Creationism

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Follower of Christ

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Today at 12:12 AM chickenman said this in Post #15

until some function is found for the broken urate oxidase pseudogene, then creationism doesn't deserve consideration



After looking a little more into this (secular sites). I am dumbfounded as to how this would prove evolution over creation.

Am i understanding you correctly that I am to drop everything I believe in and have been convinced of because this gene doesnt have a known function?

Am I supposed to forget my faith because there are some similar non-functioning genes in man and chimps(?) ?

I have a much bigger problem with the starlight issue than with this gene thing.

Please at least present a real issue before expecting me to drop my faith for it.
 
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fragmentsofdreams

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Today at 10:56 AM Follower of Christ said this in Post #25

Over the long haul, mutation could very well affect thier size, shape, color, etc., again.

I fail to see how Gods design for adaptability or even mutation would prove evolution, though.
They will adapt to thier environment if possible, but they remain rabbits.

Given enough adaptations, major changes will take place. A population of rabbits might through a series of adaptations become scavengers and then further adapt to catch small animals. A predator-bunny is conceivable but it would difficult to classify as the same as current rabbits.
 
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Follower of Christ

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Today at 06:26 AM wblastyn said this in Post #32

Just curious, why do creationists ignore all the evidence found in creation. Paul told us we could learn about God's nature from creation, why don't you trust him?


Correct me if I am wrong here, but you are FOR creation (albeit a long one) and Chickenman seems to be definetly against creation altogether.

So tell me how this particular gene thing that Chickenman presents as debunking creation period is accepted by you at all (as you seem to acknowledge a creation of sorts) seeing how in his presentation there is no creator at all.

Either this pseudogene issue negates the possibility of creation altogether or it doesnt.

If it does in your mind, then throw your bible (or give it to someone else)away and join the American Atheist Association.
If it doesnt, Then it can easily fit right into a 6 day creation.

So far I personally have seen nothing beyond Intelligent Design.

BTW, DO YOU even understand the implications of Intelligent Design.



And please give me the chapter and verse where Paul says to ignore the words of God and look to secular interpretation of Gods creation.
I eagerly await your response.




I will show you something the bible DOES say;

Jam 3:1 "My brothers do not be many teachers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment.''

&

2Pe 2:1 ''But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. ''
 
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wblastyn

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Correct me if I am wrong here, but you are FOR creation (albeit a long one) and Chickenman seems to be definetly against creation altogether.
I believe God creatyed everything, yes, but I believe He used evolution, the Big Bang, etc to do it.

BTW, DO YOU even understand the implications of Intelligent Design.
Bats with eyes isn't intelligent, humans with tails (in their genome) isn't intelligent, snakes with pelvises isn't intelligent, etc.

2Pe 2:1 ''But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. ''
Yes, we believe that you are a false prophet/teacher, or have been mislead by false prophets/teachers, and are teaching the heresy of creationism, and denying what the Master planted in creation, bringing swift destruction on yourselves and anyone else who believes you have to accept creationism to be a Christian.




I assume Chickenman is a Christian since he's posting here, so he'd probably only be against creationism, not creation.
 
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Follower of Christ

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"......denying what the Master planted in creation, bringing swift destruction on yourselves and anyone else who believes you have to accept creationism to be a Christian."




Then, as of now, seeing that your ''teaching'' is heresy against the very inspired word of our Lord and Gods account of His creation, I would have to label YOU as a heretic and deceiver.

And also a fool who thinks that he can add to our Lords word against Gods direct commandment and then escape his own destruction.


"After the first and second warning, avoid a man of heresy, knowing that such a one has been perverted and sins, being self-condemned. ''
(Titus 3:10-11 LITV)


This conversation is finished.

 
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wblastyn

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Then, as of now, seeing that your ''teaching'' is heresy against the very inspired word of our Lord and Gods account of His creation, I would have to label YOU as a heretic and deceiver.

And also a fool who thinks that he can add to our Lords word against Gods direct commandment and then escape his own destruction.
Actually it's not against Genesis since it was never intended to be taken literally in the first place.&nbsp; Augustine would agree as would many theologians today.&nbsp; So if any one is preaching heresy it would be you.&nbsp;

Why do you ignore what we see in creation?

Lol quoting scripture to justify your running away.
 
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wblastyn

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Here is the history of creationism:

http://www.kmatthews.org.uk/cult_archaeology/creationism_2.html

George McCready Price, a Seventh-Day Adventist science teacher who received a BA from Loma Linda College in 1912, for many years taught college level Latin, Greek, chemistry and physics. He wrote about 25 books that were published from 1902 to 1955, and most of them have sold very well (Morris, 1984, p. 80).He was probably one of the foremost expounders of the dual ideas that all life had been created only 6,000 to 10,000 years ago, and that the flood was responsible for much of the fossil and geological record. He believed, both early and again later in his career, that the so-called young earth position is a peripheral issue:

The question of how much time was occupied in the work of Creation is of no importance, neither is the question of how long ago it took place. The one essential idea is that in its nature Creation is essentially inscrutable; we can never hope to know just how it was accomplished; we cannot expect to know the process or the details, for we have nothing with which to measure it. The one essential thing in the doctrine of Creation is that the origin of our world and of the things upon it came about at some period of time in the past by a direct and unusual manifestation of Divine power; and that since this original Creation other and different forces and powers have prevailed to sustain and perpetuate the forms of life and indeed the entire world as then called into existence (Price, 1917, p. 8).
From http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/CMBergman.html

Hmm, it's interesting that the modern creationist movement was started by a 7th day Adventist, aren't they considered a cult by mainstream Christianity?
 
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Follower of Christ

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wblastyn
"Bats with eyes isn't intelligent, humans with tails (in their genome) isn't intelligent, snakes with pelvises isn't intelligent, etc."


FOC:
This is a heretical as it gets.
Regardless of your supposed ''christianity'' you are denying creation altogether in this statement.
I wish for my Brethren to see the TRUE nature of the Evolution Theory in this remark.


wblastyn
".....and are teaching the heresy of creationism"



FOC:
''HERESY OF CREATIONISM''

And now we all see the REAL agenda of the Evolutionist Idealism.



wblastyn

"....and denying what the Master planted in creation...."



FOC:

''PLANTED IN CREATION''

Very nice interpretation.

It should be obvious to all your true intentions here.



wblastyn

"I assume Chickenman is a Christian since he's posting here"


FOC:

I have far too many times allowed myself to be drawn in by assuming people were Christians.

I can say I am president Bush, but that dont make it so.





wblastyn
"Hmm, it's interesting that the modern creationist movement was started by a 7th day Adventist, aren't they considered a cult by mainstream Christianity?"




FOC:

Where do you people get this stuff at?

The creation story was in the bible LOOOONG before all your ''cults'' came about.


And I have no need to ''run'', I have the EXACT word of God to rely on.

And guess what, I dont have to RE-INTERPRET it to get it to mean what I want it to say.


I really have to add this question to this post.

Did Dennis Mckinsey send you in here or did you come on your own?
 
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wblastyn

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FOC:
This is a heretical as it gets.
Regardless of your supposed ''christianity'' you are denying creation altogether in this statement.
I wish for my Brethren to see the TRUE nature of the Evolution Theory in this remark.
Do you have an intelligent reason for humans having the information in their tails in their genomes, plus genes suppressing the tail gene, bats and various other blind creatures with eyes,&nbsp;snakes&nbsp;with pelvises but no use for it since they have no&nbsp;legs, etc. The only intelligent reason I can see is evolution.

FOC:
''HERESY OF CREATIONISM''

And now we all see the REAL agenda of the Evolutionist Idealism.
Heresy is false teaching, creationism has been proven false by science, yet people continue to teach it as true, what would you call it?

What is "evolutionist idealism"?

FOC:

''PLANTED IN CREATION''

Very nice interpretation.

It should be obvious to all your true intentions here.
Well why is there all this evidence for the earth being ancient and evolution, God created everything (doesn't matter how), so He put the evidence there. God does not lie.

FOC:

I have far too many times allowed myself to be drawn in by assuming people were Christians.

I can say I am president Bush, but that dont make it so.
So now you're assuming the position of God? He alone can judge whether someone is Christian or not. We can tell if people are Christian by their fruits, accepting evolution has nothing to do with "fruits".&nbsp; I have seen no reason to assume he is not Christian

FOC:

Where do you people get this stuff at?

The creation story was in the bible LOOOONG before all your ''cults'' came about.
Yes, the creation story has been there, it was interpreted literally at first because they had nothing else to go on, just like they assumed the earth was flat and at the centre of the solar system from scripture, until science proved them wrong, then they accepted a non-literal interpretation, just like they did with verses implying an flat earth and geocentricism.

And I have no need to ''run'', I have the EXACT word of God to rely on.
Or what you think is His exact word.

And guess what, I dont have to RE-INTERPRET it to get it to mean what I want it to say.
Unless of course it was never intended to be interpreted literally in the first place, in which case you are re-interpreting it.&nbsp;

Did Dennis Mckinsey send you in here or did you come on your own?

buh?
 
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wblastyn

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the existence of mistakes in creation doesn't refute christianity

a christian can simply accept that god set the process of evolution in motion to produce life
I agree, I was just pointing out that if God zapped everything into existance then there should be no mistakes and intelligent design fails because the design has errors.
 
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Follower of Christ

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Here is the answer to your so called mistakes in creation.
See if you can figure it out.

"For we know that all the creation groans together and travails together until now. "
(Romans 8:22 LITV)




And you're right, GOD is the judge of who is a christian and who is not.


"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his....
(2 Timothy 2:19 KJV)



HE knows his followers and He knows Heretics who teach deceit.


''Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ''
(1 John 4:1 MKJV)



''Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits....''(Matthew 7:15-16 MKJV)



''But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their pernicious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be evil spoken of. ''
(2 Peter 2:1-2 MKJV)


''O Timothy, guard the Deposit, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of falsely-named science, which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen. ''
(1 Timothy 6:20-21 MKJV)
 
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LewisWildermuth

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Yesterday at 06:32 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #43


Here is the answer to your so called mistakes in creation.
See if you can figure it out.

"For we know that all the creation groans together and travails together until now. "
(Romans 8:22 LITV)


Most scientists will agree with this. The earth is groaning because humans have failed, just like the bible says, in our stewardship of the planet.

And you're right, GOD is the judge of who is a christian and who is not.


"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his....
(2 Timothy 2:19 KJV)

Well this is true... So why are creationists so afraid that science will bring it crashing down?

HE knows his followers and He knows Heretics who teach deceit.


''Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ''
(1 John 4:1 MKJV)

Also true, and creationism has been tested again and again and has failed every time...

''Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits....''(Matthew 7:15-16 MKJV)

Okay scientists (many of whom are Christians) have brought us cures for diseases, computers, weather prediction, earthquake and volcano prediction, a possible vaccination for AIDS, and much much more...

Pretty good list of fruits...

And "creation scientists" have brought us... Ummm... Well.... Nothing...

Now by judging the fruits who wins?

''But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their pernicious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be evil spoken of. ''
(2 Peter 2:1-2 MKJV)

And one could easily argue that it is the creationists that are the false prophets.

''O Timothy, guard the Deposit, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of falsely-named science, which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen. ''
(1 Timothy 6:20-21 MKJV)


Now besides the agreement of most biblical scholars that they were talking about Gnostics here, creationism can fit this bill even better than science.
 
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wblastyn

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Here is the answer to your so called mistakes in creation.
See if you can figure it out.

"For we know that all the creation groans together and travails together until now. "
(Romans 8:22 LITV)
Except these things are actually part of the design of the creature, it can't be explained by sin entering the world. Either God created creatures with these flaws or they are a product of evolution. I don't believe God makes errors, so I'd have to go with evolution.
 
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Follower of Christ

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Lewis:

You're presenting an old athiest word game.

I dont have to accept every ''theory'' that science tries to present on order to accept science.

Just as athiests can accept parts of the bible as historical fact, they dont accept the parts that conflict with thier ''faiths'' (evolution).
 
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Follower of Christ

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Evolution is the ''foundation'' of nothing.

It is the culmination of supposed ''evidence'' presented in the fields you mentioned.

I do not deny its power to convince.

You probably know my standpoint by now, that I am somewhat convinced that the evolution theory is a precursor the the "lie" or "delusion" and the falling away of the church mentioned in 2nd Thessalonians.

If this is the case, then by all means, the ''evidence'' would be VERY believable by those wishing for it to be so.

This type of ''blinding'' is very typical of Gods behavior in dealing with disobedience.

I am not trying to convince all that evolution is a lie.

I am trying to show my true brethren that they should tread very carefully over this issue
 
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wblastyn

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Evolution is the ''foundation'' of nothing.

Scientists who acually understand evolution beg to differ:

Evolution is one of the fundamental underlying concepts of modern science. This powerful theory explains such phenomena as the history of life preserved in the fossil record; the genetic, molecular, and physical similarities and differences among organisms; and the geographic distribution of organisms today and in the past. Indeed, evolution forms the foundation of modern biology and paleontology and&nbsp; is well documented by evidence from a variety of scientific disciplines.

From http://www.agiweb.org/news/evolution/foreword.html

This type of ''blinding'' is very typical of Gods behavior in dealing with disobedience.

I am not trying to convince all that evolution is a lie.

I am trying to show my true brethren that they should tread very carefully over this issue
So in other words you'll never accept it because any evidence we show you is obviously put there to deceive us.

The "true brethen" who accept evolution obviously know more about it than you do, so I think they should know if it is something to be careful of.

So all the Christians who accept evolution are being deceived by God for their disobedience?
 
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Follower of Christ

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"So all the Christians who accept evolution are being deceived by God for their disobedience?"




FOC:

If you would break you bible open to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2
you will see of a ''LIE'' or ''DELUSION'' and a ''falling away''


Do you suppose for an instant that the church as a whole will just decide to drop their ''religion'' one day for no apparent reason?

They would have to be decieved into believing something that would gradually take their eyes from the truth of Gods word in order for them to fall away as a group.


And again, I would like to thank you for pointing out how little I know of evolution.

Anytime someone disagrees with YOUR point of view, they are immediatly branded as unknowing.

Thats also a trick of many atheists.
It means squat.

If you're so sure I dont know enough, then please,
put your money where your yap is and enlighten me.
And meaningless conjecture/speculation will be ignored.
 
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LewisWildermuth

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Today at 07:10 AM Follower of Christ said this in Post #46

Lewis:

You're presenting an old athiest word game.

I dont have to accept every ''theory'' that science tries to present on order to accept science.

Just as athiests can accept parts of the bible as historical fact, they dont accept the parts that conflict with thier ''faiths'' (evolution).


Could you name a few of the theories that don't conflict with your interpretation of the Bible?

Again accepting the theory of evolution does not equate atheism... The founders of the theory were Christians and there are thousands of Christians working in the field every day.
 
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