Creationists: Explain your understanding of microevolution and macroevolution

[Frank Robert]

Good morning to you, too. Asserting that abiogenesis is an alternative to "God did it" is a falsehood. Asserting that the the theory of evolution rests on it is also a falsehood. Care to try for three in a row or are you interested in a civil conversation?

Evolution is the study of how life evolved from the first single-celled organisms. Evolution is not interested or effected of how they came about.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, really. That was kind of a Don Lemon-ism.

What's a Don Lemon-ism?

 

[Astrid]

Fact is, there IS an evolution vs God argument. You may not be part of that, but the argument is out there, bigly. And yes, it comes from both sides. The challenge is that one side thinks the other is anti-God and the other side thinks that side is stupid.

They are both wrong - and right - in some ways. Those that are actually steeped in the research don't usually engage in these sorts of debates. They're kinda pointless. I dabble in them for fun sometimes and then suddenly catch myself - which I just did - and get back to stuff that matters.

Stupid, sometimes. Always ignorant and /
or intellectually dishonest. It is impossible
to be an informed, honest creationist.
Same with, oh, astrology.
In China, if this is of interest, creationism
is hardly worth an eye roll- something like
astrology at NASA.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is no "evolution vs. God" argument on the evolution side. There is an "evolution vs. the God of the magic Bible" argument on the evolution side, but most Christians don't have a dog in that fight.

That's academia for you.

"No God ... but a God of the magic Bible."

"No miracles ... just magic."

"No child in the womb ... just fetus."

And a list of other words academia Arab phones.

 

[Speedwell]

That's academia for you.

"No God ... but a God of the magic Bible."

That's wrong from the get-go. There are theists is "academia." There are Christians, devout ones, in academia--just not very many who believe in the magic Bible God.

 

[AV1611VET]

But I think that you're entirely and flat out wrong if you think that because the theory of evolution is a scientific fact means that people need to give up moral thinking and beliefs.

Tell that to the untold millions of children who were removed from their mothers' wombs in the name of biological reclassification (viz., "child" to "fetus").

Just like Pluto lost its status as an ordinal planet (our 9th), children lose their status as ... well ... children, and become unwanted tissue, fit for heating furnaces in hospitals in the winter.

Leviticus 18:21a And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech,

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Tell that to the untold millions of children who were removed from their mothers' wombs in the name of biological reclassification (viz., "child" to "fetus").

Just like Pluto lost its status as an ordinal planet (our 9th), children lose their status as ... well ... children, and become unwanted tissue, fit for heating furnaces in hospitals in the winter.

Leviticus 18:21a And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech,

How on earth can you compare the argument over abortion to bloody Pluto not being a planet? How are they even comparable?

Also, neither of those has anything to do with the theory of evolution being a fact.

 

[AV1611VET]

Evolution is the study of how life evolved from the first single-celled organisms. Evolution is not interested or effected of how they came about.

There was no first "single-celled organism".

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I can't speak for them. BTW, I just checked the post you were referring to. I think his point is valid as an analogy.

Except that it really isn't an analogy - the key concept isn't common to both.

The big problem with evolution theory is that until it can offer a reasonable explanation of how life came from lifelessness, it's all just conjecture regarding every claim other than those actually seen in the lab during testing.

It's not a problem; evolution theory begins after the origin of life - it makes no difference whether the first living things were made by gods, aliens, magic, or plain old chemistry. The ToE explains what happens given simple organisms that reproduce with heritable variation.

 

[AV1611VET]

In China, if this is of interest, creationism
is hardly worth an eye roll- something like astrology at NASA.

So China doesn't take any interest in asking Christians questions about their beliefs, so they can counter those beliefs in their science books?

 

[Speedwell]

Tell that to the untold millions of children who were removed from their mothers' wombs in the name of biological reclassification (viz., "child" to "fetus").

No, "fetus" as a term came first.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's wrong from the get-go. There are theists is "academia."

There are "theists" in Mormon temples too.

There are Christians, devout ones, in academia--

Because of it, or in spite of it?

... just not very many who believe in the magic Bible God.

Good.

I hope no one believes in "the magic Bible God."

But alas ...

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

When something DOES evolve beyond what the laws of thermodynamics predict, it's because it was forced via someone intelligence and purpose.

Nothing has evolved beyond what the laws of thermodynamics allow. Even car design and manufacture is subject to the laws of thermodynamics.

Evolutionary biology depends on the laws of thermodynamics for its essential energy conversion - it's a long-winded, slowed-down version of what happens in a fire; but instead of ash and carbon dioxide, it works at sufficiently low temperatures to produce organic tissue and carbon dioxide.

 

[AV1611VET]

How on earth can you compare the argument over abortion to bloody Pluto not being a planet? How are they even comparable?

Concentrate on the verbs, not the nouns, and you just might understand my point.

 

[Frank Robert]

There was no first "single-celled organism".

I thought you believed that everything has to have a cause. Whether God caused it, or nature through God caused it or nature alone caused it, there had to be a first single celled organism.

 

[Direct Driver]

What's a Don Lemon-ism?

Don Lemon is the poorest of televised political opinion, IMO. Agree or disagree, he will talk over qualified guests if he disagrees with them and can't counter them, or he will just do his exasperated "really?", "REALLY?", with no actual argument behind it. I remember Laura Ingraham did the exact same thing, but she followed up the second "really" with facts and evidence to explain why what she was responding to was so utterly vapid and ridiculous. Lemon just lazily presumed we all just knew it was true without supporting that position.

I see him as an affirmative action hire. There is really nothing else he brings to the table that I can think of. Stelter can be worse, but that's a different subject.

I don't like bad opinion show hosts even if they agree with me. I want some solid arguments and I want them to let their "opponents" speak. Michael Medved was an expert at that. He just let them drone on and on, digging the hole deeper and deeper. And when they were done he just filled the hole with them at the bottom. He actually moved those that disagreed with him to the head of the caller line.

 

[Direct Driver]

It is impossible
to be an informed, honest creationist.

Opinions vary. Thanks muchly for sharing yours.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, "fetus" as a term came first.

No, it didn't.

According to the online etymological dictionary, "fetus" showed up in the late 14th century.

However, note what Solomon says:

Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

 

[Speedwell]

No, it didn't.

According to the online etymological dictionary, "fetus" showed up in the late 14th century.

In what language?

 

[Astrid]

Except that it really isn't an analogy - the key concept isn't common to both.

It's not a problem; evolution theory begins after the origin of life - it makes no difference whether the first living things were made by gods, aliens, magic, or plain old chemistry. The ToE explains what happens given simple organisms that reproduce with heritable variation.

Kinda like the origin of the universe is not really a
consideration in chemistry or auto mechanics.