Critical Race Theory

rturner76

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Should I assume that it's possible you are a racist or maybe a thief or drug dealer based on the color of your skin?
No. I don't think anybody should assume anything about another person regardless of race. FOr example, I'm am a very introverted person (in person). Many people have made assumptions that I am stuck up because I don't talk much. They feel slighted but I am basically just shy. In that kind of situation, people have taken my behavior to mean something that it doesn't. They assume I think something I don't So no, it's not good to make assumptions about anybody. You don't always know what's going on in somebodies head.
 
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rjs330

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I don't dispute that. It's an ugly way to look at life but it is more common than a lot of people think.

Yup. That's what happens when you either assume someone is racist due to the color of their skin or you assume they are possibly racist because of the color of their skin. That's what happens when you are told that white people have systemic racism policies and laws to prevent others firm succeeding and keeping them in power.
 
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rjs330

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No. I don't think anybody should assume anything about another person regardless of race. FOr example, I'm am a very introverted person (in person). Many people have made assumptions that I am stuck up because I don't talk much. They feel slighted but I am basically just shy. In that kind of situation, people have taken my behavior to mean something that it doesn't. They assume I think something I don't So no, it's not good to make assumptions about anybody. You don't always know what's going on in somebodies head.

Then why do you assume it's possible a white person is racist?
 
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rturner76

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Yup. That's what happens when you either assume someone is racist due to the color of their skin or you assume they are possibly racist because of the color of their skin. That's what happens when you are told that white people have systemic racism policies and laws to prevent others firm succeeding and keeping them in power.
That's why I don't assume anything. I just know it's a possibility no matter what their color is.
 
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rturner76

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Then why do you assume it's possible a white person is racist?
I assume it's possible that anybody is racist or prejudiced. I don't assume they ARE because they are white.
 
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rjs330

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I assume it's possible that anybody is racist or prejudiced. I don't assume they ARE because they are white.

But you don't want people assuming it's possible you are a thief or drug dealer based on your skin color. Why would you assume it's possible a white person is racist?
 
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rturner76

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But you don't want people assuming it's possible you are a thief or drug dealer based on your skin color. Why would you assume it's possible a white person is racist?
The same way I assume a black person COULD BE racist. I don't assume people ARE racist no matter the color. In the case of white people (namely men), they have more opportunities to apply their racial or prejudicial beliefs (the ones that have them) to their method of hiring and promoting their employees. That is where racism becomes more than just an attitude and can be used as a weapon against minorities.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Well if you don't think racism exists any longer in the U.S. no assumption is need.

I don't see why it would be needed even if you do believe racism exists.

Why not drop the assumptions and simply judge people according to their actual conduct?
 
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rjs330

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The same way I assume a black person COULD BE racist. I don't assume people ARE racist no matter the color. In the case of white people (namely men), they have more opportunities to apply their racial or prejudicial beliefs (the ones that have them) to their method of hiring and promoting their employees. That is where racism becomes more than just an attitude and can be used as a weapon against minorities.

You do assume black people could be racist? Interesting. Why not assume no one is racist into they prove otherwise?
 
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It may be a factor but it shouldn't be the deciding factor.

That's not really answering the question I'm asking.

I'm asking for your opinion here...

Do you think race should be a factor in those kinds of decisions?

I don't assume it IS but I assume that the is POSSIBLE.

But you do assume it is happening....

After all, that's how you described racism "today"....it's hidden from plain sight.


That was when were "the melting pot." Meaning we all conform to the norms of European culture. These days people bring their culture here and keep it more like a tossed salad. Different individual flavors making up one dish (country). We are a country of immigrants My great grandparents came from Sweden. When they got here and became citizens they dropped their old language and didn't teach it to their children because they were now Americans. People these days hold on to their home culture. Also, many people born here seek knowledge of and celebrate their original culture whether it be West African, Irish, Lithuanian, or whatever. People feel connected to their roots more than the American cultural ideal these days it seems.

This isn't exactly what I was referring to...but hey, I'll comment on this instead.

We have engaged in a sort of politically correct lie...we tell people that it's immoral or unethical to criticize someone's culture (with a few exceptions) yet we believe it's acceptable to criticize our own (a right that is basically non-partisan).

This automatically creates a sort of social environment where even if we think the society/culture that someone left to come here is awful (and the only people I've found who genuinely imagine everywhere else is better are those who don't know anything about other cultures)....we don't tell them their native culture is awful. That would be rude....disrespectful....yet the same people have no issue with telling someone who has a t-shirt with a confederate flag they're an awful racist piece of garbage.

And so we've continued along this sort of narrow view for several decades now....with mainly the left insisting that it's bigoted or xenophobic or something to criticize a foreign culture or society (with a few exceptions).

When you realize this means we likely have an entire group of young people who have never heard anyone legitimately criticize another culture or society....but have heard almost endless criticism of their own.

It's not difficult to understand why this person might overlook the Uighyer genocide or the second class citizen status of women in many nations...or the brutal treatment of homosexuals....all things you would imagine a young Democrat voter to be against...

Yet when asked....they respond that they support Palestine, despite sharing values with Israel. Women aren't protected from domestic abuse by any laws...so unfortunately, many experience abuse regularly. Last I checked, it's illegal to be gay in Palestine.

Yet, as I write these words....it's hard for me to think of a young leftist responding to these points in some kind of consistent manner. It is this bizarre view of not criticizing other cultures as being some sort of moral good. It's been carried on so long that young people on the left appear to hold contradictory and ridiculous views of both their nation and others.
 
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rturner76

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You do assume black people could be racist? Interesting. Why not assume no one is racist into they prove otherwise?
Because I have seen so many people who are polite but once they get around some like-minded people (and especially when the booze comes out) all of a sudden it's like the filters go away and they reveal their true way of thinking.

That's blacks, whites, or whoever else. I was in the kitchen with my girlfriend at the time's family and I hear, "yeah mixed people are ok to hang around with but you can't trust 'em because they will always have that white side." Basically letting me know I'm not one of them.

I thought these people were my friends but they always saved a bit of animosity for me. White "friends" have done the same. So I admit these experiences have colored my feelings about people hiding it.
 
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rturner76

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Do you think race should be a factor in those kinds of decisions?
No

Yet, as I write these words....it's hard for me to think of a young leftist responding to these points in some kind of consistent manner. It is this bizarre view of not criticizing other cultures as being some sort of moral good. It's been carried on so long that young people on the left appear to hold contradictory and ridiculous views of both their nation and others.
I think they are accepting of the American version of these places. Meaning Palistinian culture with American laws. I don't think most "leftists" would agree with Sharia law but they don't have the desire to invade other countries to stop it by force. It seems alll of the good revolutions (the ones that worked) cultural or military were started from within. But I'm not the authority of "the left" or their "agenda." I just vote for the guy/gal I think will do the best job (admittedly that's usually a Democrat.)

To me, most of this debate is online, facebook, Twitter, istagram, snap chat, whatever else is where people are having extreme ideas. Most people I talk to in person I can mostly see eye to eye with. In these discussions the view gets more and more narrow and the grey areas start to go away.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I gotta admit, I'm surprised by that. I thought you were all in favor of this diversity and equity stuff.

I think they are accepting of the American version of these places. Meaning Palistinian culture with American laws.

Is there such a place? I can't think of any.

I don't think most "leftists" would agree with Sharia law but they don't have the desire to invade other countries to stop it by force.

I don't expect that they would want to invade.

What I'm talking about though is this idea (and it's one example of many) of supporting Palestine over Israel. There's no version of that which doesn't end with the destruction of Israel. They haven't really pretended to be interested in a 2 state solution for awhile now.

One might argue that Israel no longer seeks a 2 state solution either...and that's a fair point.

So if you have to choose between the existence of one state or the other....you have a choice between a state that allows violence towards women and gay people....and Israel.

It's hard not to conclude that the support for Palestine has nothing to do with Palestine and everything to do with hatred of Israel.

It seems alll of the good revolutions (the ones that worked) cultural or military were started from within.

All the bad ones too....because that's the difference between a revolution and invasion....starting location.
 
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rturner76

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I gotta admit, I'm surprised by that. I thought you were all in favor of this diversity and equity stuff.
I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood the question because I do believe in diversity training and celebrating different cultures. I don't believe in deciding who is in what classroom or eligible for what job based on race or ethnicity.
Is there such a place? I can't think of any.
I America there are Palestinian neighborhoods where they bring over their food and themselves with their own way of dressing and their own social norms. I think there is room for that in a tossed-salad society.
It's hard not to conclude that the support for Palestine has nothing to do with Palestine and everything to do with hatred of Israel.
I think the disdain is for how the local people were displaced with no compensation then contimued to squeeze more and more of them out over the decades. Whole families had to leave their homes with what they could carry under the threat of military violence. I see why Israel felt like they had to do it but it was a pretty harsh move to make all of those people homeless and just move into their homes based on the fact that they could prove they were a Jew.
I think it would have been a more peaceful solution to just buy the local people out. Give them a good price for their home and move in peacefully. They brought a lot of money with them. Maybe that wasn't possible but they just kind of charged in and took it. A whole ethnic group was removed from their homes by force.
I admit however I do not know all of the nuances of the situation
 
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rturner76

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Then why do you assume it's possible a white person is racist?
Because it's possible for anybody to be racist. You can't assume to know what twist someone has in their thinking about any subject.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood the question because I do believe in diversity training and celebrating different cultures. I don't believe in deciding who is in what classroom or eligible for what job based on race or ethnicity.

DEI advisors....or whatever they go by....primarily focus on getting people hired if they're of certain races.

This was going pretty smoothly for them until recently. Just as it looked like they were making considerable gains in the corporate world....they got shut out of a lot of hiring processes in corporate America. The shareholders of major companies like Coca-Cola and Pfizer realized that the Civil rights lawsuits could cost them a fortune...so now they rolled back a lot of policies.
I America there are Palestinian neighborhoods where they bring over their food and themselves with their own way of dressing and their own social norms. I think there is room for that in a tossed-salad society.
I think the disdain is for how the local people were displaced with no compensation then contimued to squeeze more and more of them out over the decades. Whole families had to leave their homes with what they could carry under the threat of military violence. I see why Israel felt like they had to do it but it was a pretty harsh move to make all of those people homeless and just move into their homes based on the fact that they could prove they were a Jew.
I think it would have been a more peaceful solution to just buy the local people out. Give them a good price for their home and move in peacefully. They brought a lot of money with them. Maybe that wasn't possible but they just kind of charged in and took it. A whole ethnic group was removed from their homes by force.
I admit however I do not know all of the nuances of the situation

A lot of it involves buying people out.

The main problem is twofold as I see it....

1. Israel gave back a considerable amount of land after fighting for it and winning.
2. Palestinians aren't given refugee status by neighboring Arab states.

These two measures have basically ensured the Palestinian people have stayed in a squalid crowded area which remains a constant point of anger and resentment.
 
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