Creationists attack academic freedom

[lucaspa]

The NY Times has a story today showing how creationists are willing to intrude on the freedom of a professor to write honest letters of recommendation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/03/education/03PROF.html?tntemail1

An associate professor of biology at Texas Tech in Lubbock, TX, posted on his webpage that he would not write a letter of recommendation for any student to grad school or med school unless that student accepted the evolution of humans.  His reasons, posted at the website, were simple: any student that refused to accept the evidence was not qualified to pursue studies in fields dependent on biology.

A creationist student, who has not even asked for a letter of recommendation, has complained and there is now a Justice Dept. probe of the professor for "discrimination".

Creationists are threatening to sue.  Apparently, they feel they can compel a professor to write a favorable letter of recommendation and dictate his opinions on the competency of students.

So, the professor, by being honest and posting his standards publicly so that students who won't accept evolution can seek other letters of recommendation from professors more friendly to their views, is now to be persecuted for that honesty.

 

[nephilimiyr]

And we all know how highly the NY Times think of creationists!

Linking a story from the National Enquirer will gain much more credibility.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Here's a link to the story from the University's newspaper:
http://www.universitydaily.net/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/10/24/3db7603f379cc

Also from the Houston Chronicle:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/1757158

Or how about this one:

Texas Tech University Discrimination- LLI is representing a student who was denied a letter of recommendation by a professor because of his Christian beliefs. The professor even posts his discriminatory policy on a website hosted by Texas Tech and paid for by tax dollars. The professor requires all students receiving a letter of recommendation to affirm a personal belief in evolution.

From http://www.libertylegal.org/cases.htm (the organization suing the professor)...

Credible now?

 

[RufusAtticus]

Neph,

You should probably take your foot out of your mouth.

Here are some AP stories on it. AP1 AP2

Here is a story on it from October which started the whole mess, by completely not understanding the professors requirements.

Here is the prof page that deals with letters of recomendation, note the differences from how LubbokOnline portrays it.

Here is my version of the Original Story

Professor rigid on the cause of disease

Tommy Totone was OK with learning that germs cause disease in college, but his family drew the line when his belief in the theory became a prerequisite for continuing his education.

Jim Totone said his son left Lubbock State this semester and enrolled in Lubbock College for Jesus after encountering the policy of one associate professor in biological sciences.

Professor James Buffet's Web site states that a student must "truthfully and forth rightly" believe that germs cause disease to receive a letter of recommendation from him.

"How can someone who does not accept the most important theory in medicine expect to properly practice medicine?" Buffet's site reads.

Buffet says on the site that it is easy to imagine how physicians who ignore or neglect the "germs cause disease can make bad clinical decisions." . . .

Jim Totone, who owns The Brace Place, said his son wanted to follow in his footsteps and needed a letter from a biology professor to apply for a program at Southwestern University's medical school.

Totone is not the only medical professional in Lubbock shocked by Buffet's policy. Doctors Pat Boone and Marvin Gaye said they learned that germs cause disease in college but were never forced to believe it.

"I learned what they taught," Boone said. "I had to. I wanted to make good grades, but it didn't change my basic beliefs."

Gaye said his primary problem is Buffet "trying to force someone to pledge allegiance to his way of thinking." . . .

Buffet is in a position of authority and "can injure someone's career," and the criteria is the "most prejudice thing I have ever read," Gaye said.

"It is appalling," he said.

Both doctors said their beliefs that demonic possession cause disease have never negatively affected their practices, and Gaye said he is a more compassionate doctor because of his beliefs.

"I do not believe the germs have anything to do with the ability to make clinical decisions — pro or con," Gaye said.

Academic freedom should be extended to students, Boone said.

Buffet's site states that an individual who denies the evidence commits malpractice in the method of science because "good scientists would never throw out data that do not conform to their expectations or beliefs."

People throw out information be cause "it seems to contradict his/her cherished beliefs," Buffet's site reads. A physician who ignores data cannot remain a physician for long, it states.

Buffet's site lists him as an exceptional faculty member at Lubbock State in 1995 and says he was named "Teacher of the Year" in 1998-99 by the Honors College at Lubbock State.

Boone said he does not see any evidence on Buffet's vita that he attended medical school or treated patients.

"Dr. Buffet is a nonmedical person trying to impose his ideas on medicine," Boone said. "There is little in common between teaching biology classes and treating sick people. ...

How dare someone who has never treated a sick person purport to impose his feelings about germs causing disease on someone who aspires to treat such people?"

On his Web site, Buffet questions how someone who does not believe that germs cause disease can ask to be recommended into a scientific profession by a professional scientist.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by Jerry Smith
From http://www.libertylegal.org/cases.htm (the organization suing the professor)...

From that site:

"The professor requires all students receiving a letter of recommendation to affirm a personal belief in evolution."

Versus the professor's page:

"If you set up an appointment to discuss the writing of a letter of recommendation, I will ask you: "How do you think the human species originated?" If you cannot truthfully and forthrightly affirm a scientific answer to this question, then you should not seek my recommendation for admittance to further education in the biomedical sciences." - source

In fact, I don't see the term "personal belief" anywhere on his site regarding recommendations.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Thanx Jerry,

From http://www.libertylegal.org/cases.htm:

Texas Tech University Discrimination- LLI is representing a student who was denied a letter of recommendation by a professor because of his Christian beliefs. The professor even posts his discriminatory policy on a website hosted by Texas Tech and paid for by tax dollars. The professor requires all students receiving a letter of recommendation to affirm a personal belief in evolution.

You'd think that a Christian organization would be above lying. . . . The fact is that the student never even asked Dr. Dini, who is a devout Catholic might I add, to give him a letter of recomendation. How can Liberty Legal claim to that he was denied something he never even asked for? Furthermore, Spradling didn't even need a letter from Dini to get into Med School (which is still three or four years away for him). There are 38 other faculty members which could give him one.

Spradling sat in on two session of Dini's intorductory biology class and then dropped out of school because he didn't want to learn about evolution. He was only allowed to register for LCU after he made up this story about being discriminated against.

 

[Morat]

I found this delightful:

Our perspective is not that of an academic, an ethicist, a philospher, a scientist or a cleric. We view this from the perspective of a litigator.

Litigating over an issue as trivial as a letter of recommendation is absurd. The money spent by Texas Tech paying lawyers to defend Dr. Dini’s letter of recommendation policy would be better spent improving the biology department of Texas Tech. The money Dr. Dini does not spend on litigation could fund a trip to the Galapogos Islands to study the length of bird beaks.


The letter might read something like this:



Dear Sir or Madam:

I understand that Micah Spradling has applied to your fine institution in an effort to further his training in the biological sciences. I have been asked to write this letter by Mr. Spradling.


I know Mr. Spadling fairly well as he has taken lower level and upper level courses from me. I have also met with him in my office to discuss matters of biology.


In our meetings, the issue of the origin of the human species arose. Despite four years of training in the biological sciences, Mr. Spradling was unable to truthfully and forthrightly affirm a scientific answer to that question.


As a result of that inability, I declined to write a letter of recommendation for Mr. Spradling. When I declined, Mr. Spradling sued me as well as Texas Tech.


This letter is written under the terms of the settlement of that suit and you should regard it as such.


If you seek litigious students who, after four years of training in biology, are unable to state a scientific basis for the origin of the human species, then Mr. Spradling would be a fine addition to your program.


Sincerely Yours



We cannot expect professors to do more than provide truthful letters that contain an honest assessment of a student. The above letter is both.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neph,

You should probably take your foot out of your mouth.

Here are some AP stories on it. target=_blank>AP1 target=_blank>AP2

target=_blank>Here is a story on it from October which started the whole mess, by completely not understanding the professors requirements.

target=_blank>Here is the prof page that deals with letters of recomendation, note the differences from how LubbokOnline portrays it.

Here is my version of the Original Story

WOW! Such animosity Rufus, am I that much of an adversary to you? 5 links, gee do you have anymore?

The opinion in my post was directed toward the NY Times not you or your opinions!

 

[RufusAtticus]

I only count four links.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by nephilimiyr
WOW! Such animosity Rufus, am I that much of an adversary to you? 5 links, gee do you have anymore?

The opinion in my post was directed toward the NY Times not you or your opinions!

And yet, it was used as a way to dismiss the original claims; now that you know it's not an NY Times claim, but a fairly well-researched fact, I will assume that you're accepting the original claim.

 

[lithium.]

Originally posted by lucaspa
The NY Times has a story today showing how creationists are willing to intrude on the freedom of a professor to write honest letters of recommendation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/03/education/03PROF.html?tntemail1

An associate professor of biology at Texas Tech in Lubbock, TX, posted on his webpage that he would not write a letter of recommendation for any student to grad school or med school unless that student accepted the evolution of humans.  His reasons, posted at the website, were simple: any student that refused to accept the evidence was not qualified to pursue studies in fields dependent on biology.

A creationist student, who has not even asked for a letter of recommendation, has complained and there is now a Justice Dept. probe of the professor for "discrimination".

Creationists are threatening to sue.  Apparently, they feel they can compel a professor to write a favorable letter of recommendation and dictate his opinions on the competency of students.

So, the professor, by being honest and posting his standards publicly so that students who won't accept evolution can seek other letters of recommendation from professors more friendly to their views, is now to be persecuted for that honesty.

That is really crazy.

 

[Arikay]

Why didnt I think of it before. Im sitting on a gold mine here. I have scripture suggesting that the earth is flat. Any teacher that says I cant graduate until I say that that for a fact the earth is round, I will sue for infringing on my rights to believe the christian religion.
Hmm, I wonder what I can do with all that money I get from them?

 

[nephilimiyr]

And yet, it was used as a way to dismiss the original claims; now that you know it's not an NY Times claim, but a fairly well-researched fact, I will assume that you're accepting the original claim.

Yes I used it as a way to dismiss the claim as being the whole true story. I suppose with all the other NUMEROUS sourses provided latter there probably is validity to the story.

Should I take it that you never dismissed a story from a sourse you didn't think reputable.

 

[lucaspa]

Originally posted by nephilimiyr
WOW! Such animosity Rufus, am I that much of an adversary to you? 5 links, gee do you have anymore?

The opinion in my post was directed toward the NY Times not you or your opinions!

I beg to differ. Your post was "And we all know how highly the NY Times think of creationists!

Linking a story from the National Enquirer will gain much more credibility."

It was also directed at me for posting a link with such low "credibility" as the NY Times.

Basically, Neph, instead of trying to deal with the issues you performed an ostrich and decided I had posted a fraud. 

Thanks, Rufus, for showing Neph that the story was not a fraud.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Here is the professor's autobiography.

I instead chose to enter a Roman Catholic order of teaching brothers (the Brothers of the Christian Schools, known in the U.S. simply as the Christian Brothers). As a young brother, I majored in biology and minored in religious studies at St. Mary's College, Moraga, California. I graduated magna cum laude in 1977 and was assigned by my religious superiors to teach at La Salle High School in Pasadena, California, where I remained for 4 years, teaching various courses in biology and religion and earning a California Secondary Teaching Credential.

 

[lucaspa]

Originally posted by Morat
I found this delightful:

LOL!

What a delightful letter of recommendation!  Yep, that is about what I would write for that student, and all future students,  were I Dr. Dini and lose the lawsuit.  Really impressive recommendation, isn't it? I'm sure Mr. Spradling will get into a lot of medical schools with that recommendation.  (let's see, where is that tongue-in-cheek smiley?)

 

[lucaspa]

Originally posted by nephilimiyr
Should I take it that you never dismissed a story from a sourse you didn't think reputable.

I have been very skeptical of stories from sources that repeatedly have shown themselves to print false stories, i.e. the National Enquirer and the ICR.  However, I have never totally dismissed one without at least looking at it to see for myself.

This is quite embarrassing to you, isn't it Neph?  It shows creationists in their true light and doesn't allow you to gloss over their tyrannical agenda.  Do you really want to live in a society where the government can dictate to you what your professional opinion is about a colleague and that colleague's competence?  Let creationists gain political power and that is exactly what you get.

Dini laid out very honestly what his criteria for a letter of recommendation is, and why, professionally, acceptance of evolution as a valid scientific theory was so important.  The potential medical student cannot offer his/her patients adequate medical care without it.  Are you so wedded to creationism that you are willing to tolerate incompetent medical care?

 

[joelazcr]

If evolution is so important to medical care, why don't the medical
school's teach it. It's not that they are unaware of evolution, it's just
that it is useless for medical care.

Does this mean that everything else being equal, a creationist in the
medical profession is less compentent than a non creationist?

How does natural selection and large scale evolution benefit medical
care anyway? Does anyone have any examples?

Medicine was doing fine before Darwin. What great advances occurred
because of the evolutionary thinking? Aren't humans beyond the reach
of natural selection anyway?

 

[notto]

Originally posted by joelazcr

Medicine was doing fine before Darwin. What great advances occurred
because of the evolutionary thinking? Aren't humans beyond the reach
of natural selection anyway?

Are you suggesting that medicine hasn't improved in 125 years?

Antibiotic resistance (and how to deal with it) only makes sense in light of evolution.

Using certain animals more medical research only makes sense in light of evolution.

A cure for AIDS will most likely be directly linked to evolution, either of immunity in a human, or by understanding the evolution of the virus.

As far as medical schools, you do realize that medical school requirements require ALOT of biology, right?

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

If a professor believes that a "scientific explaination for the origin of human beings" is important for medical students, it is his perogative. If that is his belief, it is foolish of Mr. Spradling to ask a recommendation from him. Forcing him to write a recommendation is even more foolish because nobody will give a good recommendation under coersion. Does Mr. Spradling think that medical schools want students who need to resort to legal action to get recommendations?