet worship as well before converting to the Catholic church

Clearly you copied your quotation from the Crusader from a website of some kind, which is what I asked in the first place.

Your personal testimony regarding what these so called books say are worthless unless you can reiterate what they say and if they say something that needs to be backed up by some form of evidence you should question the veracity of the claims in the books.

 

[Angel dude]

Clearly you copied your quotation from the Crusader from a website of some kind, which is what I asked in the first place.

Your personal testimony regarding what these so called books say are worthless unless you can reiterate what they say and if they say something that needs to be backed up by some form of evidence you should question the veracity of the claims in the books.

I am still waiting for your primary sources as well. All you did was send me to the Amazon order page for some random book written in 2002. I myself have no reason to believe that is substantial evidence either. Still I actually wrote people actual words when you have not written any literal quotations. Give me truthful quotations instead of badgering mine cause I at least gave some

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I am still waiting for your primary sources as well. All you did was send me to the Amazon order page for some random book written in 2002. I myself have no reason to believe that is substantial evidence either. Still I actually wrote people actual words when you have not written any literal quotations. Give me truthful quotations instead of badgering mine cause I at least gave some

If you consider a book published by Manchester university, random, to have no quality control behind it or the scholars involved in it's translation as being unworthy of trust when compared to your source for your translation, I don't know what to tell you. Namely because you haven't provided where you found your quotation from so I can't comment.

I am baffled that you classify a university published translation of an ancient text at the same level of a random book. I suppose I'm biased since I own a lot of books translated by scholars into English by credible universities but for good reason, since they spend a good deal of their lives to the effort.

Provide the website you found your quotation from. I'm willing to let others judge between what source is more valuable, though apparently you have no confidence in your source.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

This is also a popular picture depicting one of the templars secret satanic meetings.

I'm sure the artist was there in person.

 

[Angel dude]

If you consider a book published by Manchester university, random, to have no quality control behind it or the scholars involved in it's translation as being unworthy of trust when compared to your source for your translation, I don't know what to tell you. Namely because you haven't provided where you found your quotation from so I can't comment.

I am baffled that you classify a university published translation of an ancient text at the same level of a random book. I suppose I'm biased since I own a lot of books translated by scholars into English by credible universities but for good reason, since they spend a good deal of their lives to the effort.

Provide the website you found your quotation from. I'm willing to let others judge between what source is more valuable, though apparently you have no confidence in your source.

You still have not given any evidence. No quotations or testimonies from you. And just because a book is written by a university does not mean it is reliable or true.

 

[tz620q]

The Freemasons worship Baphomet as well. I have talked to some at the local Lodge in my town, one who was descended from a crusader knight. He discussed this at length and also he had no respect for Christ or Christianity and most off his fsmily, about 97 percemt according to him were all Satanists or atheist. He showed me some notes that were passed down to him through about 5 generations and they were sickening anti-God bullcrap.

Angel Dude,
You do realize that the link from the Freemasons to the Templars is all made up history to try to give the Freemasons a back story. A few simple Google searches will uncover that fact and the over 300 year gap between the Knights Templar of the Crusades era and the Freemasons.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Find a crusader or a descendent and ask as well. It will be hard to find much though because they were pretty much almost entirely wiped out by the church for their horrific deeds.

It's better to go back in history and look at the body of evidence. The Crusaders were CATHOLIC, not Freemasons (BTW, the two are as compatible as oil and water, though in this day some Catholics are freemasons), the Crusades were preached by popes and their direct reports. There was no freemasonry in it at all, though that doesn't mean that some crusaders could have been masons. But back then, they knew their faith and that the two didn't mix.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Also check out the book that Eliphas Levi wrote in the 1800s on the subject. He also discussed it in length and it is one of the most remembered and substantial books on the history of that time period, most involving the crusades. He was one of the worlds leading authorities on occult studies, and religious mysticism.

A French occultist? No thanks.

 

[Albion]

The freemasons and even the church of Satan still lecture in the incidents and admit the truth to their actions.

I would be very interested to see any evidence of that. Got any--or is the above just a repetition of something that was read somewhere?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Knights Templar: The Occult

Do you know this author, or is he your son? There is nothing that tells us of his expertise. Just because someone was fascinated by something in his childhood doesn't make one an expert. I was fascinated by baseball, but couldn't swing a bat.