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Creationist Resources?

nolidad

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The main problem with arguing with people about "evolution", a mere theory -- a point of view even, in that Genesis 1 literally true can appear as if evolution even, which is only a small thing in a way, and even a distraction (we are to listen instead of analysing) -- the problem with arguing about evolution is that that will not save them, will not give them a chance to be saved, because it is not the saving Good News, the Gospel.

It is true showing someone that evolution is scientifically false will not save them, but at times people need to see that what buttresses their belief system is not the answer in order to look for another.

And many evolutionists will tell you that evolution is no small thing in teh spiritual warfare that they do nto even know they are engaged in!

So let me ask you again- where do you draw the line? where will you say "I am sorry but that is not the bible."?

Evolution isn't ages old earth is not, a metaphorical flood is not, Babel is not, Jesus walking on water is not!

How do you defend literal truths when you are willing to allow people to reject other literal truths?
 
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nolidad

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Good post Halbhh. I used to debate creation v evolution about 20 years ago online, but all it ended in was people getting angry. One of the main reasons I became a Christian was when I realised that the world was (to me) only 6000 years old and that made the whole world much more exciting. Evolution seemed to make God a rather uncaring distant figure. So when I first was converted I used to fight my corner and say how a recent creation was the way it happened. Now I acknowledge that actually it's much more important to talk about the Gospel before anything else!


Much as I do also- when you go in front of atheistic scientists who mock the gospel, you need to plant seeds of doubt in their minds.

Just me believing in YEC is great. But it won't do much indefending the faith. When someone is willing to reect so much of the foundations of beginnings- They generally also simply reject the gospel.


Defending YEC is one of many tools a believer should have available to help present the gospel!
 
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RageOfAngels

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I found the biological decay curve of the patriarchs quite fascinating, which helps to show genetic degeneration. Not that I really understand these things as well as I should, but I found the graphs very eye-opening.

That's what I tend to do now. I look for evidence to help my belief, and find it all over the place. But I don't open it up for debate for I know what happens! Voices get louder, and everyone gets mad! ;)
 
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nolidad

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I found the biological decay curve of the patriarchs quite fascinating, which helps to show genetic degeneration. Not that I really understand these things as well as I should, but I found the graphs very eye-opening.

That's what I tend to do now. I look for evidence to help my belief, and find it all over the place. But I don't open it up for debate for I know what happens! Voices get louder, and everyone gets mad! ;)


Yeah! After the flood when that protective water was removed- the destructive rays of the sun were able to penetrate and life spans dropped dramatically!
 
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trophy33

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Yeah! After the flood when that protective water was removed- the destructive rays of the sun were able to penetrate and life spans dropped dramatically!
Another pure fantasy the YEC proponents must invent for their way of reading the Bible to work...

Also, its not biblical, because its said in Psalm that waters above the firmanent are still there.
 
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nolidad

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Another pure fantasy the YEC proponents must invent for their way of reading the Bible to work...

Also, its not biblical, because its said in Psalm that waters above the firmanent are still there.


Well I would like to know which Psalm you are referring to. the only possible is Psalm 104 and in context it cannot be heavenly waters.

As for the decrease in age- no that is actual science!

A translucent barrier and X amount of water in the atmosphere would effectively block over 95% of the harmful rays the electromagnetic shield lets through. Thus reducing cancers, mutations, and slow the aging process.

All you need do is look at the large decrease in ages from after the flood.

https://www.[bless and do not curse...t-life-span-patriarchs-from-adam-to-noah.html

What is the difference from before Shem and after? The flood!
 
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Halbhh

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where will you say "I am sorry but that is not the bible."?
Actually with believers I usually try to point out when their idea is contradicted by other scriptures or simply a theory instead of scripture, and that latter is actually why I'm in this discussion, as in earlier posts above, pointing out that presuming little or no time passed in Gen 1:1 is an assumption, not scripture.

When we have an idea that isn't scripture but instead a way of interpreting scripture and using certain assumptions, it might be ok, so long as we make clear to the people we are talking with it's only our own personal idea, though many other people have that same idea.

But if we assert our assumptions or extra ideas -- for instance the idea little or no time passed during verse 1 -- as being the Truth, when they are in fact our own ideas, that's "adding to scripture".

If we say, "My view is that ____" or any similar wording that clearly shows it's just one viewpoint among various Christian viewpoints (of real believers who take the Bible as fully true), then it doesn't have that wrong of adding (our own assumptions) to scripture.

Generally though people that preached young Earth haven't been aware they are adding a big assumption, even though they are, so I don't think they will be held to account for what they were unaware of, as we are accountable for the real contents of our hearts, not for mere honestly mistaken ideas.

But the larger problem of blocking the lost who are in some manner (some of them) interested in God enough to be in discussions with arguments about evolution is a very serious problem, which Paul showed us a better example, and also told us to be respectable, which sometimes means self-sacrifice (1rst Corinthians chapter 8) for the sake of those weaker than ourselves. In other words, you are accountable for if you block some lost seeker over the internet what what appears to that seeker false and has nothing in it of the saving gospel.
 
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Halbhh

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Much as I do also- when you go in front of atheistic scientists who mock the gospel, you need to plant seeds of doubt in their minds.

Please read this entire chapter:
Mark 4 NIV

That's the "seed" they need. The only one that can save.

God's existence doesn't depend on the Earth being a certain age, or under 10,000 years. God is more able, more wondrous, more than that.

If you convince lost people that God can only exist if the Earth is 10,000 or less years old, you are helping them at all, and may block some entirely. And for what? For a favorite pet issue, actually. A personal indulgence. 1rst Corinthians chapter 8.
 
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trophy33

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Well I would like to know which Psalm you are referring to. the only possible is Psalm 104 and in context it cannot be heavenly waters.
"Praise Him, highest heavens, And the waters that are above the heavens!"
Ps 148:4
 
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Halbhh

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"Praise Him, highest heavens, And the waters that are above the heavens!"
Ps 148:4

You know, it's very interesting to me I was reading the other day that --

"A new experiment confirms the existence of “superionic ice,” a bizarre form of water that might comprise the bulk of giant icy planets throughout the universe."
Black, Hot Ice May Be Nature’s Most Common Form of Water

Water (in many ice forms) seems likely to be much more abundant then around stars than we might have guessed in the past. The quantities are truly gigantic here.
 
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trophy33

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You know, it's very interesting to me I was reading the other day that --

"A new experiment confirms the existence of “superionic ice,” a bizarre form of water that might comprise the bulk of giant icy planets throughout the universe."
Black, Hot Ice May Be Nature’s Most Common Form of Water

Water (in many ice forms) seems likely to be much more abundant then around stars than we might have guessed in the past. The quantities are truly gigantic here.
You can be pretty sure that David did not have any superionic ice discovered in the 21st century experiment in mind while writing this song. :)
 
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RageOfAngels

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Another pure fantasy the YEC proponents must invent for their way of reading the Bible to work...

Also, its not biblical, because its said in Psalm that waters above the firmanent are still there.

Case in point as to why I don't debate anymore!
 
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nolidad

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"Praise Him, highest heavens, And the waters that are above the heavens!"
Ps 148:4


Well let us look at the verses.

48 Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights.

2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Will you now accept God created 2 heavens now? Praise him form the HEAVENS!
HEAVENS OF HEAVENS!
Now verse 4: waters above the heavens PLURAL!

Verse 1 God created a heaven

Verses 7&8 God created another heaven that divided the water. One heaven here divided the water.
Heavens plural in Psalm 148 are beneath waters.

See I pay attention to s' at the end of words that pluralize a noun and then accept it as written!

But are there water above the atmosphere and space? Astronomy has proven massive ice fields in space!

And Rev. 22 speaks of a river in heaven. So I do not dispute the Word as written!
 
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nolidad

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You can be pretty sure that David did not have any superionic ice discovered in the 21st century experiment in mind while writing this song. :)


Why do you limit the inspired writers of Scripture? I am positive King David did not know of many of the things He wrote! But God did and put them in His Word! ! Peter says the prophets of old did not know all they wrote but were curious as to what time. Same with the angels. Dasniel wrote many things that were sealed until the end times!

I am sure Adam and then Seth and so on did not know much of what they were writing. Just because they did not have the words we have made up to describe things- did not make them wrong at all. Just words available to them.
 
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nolidad

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Case in point as to why I don't debate anymore!

Well I discuss not so much debate, especially when folks leave out so much of Scripture that shows where they lack ini undersatanding why a oung earth is the only biblical answer to what is written.
 
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trophy33

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Why do you limit the inspired writers of Scripture? I am positive King David did not know of many of the things He wrote!

Because there is no reason for God inspiring the old texts in the way that original authors and contemporary readers for thousands years would not understand it, only you, finding some scientific experiment in the year 2019.
 
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trophy33

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But are there water above the atmosphere and space? Astronomy has proven massive ice fields in space!

And Rev. 22 speaks of a river in heaven. So I do not dispute the Word as written!
Why do you try to read the Bible in such a wrong and bizarre way, instead of learning something about the culture it was written in?
 
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nolidad

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Why do you try to read the Bible in such a wrong and bizarre way, instead of learning something about the culture it was written in?

Because god who inspired the writers to write this is not bound by culture!

That is a line that has been used to justify open gays int eh church, women pastors, multiple paths of salvation, amongst other things.

Either Gods Word is for all time (unless in context god limited it)

Why should you doubt that the City of God has a river?
 
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nolidad

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Because there is no reason for God inspiring the old texts in the way that original authors and contemporary readers for thousands years would not understand it, only you, finding some scientific experiment in the year 2019.


but yet many passages were not understood by the authors. David did not know he wrote many prophecies of Jesus. Neither did the prophets. Daniel did not understand all his prophetic passages-God even said they were sealed!

The Jews until the 19th century were almost universally young earthers (except the more mystic sects).

They did not understand science as we understand it!

Jeremiah and Job both knew the earth was a sphere! Job spoke of the precipitation cycle long before science understood it!

Running water is better to clean than still water- but it took science a long time to know what Job knew! He didn't know about bacteria- he didn't have to!
 
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