CRT and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion

TLK Valentine · Nov 2, 2021

bekkilyn said:
Therefore, I suppose we have no need to know each other now or in the future.

Until we debate something else... not really, I suppose.

coffee4u · Nov 2, 2021

petemart said:
On the surface this is perfectly reasonable and how, in an ideal world, it would be. The thing, though, is that benefits conferred by systemic racism exist for many of us white Americans from actions long after slavery ended and in some ways continue to this day.

Jim Crow followed the end of Slavery and showed that America was NOT going to let up on the people of color, not one whit. The 1960's saw the Civil Rights movement which definitely helped ease some of the horrors, but clearly there's something going on that is systemic and biased against black and hispanic Americans to this day. Ridiculous levels of income inequality, inequality in interactions with the justice system, etc. All of this helps ensure the "generational wealth" of white families vs the average black family.

That's the thing. We want to make TODAY more equitable and just. But we are still far away from where we need to be. Even today.

If- If this is true (I really don't know anything about American laws to comment except what I hear in passing), this is something the government should be addressing not some 'white' person who is just going about their day.
What makes a 'white' person anyway? What if they are mixed? How mixed do you need to be to 'qualify' to not be 'white?'
Should they bring the paper bag test back? Sounds like this CRT nonsense will. Sorry kid your sister passes but you don't.
No matter what injustices are going on or not, it is never right to teach people the idea that they are a victim. There are plenty of studies on victim mentality and how it damages. Martin Luther jr would be rolling in his grave over this.

My answer of course is God.
37Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’
5 words sum up all that need to be taught. ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’
if you love your neighbour you are not committing injustice upon him.

Children should be taught that every human being has worth and to love each other because we were made in the image of God.
1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

RDKirk · Nov 2, 2021

Der Alte said:
You are partially correct. The European slavers usually did not do the capturing of Africans. The capturing was usually done by African tribes capturing their current "enemies"and selling them to the Europeans. I notice there is hardly any uproar about that.

They were pagans and clearly prone to sin.

The European slavers were Christians and knew even at the time that they were committing a sin. There may or may not be an uproar among pagans about them knowingly committing a sin (whatever that might entail within their pagan philosophy), but there is properly an uproar among Christians for Christians knowingly committing sin.

SilverBear · Nov 3, 2021

MehGuy said:
Yeah.. I was talking about more relevant issues that CRT would be concerned about.. like average differences between socioeconomic status between the races. Your technicality answer doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, lol.

So let's discuss - what are the causes of the differences in socioeconomic status between the races?

And what? I don't want such a narrow viewpoint being taught in school. I think I've made it clear that I am quite ignorant about CRT. I'm not trying to tell others this is how it is.

if you are "quite ignorant about CRT" how can you make any claim about it's viewpoint?

Politifact has found that there is no evidence that CRT is being taught in schools

Oh, that's good. So what you're saying is that they do leave the road open to the possibilities of racial disparities at least in some part being due to cultural maybe even genetic factors?

what disparities are you blaming genetics for?

grasping the after wind · Nov 3, 2021

Akita Suggagaki said:
Should I feel bad, guilty and cringe that my ancestors captured Africans and brought them over as slaves? Yes, no and yes.

Glad my ancestors did none of that. Your ancestors were not very nice people. That tells us nothing at all about you though.

BTW, Europeans did not invent slavery nor did they actually do much capturing of slaves in Africa as the bulk of Africans that were sold as slaves were captured by other Africans. There were a number of Europeans that were guilty of being slavers and slave owners and of being racists and of being cruel and despicable ,we ought to blame those Europeans for their actions but we also ought to give credit to the other Europeans that were instrumental in convincing the world that slavery was wrong and were at the forefront of doing away with that institution not only in their own countries but in the rest of the world as well. The job of completely eradicating slavery is not yet finished as traditional slavery still exists in parts of the world and other versions are seen across the globe.

Der Alte · Nov 3, 2021

RDKirk said:
They were pagans and clearly prone to sin.
The European slavers were Christians and knew even at the time that they were committing a sin.

Christians? I doubt that. Pirates, privateers etc. who lived a life of crime could hardly be considered "Christian" in any sense. Coming from a Christian society does not make one "Christian."

There may or may not be an uproar among pagans about them knowingly committing a sin (whatever that might entail within their pagan philosophy), but there is properly an uproar among Christians for Christians knowingly committing sin

See above.

RDKirk · Nov 3, 2021

Der Alte said:
Christians? I doubt that. Pirates, privateers etc. who lived a life of crime could hardly be considered "Christian" in any sense. Coming from a Christian society does not make one "Christian."

That's true about the slave traders themselves. That's the testimony, in fact, of William Wilbeforce (the primary driver of Britain's abolition of slavery) and John Newton (the ex-slave trader who wrote "Amazing Grace"). Both of them turned against the slave trade after becoming Christians.

But most of the slaveowners in the Americas professed to be Christians. Americans like abolitionist pastor Roger Williams were preaching against slavery as early as the 1640s, as it was barely getting started.

In fact, even slaveholders themselves agreed that slavery was a sin. Thomas Jefferson wrote that God was, sooner or later, going to demand retribution for their practice of slavery. At one point during the writing of the Constitution, all of the state delegates except the delegation from South Carolina had agreed to write the abolition of slavery into the Constitution. But the South Carolina delegates were able to pull the other delegates from slaveowning states back around because the money was too good. But they knew then that they were in sin as Christians.

Akita Suggagaki · Nov 3, 2021

Can we acknowledge that slavery is immoral? That Jim Crow laws were immoral?

TLK Valentine · Nov 3, 2021

Akita Suggagaki said:
Can we acknowledge that slavery is immoral? That Jim Crow laws were immoral?

Now, now... we can't be teaching "moral" positions in the classroom -- that would be "indoctrination," doncha know...

Ana the Ist · Nov 3, 2021

TLK Valentine said:
See what happens when you only listen to the detractors?

"CRT means 'whites are evil.'"

How simple, eh?.

We can quote the people creating this stuff if you want...

Whiteness studies - Wikipedia

Critical whiteness studies is one of the many offshoots of CRT.

TLK Valentine said:
Could be -- but if that's the case, it merits a refutation, not a banning.

There's only pure assertion because it's ideological.

It doesn't actually investigate the claims it makes because that would be "engaging in whiteness" and therefore "upholding white supremacy".

That's why the ideology relies upon "lived experiences" which amounts to nothing more than the perspectives of the aggrieved and treats them as truth.

All what things?

Teacher quits over critical race theory, district backs curriculum

MehGuy · Nov 3, 2021

SilverBear said:
So let's discuss - what are the causes of the differences in socioeconomic status between the races?

I don't know.

if you are "quite ignorant about CRT" how can you make any claim about it's viewpoint?

I am wondering if you're purposely being difficult with me. Given that I was born with a language/grammar problem perhaps I am not being clear with my words? I am simply saying that I do not want narrow viewpoints being taught in the classroom and if CRT is indeed promoting narrow viewpoints that I do not want it being taught in the classroom.

Given that I have been repeatedly upfront about being ignorant about CRT I would think it would be easy to deduce this.

Politifact has found that there is no evidence that CRT is being taught in schools

Alright.

what disparities are you blaming genetics for?

I am not blaming disparities on genetic differences. I am simply stating that a serious study of racial issues needs to encompass all possible avenues. No matter how politically incorrect. If it doesn't, it's probably garbage.

Hammster · Nov 3, 2021

ADVISOR HAT ON

Thread cleaned due to returning troll.

ADVISOR HAT OFF

MehGuy · Nov 3, 2021

grasping the after wind said:
Glad my ancestors did none of that. Your ancestors were not very nice people. That tells us nothing at all about you though.

A few years ago I learned that some of my ancestors on my mother's side owned slaves. If I were to hear this news several years ago it would have legitimately been a heavy emotional blow due to the white guilt I had. Thankfully SJWs/BLM folk managed to snap me out of it. Seeing how mean spirited and manipulative many of them are just made me jaded about the whole white guilt thing.

While irrational, it is a very common part of human psychology. To feel guilt for what one's ancestors have done. Especially from immediate family like a father or a mother. Many prominent children from Nazi officials have deep psychological problems over it. Any adult who cheers or engages in trying to develop undeserved guilt in children is a monster.

TLK Valentine · Nov 3, 2021

Ana the Ist said:
We can quote the people creating this stuff if you want...

Whiteness studies - Wikipedia

Critical whiteness studies is one of the many offshoots of CRT.

According to...?

here's only pure assertion because it's ideological.

It doesn't actually investigate the claims it makes because that would be "engaging in whiteness" and therefore "upholding white supremacy".

That's why the ideology relies upon "lived experiences" which amounts to nothing more than the perspectives of the aggrieved and treats them as truth.

Again: according to...?

Teacher quits over critical race theory, district backs curriculum

80% of teachers burn out within 5 years. Whether she's one of them or has a legitimate gripe, who can say?

RDKirk · Nov 3, 2021

Ana the Ist said:
The whole story would include all the good things things those "white people" did for minority groups as well as all the horrible things those minorities did.

You don't really want a full telling of history....you want an extremely biased form of it.

That is already in the story. There are just some gaps to fill in....

RDKirk · Nov 3, 2021

bekkilyn said:
Thank you for posting something other than a one or two line response. So if what I've been seeing coming out of some of the schools and some company trainings and some other institutions isn't actually CRT, then I wonder where they are coming from, or if perhaps they are perversions of an idea that might have come from CRT but have been mutilated or gone extremist in the process (like that telephone game).

That is pretty much what's happening. CRT is, basically, a process of analysis but it is not in itself a set of conclusions. CRT is like a sextant...it's a tool to help one get to a destination. But like a sextant, it's not going to get everyone to the same destination. Some people want to present a set of conclusions and call their conclusions "CRT" but that's like a sailor reaching a shore and declaring that shore is the only place a sextant can get someone to.

As we look into causal factors that have created the current situation of blacks in America and relations between blacks and whites, looking into racism and how racism has been embedded in different fabrics of American society is worthwhile...that's like a pest exterminator pulling back baseboards to find every evidence of vermin infestation.

But this is where purposes and goals need to be examined. Ultimately, the goal must be reconciliation, because neither black Americans nor white Americans are going anywhere. The ultimate purpose of pulling away the baseboards to clean out all traces of the vermin is not to destroy the house, but to repair it. I think that has become a great failure of understanding in America today, and as a Christian I believe there is an evil spirit at work.

As Dave Chapelle has said, we've got the best white people now that we've ever had. This isn't the time to give up hope.

MehGuy · Nov 3, 2021

Akita Suggagaki said:
Can we acknowledge that slavery is immoral? That Jim Crow laws were immoral?

I can.

RDKirk · Nov 3, 2021

TLK Valentine said:
If it was ever "CRT" in the first place. Remember, CRT is not a single ideology or philosophy, but a broad term that covers a wide spectrum of sociological thinking covering about 5 decades of deep academic work.

It would be ridiculously easy for someone to take some asinine lesson plan that never should've made it to a classroom, call it "CRT," and get the fearful and credulous to believe it.

The truth is, CRT is not being taught to your children, never was, and was never going to be -- the only reason you or I have even heard of it is because someone needed to start a moral panic -- providing a fake enemy to rescue you from.

But there appear to be some secondary and primary school educators who have attended a workshop about CRT and think they're teaching it.

LeafByNiggle · Nov 3, 2021

RDKirk said:
But there appear to be some secondary and primary school educators who have attended a workshop about CRT and think they're teaching it.

What's wrong with that? CRT is a valid graduate level concept. Most teachers are grad school educated.

RDKirk · Nov 3, 2021

LeafByNiggle said:
What's wrong with that? CRT is a valid graduate level concept. Most teachers are grad school educated.

I mean to say those primary and secondary teachers came back from those workshops and think that what they're teaching their own classes is "CRT."

What they're teaching their children is not CRT, although some seem to think and state that it is. CRT is a process that's tough for even graduates who have specialized in it to wrap their heads around.

CRT and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion

I've already read the books you want burned.

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Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Well-Known Member

That's grasping after the wind

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Well-Known Member

I've already read the books you want burned.

Aggressively serene!

A member of the less neotenous sex..

Carpe Chaos

A member of the less neotenous sex..

I've already read the books you want burned.

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

A member of the less neotenous sex..

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Well-Known Member

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

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