Creationist Resources?

[trophy33]

Ah the secret number codes.

Well I did a class on biblical numerology.
6=man
7=com[letion
40=judgment
etc.etc.

These were because of how God arranged things and not some made up stories by the Jews or early church!

"Made up stories" is a modern, scientific and skeptic attitude. Ancient people loved stories and took them as binding, from Greek through Romans to Jews.

 

[trophy33]

Well when I have an hour free I will watch the video. Other wise I have three books on culture.

Sure, its long. When you will have time.

 

[trophy33]

Actually it landed on the mountains of ararat the region, not a specified mountain.

Still quite close if the Flood was planetary.

 

[nolidad]

"Made up stories" is a modern, scientific and skeptic attitude. Ancient people loved stories and took them as binding, from Greek through Romans to Jews.

Well you seem to be all over the board on Noah.
People did when they could have fled
40 days of rain which could be symbolic
But mountains covered in a dual open ended valley
God making Noah spend 120 years building a pocket size battleship, when it really wasn't physically needed.

All flesh on the face of the earth only means some flesh in the Mesopotamian Valley

All life under the whole heavens only meant life under the Mesopotamian skies

Noah knew there was life beyond Mesopotamia and skies and lands beyond Mesopotamia and he head great words
god could have had him use if he wanted to specifically convey just the area whee Noah lived!

 

[nolidad]

Still quite close if the Flood was planetary.

Yes it would have been nearby we assume, or, if we take early writings on teh subject, the Ark could have landed over 1100 miles from where it ouwld have started.

 

[nolidad]

Sure, its long. When you will have time.

Well I will watch part of it today as I had an early day from work

 

[trophy33]

Yes it would have been nearby we assume, or, if we take early writings on teh subject, the Ark could have landed over 1100 miles from where it ouwld have started.

But you agree that Noah started in the Middle East, then, according to you, planet-wide wild waters came for many days and after the waters receded, the ark ended up in .... the Middle East, right?

 

[trophy33]

Well you seem to be all over the board on Noah.
People did when they could have fled
40 days of rain which could be symbolic
But mountains covered in a dual open ended valley
God making Noah spend 120 years building a pocket size battleship, when it really wasn't physically needed.

All flesh on the face of the earth only means some flesh in the Mesopotamian Valley

All life under the whole heavens only meant life under the Mesopotamian skies

Noah knew there was life beyond Mesopotamia and skies and lands beyond Mesopotamia and he head great words
god could have had him use if he wanted to specifically convey just the area whee Noah lived!

I think that Noah's Flood happened, but locally and that the story of Noah in the Bible has obvious Jewish symbolism incorporated in it.

 

[nolidad]

Well I have taken the time!

Lot of good history! However he makes culture more powerful than God! After Babel- people scattered and yes they served other gods like they did before the flood, But he strongly implies that the knowledge of God was somehow lost!

That is not true.

If you notice that Shem's lineage was written twice! In Chapter 10 and again IN 11. that is bercause it is focusing on the line God chooses.

Ancient Rabbinic Writings say that in Abrahams line true worship had been kept.

Even his use of Joshua 24 is misleading! Rabbinic scholars say that by isolating Terah and Abraham- they are excluding them from idol worship, though somer say just Abraham.

To listen to this teacher, one would conclude that some time after the flood- the knowledge of God was lost and God reintroduced Himself to Abraham.

If Abraham were a typical pagan worshiper of his day- there would have to be compelling ervidence for him to leave his household god, his clan god and his tribal or city god. Unless of course Abram still worshipped the true God.

 

[nolidad]

I think that Noah's Flood happened, but locally and that the story of Noah in the Bible has obvious Jewish symbolism incorporated in it.

Well your thinking has lots of impossibilities in it! It requires more miracles than we have in the bible!

Well as Noah happened before Israel and even though edited by Moses- they had not had time to establish anykind of Jewish symbolism to that point! If it was written say 400 B.C. when lots of mystic crud had crept in to Judaism, I would agree with you! But Moses had finished editing Genesis long long before Israel had even set up anypseudapigrapha.

 

[nolidad]

But you agree that Noah started in the Middle East, then, according to you, planet-wide wild waters came for many days and after the waters receded, the ark ended up in .... the Middle East, right?

No reason to think that He did not start somewhere in the ME region.

 

[trophy33]

No reason to think that He did not start somewhere in the ME region.

My point is, that the story says it was local, because its not probable that in a wild global cataclysm he would land so close to where he started, in the same region.

 

[trophy33]

Well your thinking has lots of impossibilities in it! It requires more miracles than we have in the bible!

What miracles?

Well as Noah happened before Israel and even though edited by Moses- they had not had time to establish anykind of Jewish symbolism to that point! If it was written say 400 B.C. when lots of mystic crud had crept in to Judaism, I would agree with you! But Moses had finished editing Genesis long long before Israel had even set up anypseudapigrapha.

The story is not written by Noah.

 

[nolidad]

My point is, that the story says it was local, because its not probable that in a wild global cataclysm he would land so close to where he started, in the same region.

So you are basing it on the laws of probability??? WOW!

Maybe you should do some research on flood currents and barges and how they will not trqavel great distances.

 

[nolidad]

What miracles?


The story is not written by Noah.

Take that up with God Noah wrote His accounts just like Adam His and god dictated to Adam the account of creation.

When you see the word toledah (generations) it is accepted Hebrew that it is a biography of lineage.

Once again Moses was the editor not the author of Genesis.

 

[nolidad]

What miracles?


The story is not written by Noah.

What miracles?

1. Water rising above the highest hills by 21.5 feet (15 cubits) and not spill over out of teh Mesopotamian Valley.

2. a Deluge in a two open ended valley but yet stayed in that valley somehow.

3. Animals resisitng their divine given instinct and staying in a valley with clear danger so they all would perish, birds as well.

4. People just simply not leaving an open valley to dryer ground.

5. The water rising in teh valley without pouring out the 2 open ends for 150 days.

6. The flood event lasting almost a year without the open ends of the valley just keeping the water from
.pouring out!

7. The tower of Babel becomes superfluous. It says the descendants of Shem ham and Japheth hung out together! Why would God divide them to create teh nations if there were already other nations outside the Mesopotamian Valley!

Lots of Miracles and defiance of proven science in your tale.

 

[trophy33]

What miracles?

1. Water rising above the highest hills by 21.5 feet (15 cubits) and not spill over out of teh Mesopotamian Valley.

2. a Deluge in a two open ended valley but yet stayed in that valley somehow.

3. Animals resisitng their divine given instinct and staying in a valley with clear danger so they all would perish, birds as well.

4. People just simply not leaving an open valley to dryer ground.

5. The water rising in teh valley without pouring out the 2 open ends for 150 days.

6. The flood event lasting almost a year without the open ends of the valley just keeping the water from
.pouring out!

7. The tower of Babel becomes superfluous. It says the descendants of Shem ham and Japheth hung out together! Why would God divide them to create teh nations if there were already other nations outside the Mesopotamian Valley!

Lots of Miracles and defiance of proven science in your tale.

Its interesting, that these things you do not accept because it would have to be "miraculous", but the impossible global flood is OK :d

 

[trophy33]

Take that up with God Noah wrote His accounts just like Adam His and god dictated to Adam the account of creation.

This is just a fantasy, no evidence.

When you see the word toledah (generations) it is accepted Hebrew that it is a biography of lineage.

And these lineages were more for social purposes, not technical.

Once again Moses was the editor not the author of Genesis.

Actually, most scholars think that Genesis was written in Babylon, so not even by Moses. To say it was written at least partially by Moses is the most conservative scholarship. Not to even say it was written by Adam, Noah...

 

[nolidad]

This is just a fantasy, no evidence.


And these lineages were more for social purposes, not technical.


Actually, most scholars thing that Genesis was written in Babylon, so not even by Moses. To say it was written at least partially by Moses is the most conservative scholarship. Not to even say it was written by Adam, Noah...

Well those scholars sane people use as dung for fuel! I trust very few of our modern scholars out of traditional schools. for the reasons you should know. You do know what PHD stands for today right? Piled Higher and Deeper! LOL

Those lineages were for historical as well as social purposes. as for technical, without knowing what you specifically jmean in this instance, I cannot answer.

 

[nolidad]

Its interesting, that these things you do not accept because it would have to be "miraculous", but the impossible global flood is OK :d

Actually I was convinced of a global flood as the Bible in its normal writing says, by the geologicasl evidnce of what to expect if a flood hit the whole earth!

And I am surprised you would hypothesize amazing miracles than just look at the text and see that God had more than enough water available to destroy th eland mass.

Everything of the flood can be explained easily by geology, meteorology and paleantology. Fewer and less hollywood style miracles are nee3ded for the biblical account than for the myst account.