Crossdressing

[Pliny the Elder]

Well that's interesting. I genuinely mean that, not sarcastic or anything. I'll tell you something funny about that incident with the medieval costume, as we're all being open and honest here.

Crossdressing is definately not my thing. But even I have to admit that I found those damn tights distrubingly comfortable.

Hahaha. There. I said it. Laugh away. Why not? I am.

I have a Utilikilt which may the single most comfortable thing I have ever worn.


http://www.utilikilts.com/

 

[BlackSabb]

I have a Utilikilt which may the single most comfortable thing I have ever worn.


http://www.utilikilts.com/

Yes, but I am extremely uncomfortable about that type of thing. I don't know what your upbringing was like, but mine was very heavy handed with lots of male stereoytype indoctrintion. You know, a heavy emphasis on being a "real man" and all the trappings associated with it.

Good for you if you're able to be yourself. That's not me. My old man is this real old hard line self made man's man. I've always lived in his shadow and I've always tried to live up to his image of being "a man". I'm naturally a regular guy, not an act or anything. But if I come across anything that goes against the grain then I'm uncomfortable.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

Yes, but I am extremely uncomfortable about that type of thing. I don't know what your upbringing was like, but mine was very heavy handed with lots of male stereoytype indoctrintion. You know, a heavy emphasis on being a "real man" and all the trappings associated with it.

I was raised the same way but it never molded how I act or think as I have always done things my way as it were. That is probably why I never got along with my father he just never understood it.

Good for you if you're able to be yourself. That's not me. My old man is this real old hard line self made man's man. I've always lived in his shadow and I've always tried to live up to his image of being "a man". I'm naturally a regular guy, not an act or anything. But if I come across anything that goes against the grain then I'm uncomfortable.

Nothing really ever makes me uncomfortable and I never get self conscious and it is not in any way an act it is just who I am.

 

[BlackSabb]

I was raised the same way but it never molded how I act or think as I have always done things my way as it were. That is probably why I never got along with my father he just never understood it.


Nothing really ever makes me uncomfortable and I never get self conscious and it is not in any way an act it is just who I am.

Well, your personality and mine are totally different. Just being yourself has never been my thing.

Here's a great example. I'm over 40 and last year saw in concert Heaven and Hell (Black Sabbath). My dear old dad is a real hard core fundamentalist religious person opposed to secular music, especially bands like Sabbath. I didn't have the guts to tell him I went and saw them live.

Stupid, eh? Considering my age and I've been married for the best part of a decade now.

 

[cantata]

Well that's interesting. I genuinely mean that, not sarcastic or anything.

Maybe it's a bisexuality thing. Perhaps when you like men and women, you're more likely not to mind things that aren't distinctly one or the other, or which have elements of both.

For me there is something aesthetically very lovely about the combination of traditionally male and female characteristics in one person. There's also, for me, an element of experiencing life as a different person. It's odd how putting on men's clothes changes how one feels, how one interacts with the world. It's liberating.

I'll tell you something funny about that incident with the medieval costume, as we're all being open and honest here.

Crossdressing is definately not my thing. But even I have to admit that I found those damn tights distrubingly comfortable.

Hahaha. There. I said it. Laugh away. Why not? I am.

*grin*

Well, comfort and style are two very different things. Dresses are tremendously comfortable garments, and I'm sure a lot of men would agree, but of course that doesn't make them want to wear them (in public, anyway).

 

[BlackSabb]

*grin*

Well, comfort and style are two very different things. Dresses are tremendously comfortable garments, and I'm sure a lot of men would agree, but of course that doesn't make them want to wear them (in public, anyway).

Well, when you think about it, it's a bit dumb if a guy dresses up in a robe, tunic, tights etc and for a woman to say he looks good in it. Being realistic here. Okay, so you look good in an unconventional piece of attire. So what? You wear that for one day for a costume and you never wear it again.

A bit dumb really.

I could have just as easily picked out a Nazi costume (which there was) and the woman could have said, "that looks good on you". What am I supposed to do? Go and join a neo Nazi party because I looked good in the outfit?

 

[cantata]

Well, when you think about it, it's a bit dumb if a guy dresses up in a robe, tunic, tights etc and for a woman to say he looks good in it. Being realistic here. Okay, so you look good in an unconventional piece of attire. So what? You wear that for one day for a costume and you never wear it again.

A bit dumb really.

I could have just as easily picked out a Nazi costume (which there was) and the woman could have said, "that looks good on you". What am I supposed to do? Go and join a neo Nazi party because I looked good in the outfit?

I'm not suggesting that you should start wearing things you happen to look good in that don't fit in with your self-image.

I'm just saying that sometimes comfort and "looking good" do go against what you want to wear for whatever reason.

By the way, I don't think there's anything "dumb" about someone paying you a compliment when you look good, even if you're wearing something you wouldn't usually wear. A compliment is a nice thing to receive whether you're dressing in your usual style or not.

 

[BlackSabb]

I'm not suggesting that you should start wearing things you happen to look good in that don't fit in with your self-image.

I'm just saying that sometimes comfort and "looking good" do go against what you want to wear for whatever reason.

By the way, I don't think there's anything "dumb" about someone paying you a compliment when you look good, even if you're wearing something you wouldn't usually wear. A compliment is a nice thing to receive whether you're dressing in your usual style or not.

Fair enough I suppose. As I said before, this whole thing of exploring different facets of yourself is very uncomfortable for me. And you know too Cantata as I've told you before and others around here on another thread, that my own wife suggested tights for problems with legs pertaining to circulation and numbing.

I've ummed and ahhed about it, and in the end (recently only) have said no. Simply because I've never been a confident person to be different. If I was too afraid to tell my dad that I went to a Sabbath concert at my age for goodness sakes, how do you think I'd cope with anything more meaningful?

Here's another example. At work, I've had people express disgust at me for keeping a large V8 car. You know, all this enviromental thing. So, now I just don't tell anyone anymore what I drive. Problem solved.

 

[wanderingone]

I know that my wife does not own a single dress or a skirt or high heels and generally wears jeans and t-shirts, which I suppose could be considered masculine clothes and I do not have a problem with it nor have I met anyone that does.

Of course there was a point in time when women in trousers sent people into hysterics. I think if "feminine" clothing was more practical for day to day activities it wouldn't be viewed so strangely if more men made regular use of some article of clothing like a skirt. (Then again it can't hamper one's movements any more than jeans worn below the butt do- but fashion statements aside, pants are generally more utilitarian than dresses.. unless one wants easy access to the parts that lay beneath the skirt)

 

[wanderingone]

Fair enough I suppose. As I said before, this whole thing of exploring different facets of yourself is very uncomfortable for me. And you know too Cantata as I've told you before and others around here on another thread, that my own wife suggested tights for problems with legs pertaining to circulation and numbing.

There are medical versions of tights and socks for such problems.. and using them wouldn't make you different, not to mention nobody would know about them unless you have a job that requires you to remove layers for some reason.

I've ummed and ahhed about it, and in the end (recently only) have said no. Simply because I've never been a confident person to be different. If I was too afraid to tell my dad that I went to a Sabbath concert at my age for goodness sakes, how do you think I'd cope with anything more meaningful?

Well.. dad is one thing, I mean my husband takes his beer and puts it in the car when my mom comes to the house, it's just not worth it to upset her. But not telling someone something because it's not worth it to hear the "blah, blah, blah" or you don't want to hurt or offend them is one thing, if you actually didn't go to a concert because of your dad's opinion that would be a bit more troubling.

Here's another example. At work, I've had people express disgust at me for keeping a large V8 car. You know, all this enviromental thing. So, now I just don't tell anyone anymore what I drive. Problem solved.

I hate giant cars for a variety of reasons, not all "environmental" (I'm an urban dweller, ever try to navigate downtown not widened since the colonial days streets when a hummer gets on them coming the other way?) but again, you haven't modified what you drive in response to the whining you just avoid the topic since you don't care to discuss it.

I think when you hate to upset the status quo it's even harder to understand people who really don't care about it but in my opinion not understanding something is quite reasonable, while attempting to force someone to not do something because you don't understand it, or making their life miserable because you don't understand it is something else.

I don't understand the desire to wear women's clothing... but I don't care if someone wants to.. as long as they don't complain to me about their feet hurting from heels or their pantyhose making it hard for them to breathe- because male or female, if you tell me something like that I'm looking at you like you're nuts and asking who forced you to wear that stuff-just take it off.

 

[sidhe]

I'd hate to be ridiculed like that publicly. If I had a son in those days that cycled, I'd refuse to let him wear those cycling pants. If I had a son today, I'd buy him a pair myself for cycling. I honestly don't think it's worth it to "be who you are" and suffer taunts, ridicule and isolation from others. I've seen for myself the first hand effects of such, and I don't mean just crossdressing. I'm talking about people who have been a little different for whatever reason, whether they have been black sheep of their families, or had some social/personal difficulty like drugs or alcohol etc. And I've known people who've ended it all.

Tragically.

Whenever someone says the bolded, I can't help but think of this quote from The The:

If you can't change the world, change yourself
But if you can't change yourself, then...change the world

Honestly, if people have such an issue with anything different that they would drive someone to suicidal depression over an unwillingness to conform, then the problem is with society, not the individuals.

I'd rather work to change the world than change myself...it's personally easier to try to get people to accept me as I am than conform. I get way more depressed from repression than I ever do from a taunt or tease thrown my way.

 

[quatona]

I was wondering about a couple of things. Do you believe that this is nature or nurture?

I don´t know and I don´t care. Probably nature for some, nurture for others and a mixture for again others.

For those that support it, how would you feel if it was your partner that engaged in crossdressing?

My girlfriend typically wears blue jeans, t-shirts and leather jackets. Would that be crossdressing?
I have long hair. Would that be crosshairing?

 

[allhart]

I don´t know and I don´t care. Probably nature for some, nurture for others and a mixture for again others.

My girlfriend typically wears blue jeans, t-shirts and leather jackets. Would that be crossdressing?
I have long hair. Would that be crosshairing?

I think you are right. They can play house all the want doesn't mean they are any different than they where born.

 

[quatona]

And now, you hardly see anyone cycling without wearing them, male or female. I doubt anyone blinks an eye anymore. Why? Because it has become accepted. As I said before, this is an example of how society dictates fashion and clothing. It may be right, it may be wrong, but that's the way it is.

I'd hate to be ridiculed like that publicly.

Well, according to this line of reasoning a change in fashion requires a lot of people who are willing to be ridiculed publicly.

If I had a son in those days that cycled, I'd refuse to let him wear those cycling pants.

Because you are afraid to be ridiculed you dictate your son what to wear??

I honestly don't think it's worth it to "be who you are" and suffer taunts, ridicule and isolation from others.

That´s your prerogative. Your son may think differently.
Besides, I really don´t know what cycling clothes have to do with "who you are".

I've seen for myself the first hand effects of such, and I don't mean just crossdressing. I'm talking about people who have been a little different for whatever reason, whether they have been black sheep of their families, or had some social/personal difficulty like drugs or alcohol etc. And I've known people who've ended it all.

Because they were ridiculed for their clothes? Come on.

 

[quatona]

I think you are right. They can play house all the want doesn't mean they are any different than they where born.

The first sentence of your post does not go well with the second one.

 

[allhart]

The first sentence of your post does not go well with the second one.

They can play a different role all they want ,but they are still born a man or a women in reality.

 

[Jade Margery]

If I found out my boyfriend crossdressed, I'd just be surprised. I might tease him a little about it, the way he teases me for certain... uh... things... that I like. Actually, it would even the score at this point. :3

But it would not actually bother me. I would just be sad that he hadn't felt comfortable enough to tell me up to that point, but I understand the fear and stigma that comes with wanting something that isn't socially acceptable. As far as our relationship went, well, it might add an interesting twist to our love life (He wouldn't be the only one struggling to undo bra snaps!) but since we are no where near the same size he wouldn't be able to borrow my clothes so it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[QuakerOats]

I understand the want, or maybe 'need' of some individuals to compartmentalize things, and assign labels like 'men's clothing,' and 'women's clothing,' etc., but at the end of the day, that's all it is; social conditioning. I have no problem at all with 'cross-dressing.' I believe people should be able to wear what they want, and if that means a man is going to be seen sporting something typically considered feminine, so what? I mean, that's just what it comes down to...'so what?' They're not hurting anyone by doing so. This is not a slight against you, BlackSabb, but if outward appearance is at the top of our list of things to be concerned about, we've got a problem, and a fairly large one at that.

 

[quatona]

They can play a different role all they want ,but they are still born a man or a women in reality.

Well, that´s not what I said nor meant.

 

[Maren]

They can play a different role all they want ,but they are still born a man or a women in reality.

Oh, and what makes a person a man or woman in reality?