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Creationism vs evolution theory

Evolution or creationism

  • Theory of creationism

  • Theory of evolution

  • A bit of both

  • Not sure or don't care


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ViaCrucis

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There is no such thing as a "theory of creationism". Within the Christian tradition "Creationism" has--and does--mean different things. None of which fit the definition of a scientific theory.

1) In antiquity the concept of "Creationism" referred to a view about ensoulment, that is, when one "received" a soul. Specifically Creationism was the view that the soul was created in the developing fetus in situ. This was in contrast to two other views, that the soul existed in some state or fashion prior to conception and was implanted into the fetus at some point during development, and the other that the soul was a product of the union of the parents--in a sense that the child's soul was received from the mother and father compositely. Creationism, in this sense, has been the dominant--if not the de facto--understanding of ensoulment in Christianity for most of history.

2) Creationism also refers to the theological proposition that all that exists is the result of a divine Creator; all that is is created. Most prominently a doctrine of Creatio ex nihilo--creation out from nothing. This is where things start to get complicated:

That all things were created by God is a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith, something it received from Judaism prior to it. Or at least fundamental tenet of the orthodox, catholic Christian faith, there were numerous Gnostic and semi-Gnostic sects that rejected that the universe was the product of a good creator God and instead argued that creation was a colossal mistake perpetrated by an either evil or otherwise ignorant god-lette. But as far as Christian orthodoxy is concerned that creation is good and the product of a good creator God is found in all of Christianity's classic confessional statements; e.g. the Apostles' Creed begins "We believe in one God the Father, Almighty Maker of the heavens and the earth."

That is a theological proposition that is independent of how we understand the material origins of the cosmos, no believing Christian is going to deny this theological proposition.

The doctrine of Creatio ex nihilo stems from at least a couple factors: First a definitive distinction between the Creator and the created, God as wholly other and therefore distinct from all created essences. All that is not God, therefore, is created by God; namely the cosmos. And all that is arose not out of a pre-existent material, but out from nothing. In St. Augustine's work, The Literal Interpretation of Genesis, he argues that all things were created in seminal form instantaneously and over time progressed toward a mature state; Augustine derives this interpretation from Sirach (a book he counted as Scripture just like modern Orthodox and Roman Catholics, but not found in most Protestant Bibles since the 1800s), specifically this passage:

"He that liveth for ever created all things together. God only shall be justified, and he remaineth an invincible king for ever." - Sirach 18:1 (Douay-Rheims)

(Side Note: Augustine was working with the Latin translation which had rendered the Greek of the LXX koine meaning "common" as the Latin simul as such he seems to have perhaps misunderstood the text here)

Today the term "Creationism" almost exclusively refers to what is known as Young Earth Creationism, a postulation that the earth, indeed the universe, are of recent age (under 10,000, usually reckoned to about 6,000 years ago). This view is predominant among modern Fundamentalists and Evangelicals, especially in the United States, but not all that long ago it was Old Earth Creationism which dominated the Fundamentalist landscape. In the famous Scopes Monkey Trial the prosecuting attorney William Jennings Bryan was, like most Fundamentalists at the time, Old Earth Creationists. The popularity of the Young Earth Creationist position among modern Fundamentalists can be attributed to a book written in the 1960's, The Genesis Flood.

As such "Creationism" almost always means Young Earth Creationism, if qualified it can also refer to Old Earth Creationism or to proponents of "Gap Theory".

So we really need to define "Creationism" here otherwise discussion is somewhat fruitless.

I don't believe in a "Theory of Creationism" since there is no such theory, there is no scientific theory known as "Creationism", every use of "Creationism"--at least within the Christian tradition--has referred to theology and/or certain faith-based views.

But as a matter of theology do I believe, as the Creed says, "in one God the Father, Almighty Maker of the heavens and the earth"? Yes, it is absolutely fundamental to my beliefs as a Christian that there is a God, He is the good Creator of all things. But that isn't a scientific position, it is a theological one, a religious position. And it says nothing about the how or when of the universe, or the earth, or the diversity of life.

The material origins of the universe seem to be pretty neatly explained by what is commonly known as the Big Bang Theory.

The origin of the planet earth is pretty neatly explained by an understanding of stellar genesis as our sun's solar disc resulted in the accretion of material to form planetoids which further were bound together by gravity until a nice sized chunk of hot rock we call the earth came to be.

Exactly how life first developed seems to largely be a matter of conjecture, though abiogenesis isn't a terrible explanation and is what I understand to be the best explanation so far.

Evolution, of course, has the most evidence of almost any theory in all of science. Evolution is more fully understood than something like gravity which still largely remains a mystery to us.

I think these natural explanations for the material origins of things fit the available evidence and therefore make the most sense. None of this contradicts my beliefs about a good creator God who made all things, having ordained all things to exist by His word and power.

So when I read Genesis 1:1 that "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" I believe that.

Science explains scientific things, Theology explains theological things. I neither have to choose between the two or try and force the two together in a weird way that mangles one, the other, or both.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Loudmouth

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Then again, whenever a creationist attacks/questions/denies evolution on the forums you'll often see a bunch of atheists suddenly jumping to "Biblical morality is evil/Jesus never existed/religion is nonsense" instead of actually sticking to the topic.

That is often in response to creationists changing the subject when they are asked to deal with the evidence.
 
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CabVet

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CABVET!

Welcome back, buddy!

Long time no argue! :wave:

This is a nice surprise!

Haha, thanks! I just created a brand new thread for us to argue (but I doubt you will find anything in there to argue about).
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I voted "Not sure or don't care". Sometimes the best answer can be "I don't know" then learn more about it, me thinks.

Matt 21:
25 "The baptism of John was from what source, from heaven or from men?" And they began reasoning among themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' He will say to us, 'Then why did you not believe him?'
26 "But if we say, 'From men,' we fear the people; for they all regard John as a prophet."…
27 And answering Jesus, they said, "We do not know."
He also said to them, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.


AchievementsInIgnorance_8659.png

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