Creationists: What have you studied re: evolution? What resources have you specifically used?

[d taylor]

The Bible is not a reliable source in this discussion. The Bible is the claim. By your standards all religions are true and all religions are false.

So your claim is valid but the Bible is not. Since you stated you personally have not tested these evolution claims, you just believe what you have read.

 

[d taylor]

Do you feel you are sufficiently supporting your beliefs here?

My belief that God created His creation. Yes i have supported that i believe that.

 

[d taylor]

No it doesn't.

Sure it does
Many witness in the Bible state that God created man.
None state that God evolved man

 

[pitabread]

Sure it does
Many witness in the Bible state that God created man.
None state that God evolved man

If the Bible doesn't use the term evolution, then how could it possibly say that evolution was a lie?

In truth, the Bible doesn't actually explain the process God used. It could very well have been evolution. Humans use evolution as a creative process. Why couldn't God have done so as well?

 

[Speedwell]

Sure it does
Many witness in the Bible state that God created man.
None state that God evolved man

Evolution is not a form of creation?

 

[Speedwell]

My belief that God created His creation. Yes i have supported that i believe that.

And in the process made false and unpleasant remarks about those who don't think He created in exactly the same way you do. In fact, I think that's why you really came here.

 

[d taylor]

If the Bible doesn't use the term evolution, then how could it possibly say that evolution was a lie?

In truth, the Bible doesn't actually explain the process God used. It could very well have been evolution.

A time lengthen is given, a 6 day work time, same as many people work today.

Does the Bible explain the process of miracles of Jesus.

Did it take million of years for Jesus to work His miracles.

When God does the work Himself it is quickly done, when He works through man it may take longer.

 

[d taylor]

And in the process made false and unpleasant remarks about those who don't think He created in exactly the same way you do. In fact, I think that's why you really came here.

Believe what you want.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So your claim is valid but the Bible is not. Since you stated you personally have not tested these evolution claims, you just believe what you have read.

You are not listening. My claims are valid only because I can support them with evidence. The Bible is a claim itself. It is not evidence. What evidence supports your creationist beliefs? Once again, in this case the Bible is the claim. It can't be both claim and evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Believe what you want.

Belief is not based on wants if one reasons rationally. If one believes rationally, following objective evidence, belief is not a choice. If one chooses to believe in the Bible that is an admission that one is not reasoning rationally.

I can choose to believe that a rock that I throw up will not come down, even though all of the evidence says that it will. That belief that goes against evidence is not rational and possibly dangerous if I walk underneath the rock that I just threw up.

 

[d taylor]

You are not listening. My claims are valid only because I can support them with evidence. The Bible is a claim itself. It is not evidence. What evidence supports your creationist beliefs? Once again, in this case the Bible is the claim. It can't be both claim and evidence.

You do not support them with evidence, you support them from statements from some person who says this has done that over millions of years.

At best that is hearsay evidence.

 

[Speedwell]

Believe what you want.

Then what was it? Your zeal to drive from Christ and salvation all those Christians who don't agree with your interpretation of Genesis?

 

[pitabread]

A time lengthen is given, a 6 day work time, same as many people work today.

Does the Bible explain the process of miracles of Jesus.

Did it take million of years for Jesus to work His miracles.

When God does the work Himself it is quickly done, when He works through man it may take longer.

So? This still doesn't preclude God using evolution. After all, God is a supernatural, all powering entity. Perhaps they accelerated the process.

Are you suggesting God is not capable of such things?

 

[pitabread]

At best that is hearsay evidence.

The courts disagree. Any time this gets challenged in court, the courts seem happy to reaffirm the validity of modern science.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You do not support them with evidence, you support them from statements from some person who says this has done that over millions of years.

At best that is hearsay evidence.

No, that is not hearsay. You are misusing that term. Since one can find the peer reviewed sources if one bothers it is the opposite of hearsay.

 

[d taylor]

So? This still doesn't preclude God using evolution. After all, God is a supernatural, all powering entity. Perhaps they accelerated the process.

Are you suggesting God is not capable of such things?

When a God can create in a brief moment there is not a need to accelerate. The only part of God and His creating that may come close to any ages you believe your scientist are discovering.

Is one, God creates and what he has created is fully functioning and grown. So if God stood before you and created a dog, to you in time that dog is a few seconds old, but yet you will be seeing a full grown dog.

Another is God created heavens and earth in Genesis 1:1 there is good reason to believe there is a time space between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Where satans fall occurred. So Genesis 1:3 is not the original creation but a restoring of the creation in 1:1 with possible changes made for the habitation of humans and not angels.

So Gods creation can not be dated.

 

[pitabread]

When a God can create in a brief moment there is not a need to accelerate. The only part of God and His creating that may come close to any ages you believe your scientist are discovering.

I'm not sure that "need" has anything to do with it. It's a question of what they could or could not have done, not necessarily what they needed to do.

Is one, God creates and what he has created is fully functioning and grown. So if God stood before you and created a dog, to you in time that dog is a few seconds old, but yet you will be seeing a full grown dog.

There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that this is how God created animals though. In fact, if you read Genesis 1, it suggests there was a process of bringing things forth from the Earth. At no point does it say "God just materialized organisms fully formed from thin air".

So Gods creation can not be dated.

Then that's a contradiction with the above. You can't assume God didn't use an accelerated process of some kind and then turn around and claim we can't ascribe a date to anything.

 

[d taylor]

The courts disagree. Any time this gets challenged in court, the courts seem happy to reaffirm the validity of modern science.

Get a good lawyer and courts will buy into anything,.

But really in the end it is not really about evolution, that is just one path way in the spiritual battle being fought.

 

[Speedwell]

Get a good lawyer and courts will buy into anything,.

But really in the end it is not really about evolution, that is just one path way in the spiritual battle being fought.

Which you will inevitably lose. It is beyond your power to hold the Gospel of Christ hostage to your literal interpretation of Genesis.

 

[pitabread]

I find it fascinating that in a thread where I ask creationists what resources they've used to learn about evolution (in response to several creationists claiming they've 'researched' the subject), I don't get any specific answers.

Yet, in a parallel thread where I ask evolutionists what sources they use to learn about creationism/ID, there are numerous specific answers: Evolutionists: What have you studied re: creationism/ID? What resources have you specifically used?

Why is that I wonder? Why do evolutionists (e.g. non-creationists) seem so much more willing to research and learn about creationism and ID than creationists are willing to research and learn about evolution?