Critical Race Theory

[Ana the Ist]

As I said, I don't assume people ARE racist but that they COULD BE.

Here's what you said...

Things have gotten much better since the year 2000. Racists are much more clever about hiding their true feelings in public but they always try to make a way for their own first. Just look over any boardroom of any major company and it's a majority of older white males. The same has been true since the founding of this country.

You didn't characterize people as "possibly racist"....you called them racists. We already established that you don't really need any evidence of racism, nor would you be able to tell them apart from people who aren't racist.

To sit there and suggest now that you merely consider the possibility that people are racist is dishonest....you assume it from the start.

 

[rturner76]

Here's what you said...



You didn't characterize people as "possibly racist"....you called them racists. We already established that you don't really need any evidence of racism, nor would you be able to tell them apart from people who aren't racist.

To sit there and suggest now that you merely consider the possibility that people are racist is dishonest....you assume it from the start.

Right, I don't know who they specifically are but I know they are out there. Racists hide their views so no, you can't always prove somebody is racist. It would be stupid to make it obvious that you were racist, that's why they hide it from the people who care about equality.

Yep, I consider it possible that anybody could be racist. That's different than assuming everybody is racist.

 

[rjs330]

Right, I don't know who they specifically are but I know they are out there. Racists hide their views so no, you can't always prove somebody is racist. It would be stupid to make it obvious that you were racist, that's why they hide it from the people who care about equality.

Yep, I consider it possible that anybody could be racist. That's different than assuming everybody is racist.

What a negative world you live in. It would seem that you believe most white people are racist. If you believe there is systemic racism then that is the only way that could be. So what you are doing is starting the assumption that the person or people are racists that run the system whether they show it outwardly or not. What a negative way to live and think about your fellow man.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

White bubble? Are you saying it's more dangerous in a black bubble? Is the world more real there?

All bubbles are dangerous and we should try to avoid living in them since they can distort reality.

 

[rjs330]

All bubbles are dangerous and we should try to avoid living in them since they can distort reality.

That makes no sense. What's your definition of bubble? I have a feeling that everyone lives in a bubble of some sort. Those who live in a city live in a bubble. Those who live in a small town live in a bubble. Those who live in a poor community live in a bubble. In a city itself is nothing but bubbles of where you live where you work and where you go to school.

You are asking an impossibility I think.

So you believe someone that lives in a safe "white" bubble should move to an unsafe "black bubble" so they can experience the real world?

I'm afraid you just made no sense.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

That makes no sense. What's your definition of bubble? I have a feeling that everyone lives in a bubble of some sort. Those who live in a city live in a bubble. Those who live in a small town live in a bubble. Those who live in a poor community live in a bubble. In a city itself is nothing but bubbles of where you live where you work and where you go to school.

You are asking an impossibility I think.

So you believe someone that lives in a safe "white" bubble should move to an unsafe "black bubble" so they can experience the real world?

I'm afraid you just made no sense.

We can try to widen our horizons. Widen our world view. Try to see things from the perspective of others.

 

[rjs330]

We can try to widen our horizons. Widen our world view. Try to see things from the perspective of others.

Of course we should. It's another reason we are in this board. I think you may be living in a bubble yourself if you assume others don't have a wider view of the world. I think you assumed that about me. Not a good plan. Especially when you know little about me or my life.

 

[rturner76]

What a negative world you live in. It would seem that you believe most white people are racist. If you believe there is systemic racism then that is the only way that could be. So what you are doing is starting the assumption that the person or people are racists that run the system whether they show it outwardly or not. What a negative way to live and think about your fellow man.

I don't know that all or even most white people are racists but I know there are plenty who are.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Of course we should. It's another reason we are in this board. I think you may be living in a bubble yourself if you assume others don't have a wider view of the world. I think you assumed that about me. Not a good plan. Especially when you know little about me or my life.

Well if you don't think racism exists any longer in the U.S. no assumption is need.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Right, I don't know who they specifically are but I know they are out there. Racists hide their views so no, you can't always prove somebody is racist. It would be stupid to make it obvious that you were racist, that's why they hide it from the people who care about equality.

Yep, I consider it possible that anybody could be racist. That's different than assuming everybody is racist.

Obviously it's not just you @rturner76....plenty of people black or otherwise hold similar negative assumptions about others and they end up pretty angry at people for no good reason.

I had an example I used as a go-to for this situation in the past...but I'm tired of digging up the same 2 videos.

1. A woman is angry at racist store clerks for coming up to her and asking "if she needs help". She thinks they are only doing this because she is black and they assume she's stealing.

2. A different woman us angry at racist store clerks for not coming up to her and asking if she needs help. She thinks they avoid doing this because she's black and they assume she's too poor to waste time helping as she can't afford much if anything.

So in both cases, you have a black woman who is perceiving racism regardless of whether or not the store clerk engages in perfectly normal behavior at work. This doesn't seem like a big deal, unless of course she makes this accusation public and it gets taken seriously. It might cost a person their job.

What would you tell the store clerk to do regarding black women shopping at the store? Or do you think it would be better for these women to stop assuming the worst in people?

I get that you're sort of doing the same thing....and it seems like a miserable way to live. Is there something you feel like you get out of it? Does it justify the way you feel towards some people? Does it justify certain behavior? Why adopt a view that ensures you'll see the worst in situations you don't need to?

 

[rjs330]

Well if you don't think racism exists any longer in the U.S. no assumption is need.

Who on earth ever said there is not racism in the US. Wow, what swing and a miss on your part.

I'd like you to quote me where I said racism no longer exists. Either that or take it back.

 

[rturner76]

What would you tell the store clerk to do regarding black women shopping at the store? Or do you think it would be better for these women to stop assuming the worst in people?

The store clerk should be following their training. If they were trained to ask people if they want help finding something they should do that.

While I agree that it is wrong to assume people are racist after one encounter, there are other factors at play with these encounters. For example, did the clerk roll their eyes or make a sigh at being asked for help or did they approach the customer in an aggressive or unfriendly way? Eye contact and body language can be indicators of someone's attitude.

Having said that, I personally wouldn't care if the clerk was racist or not. They are there to do a job and I'm there to buy something. We do our business and part ways When it becomes a problem IMO is when stereotypes and racist ideas influence a person's decision in the hiring or promotion of people, traffic stops, courtroom decisions and the like. I think it's only natural to hire or promote people who you feel more comfortable being around and people you can relate to.

I don't think it makes these people evil but it is racism in practice, or in other words preferential treatment for our own. It's a very natural way to think

and that's why we formed tribes and worked to protect the people of our tribes. These days the "tribes" have become "races."

I get that you're sort of doing the same thing....and it seems like a miserable way to live. Is there something you feel like you get out of it? Does it justify the way you feel towards some people? Does it justify certain behavior? Why adopt a view that ensures you'll see the worst in situations you don't need to?

I don't think I assume racism in all of my negative encounters but I do believe it's a possibility. It's a bit different than assuming everyone I have a negative encounter with is a racist.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The store clerk should be following their training. If they were trained to ask people if they want help finding something they should do that.

That's not going to be the factor you might think it is. Even if they're trained to ask customers if they need help...it's unlikely they manage to do this for every single customer.

While I agree that it is wrong to assume people are racist after one encounter, there are other factors at play with these encounters. For example, did the clerk roll their eyes or make a sigh at being asked for help or did they approach the customer in an aggressive or unfriendly way? Eye contact and body language can be indicators of someone's attitude.

Sure....and just as you can wrongly attribute the clerk's behavior to racism, you can wrongly attribute their body language to racism too.

Having said that, I personally wouldn't care if the clerk was racist or not. They are there to do a job and I'm there to buy something. We do our business and part ways When it becomes a problem IMO is when stereotypes and racist ideas influence a person's decision in the hiring or promotion of people, traffic stops, courtroom decisions and the like.

You don't think race should be a factor that people consider when making these decisions?

I don't think it makes these people evil but it is racism in practice, or in other words preferential treatment for our own. It's a very natural way to think

Again, you pretty clearly attribute certain things to racism without evidence.

Why? Why assume this about people?

and that's why we formed tribes and worked to protect the people of our tribes. These days the "tribes" have become "races."

Which is sad...because for years it looked like we were moving away from that sort of thinking. It's a shame to see it making a comeback amongst different groups.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Who on earth ever said there is not racism in the US. Wow, what swing and a miss on your part.

I'd like you to quote me where I said racism no longer exists. Either that or take it back.

I apologize. I must have confused you with a different poster (maybe even on a different thread like this one).

Can we ever get over racism?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Racists hide their views...anybody could be racist.

To clarify the word "anybody", only "white" people can be "racist", correct?

 

[rturner76]

To clarify the word "anybody", only "white" people can be "racist", correct?

No. Anybody can be racist, meaning they believe their race is superior or that others are inferior. White people are more often in a position to apply their racism in business/employment/traffic stop situations.

 

[rturner76]

You don't think race should be a factor that people consider when making these decisions?

It may be a factor but it shouldn't be the deciding factor.

Again, you pretty clearly attribute certain things to racism without evidence.
Why? Why assume this about people?

I don't assume it IS but I assume that the is POSSIBLE.

Which is sad...because for years it looked like we were moving away from that sort of thinking. It's a shame to see it making a comeback amongst different groups.

That was when were "the melting pot." Meaning we all conform to the norms of European culture. These days people bring their culture here and keep it more like a tossed salad. Different individual flavors making up one dish (country). We are a country of immigrants My great grandparents came from Sweden. When they got here and became citizens they dropped their old language and didn't teach it to their children because they were now Americans. People these days hold on to their home culture. Also, many people born here seek knowledge of and celebrate their original culture whether it be West African, Irish, Lithuanian, or whatever. People feel connected to their roots more than the American cultural ideal these days it seems.

 

[rjs330]

No. Anybody can be racist, meaning they believe their race is superior or that others are inferior. White people are more often in a position to apply their racism in business/employment/traffic stop situations.

If you think racism is only about thinking you're superior then you are missing something very important. Racism also encompasses a dislike for another race because you think the other race has harmed you in some fashion.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
"a program to combat racism"

Note it is typically against a minority. And I don't argue against that. But that is "typically" not only or solely. You can be racist against a majority because you think the majority is against you or oppresses you.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group.

So it you are antagonistic towards people or prejudiced against people based on the color of their skin you are being racist.

And we are seeing a lot of antagonism and prejudice towards white people.

 

[rjs330]

I don't assume it IS but I assume that the is POSSIBLE.

Should I assume that it's possible you are a racist or maybe a thief or drug dealer based on the color of your skin?

 

[rturner76]

And we are seeing a lot of antagonism and prejudice towards white people.

I don't dispute that. It's an ugly way to look at life but it is more common than a lot of people think.