Creationism/Evolution

[coffee4u]

But 6 Day Creationism gives God a limit and makes him subjected to a persons concept of time.
Through out history there are different ways people determined the day. Egyptians had 12 hrs, other like Norway experiences night for only 40 min in June, then you have Alaska in where evening is 67 days long during the winter..Who has the right duration of a day?

No where in the Bible does it say a day is 24 hours, it's science that says that so how long does this 6 day go: the way you understand it (24 hrs), or is it like the Alaskans which is 1,608 hrs (67 days) after the evening?



The biggest liars in history where always those who claimed their words come from God and scripture, not from science.

Of course it doesn't limit God. We are the ones who are limited. God was and is outside of time but he created time for us. When he says 6 days passed on the earth he means 6 days passed on the earth. The time passing on the earth has nothing to do with God (apart from him making it) because he isn't inside of nature.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
That is the word of God.

How much plainer could the author have made it? What more should he have done?

I bet no matter what he said-you and people like you would still point to scientists and say "proved otherwise' Which is your prerogative. You can keep that view. What you don't get to do is imply that we are liars. I may disagree with you but I don't go around implying you are lying.

 

[Cis.jd]

Of course it doesn't limit God. We are the ones who are limited. God was and is outside of time but he created time for us. When he says 6 days passed on the earth he means 6 days passed on the earth. The time passing on the earth has nothing to do with God (apart from him making it) because he isn't inside of nature.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
That is the word of God.

How much plainer could the author have made it? What more should he have done?

I bet no matter what he said-you and people like you would still point to scientists and say "proved otherwise' Which is your prerogative. You can keep that view. What you don't get to do is imply that we are liars. I may disagree with you but I don't go around implying you are lying.

You ask how "plainer"? By giving an exact duration as to how long those days were. As i said, not every part on earth has the same duration of a day.. so under whose time exactly are you putting God on, yours or is it based on the countries that I referenced there?

BTW, if you determine the time based on the 24 hour clock, then you are also following what science says, the Bible doesn't tell you a specific duration of a day. I'm not calling you a liar, but you've been fooled by a lie which is YEC - it is teaching that God created everything the way an individual defines time.

 

[JacksBratt]

But 6 Day Creationism gives God a limit and makes him subjected to a persons concept of time.
Through out history there are different ways people determined the day. Egyptians had 12 hrs, other like Norway experiences night for only 40 min in June, then you have Alaska in where evening is 67 days long during the winter..Who has the right duration of a day?

So, you agree, then, that a day is not how long the sun shines?

God made a day to be one seventh of a week. The sun and moon were not necessary for this time span to be established. God put the sun, moon and stars in the firmament in order to mark the days, weeks, months, seasons and events.

God was not confined to this time.. He created it and confined us to it. He stated that when He created the universe.. He did it in stages equal to an His established time of our day.

No where in the Bible does it say a day is 24 hours, it's science that says that...

You're right.. The bible doesn't say 24 hours.. It does, however, specifically mention a time frame of a "day".. Seven of these were mandated to be a week.... by God. We are to work for six days and rest on the seventh.

How you divide that time frame of a "day" is up to you.. We have established it to be 24 hours.
Why is a minute divided into 60 seconds, an hour into 60 minutes, yet there are only 24 hours in a day?

so how long does this 6 day go: 24 hrs, or is it like the Alaskans which is 1,608 hrs (67 days) after the evening?

I see what you did there.. using Alaska instead of Norway...

A day... is a day... is a day. No matter how long the sun shines or doesn't. It is not determined by the sun, or the moon, or the stars..

The biggest liars in history where always those who claimed their words come from God and scripture, not from science.

Evidence...?

Yes, I am aware that people use the scriptures to deceive. (Evidence for "the biggest liars" needed) This is very simple because people rightfully take the scriptures to be truth.. Problem is... those that deceive twist and take scripture out of context.

The most notorious example of this is Satan in the garden.

Christ gives us the example of how the scriptures, taken in context, can send Satan on his way.

 

[Jipsah]

I get it: evolution (theistic or otherwise) can only be incorporated into Christianity if we rewrite the Bible. This was pretty much what I was thinking.

Evolution, thesistic or otherwise, has nothing to do with Christianity. We confess that God created the universe. How He did it isn't specified in other than poetic/literary terms. The "you can't believe in evolution and be a Christian" notion is rubbish.

 

[Jipsah]

I know some very fine people who believe in evolution, and also claim to be Christian believers, but they are always trying to fit the biblical narrative into their beliefs in science.

Science isn't properly a matter of faith, it's properly based on the best empirical evidence available at any given time. That's why "settled science" is an idiotic phrase - nothing is ever "settled" in science, new data can, and often does, knock previous assumptions into a cocked hat. Scripture, however, doesn'll deal with best current data, it deals in broad ideas. Genesis isn't about giving us technical details about the Creation. Its thrust is "God created everything", and a presentation of the things that He created. Scripture is worthless as a basis for science or engineering because that isn't what it's about! You no more learn about celestial mechanics from the Bible than you can learn about how to create a vaccine for a virus from a newspaper article on Covid 19. The idea is ridiculous.

Speaking for myself, I disregard science that disagrees with scripture

Better toss that GPS, then. It can't possibly work (or exist!) in a flat stationary earth.

, science may compliment biblical beliefs from time to time, but IMHO science takes a back seat.

I assume that you drive nails with a pitchfork, then, because a pitchfork is A Better Tool, right?

 

[Cis.jd]

So, you agree, then, that a day is not how long the sun shines?
God made a day to be one seventh of a week. The sun and moon were not necessary for this time span to be established. God put the sun, moon and stars in the firmament in order to mark the days, weeks, months, seasons and events.

You're right.. The bible doesn't say 24 hours.. It does, however, specifically mention a time frame of a "day".. Seven of these were mandated to be a week.... by God. We are to work for six days and rest on the seventh.

There is a big problem with your response. Back then, people did determine time based on how long the sun shines, in fact they used a device called sundial clocks,
which only had 12 hours; which means this is how long a single day was to them.
So who's week, is it the 168 hour long week like yours or is this the 84 hours just like theirs? or is it 1,776 hours like the Alaskans?

How you divide that time frame of a "day" is up to you.. We have established it to be 24 hours.
Why is a minute divided into 60 seconds, an hour into 60 minutes, yet there are only 24 hours in a day?

You just posted a science link. Now what if you are not on earth, where there is no day, how can you just define a specific hour to indicate a day has passed for you?

A day... is a day... is a day. No matter how long the sun shines or doesn't. It is not determined by the sun, or the moon, or the stars..

That isn't what is said in Gen 1:5.

Evidence...?

Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Felix Manalo, random leaders who claim they can heal, satan...

 

[coffee4u]

You ask how "plainer"? By giving an exact duration as to how long those days were.

So if the scribe of Genesis (God is the author after all) had added to the text after each time a day is mentioned:
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.( a regular 24 hour day)
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day. (a regular 24 hour day)

And so on for each day mentioned, then you would actually agree with the writer and go against what science currently says?

 

[Cis.jd]

So if the scribe of Genesis (God is the author after all) had added to the text after each time a day is mentioned:
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.( a regular 24 hour day)
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day. (a regular 24 hour day)

And so on for each day mentioned, then you would actually agree with the writer and go against what science currently says?

If by your theatrics science had the same evidence it has now, then I would doubt that Genesis was truly inspired by God.

 

[nli]

Science isn't properly a matter of faith, it's properly based on the best empirical evidence available at any given time. That's why "settled science" is an idiotic phrase - nothing is ever "settled" in science, new data can, and often does, knock previous assumptions into a cocked hat.

That's right science is based on evidence and assumptions. We can't see and test the past so statements about the past are necessarily based on assumptions. Assumption include uniformitarian assumptions physical processes have always occurred at the same rates. This includes things like the erosion rate of the Colorado River flowing through the Grand Canyon, the speed of light, the strength of gravity, nuclear decay rates, more. We know that light can be slowed down and even stopped inside of a black hole. Light can also be changed by a prism. Is it not possible that some of the physical constant rates were greater in the past? Sure, it is. After all, we can only measure the constants from this place in the universe and at this time. If luminous objects are moving away from us, why doesn't the light just disappear?

 

[coffee4u]

If by your theatrics science had the same evidence it has now, then I would doubt that Genesis was truly inspired by God.

so no matter what the scribe/author of Genesis said you would not change your mind.

That is your prerogative but at least be honest about it. If you want to side with science against scripture you can. That is your right to do so, it's your free will that God gave us, but don't pretend your view comes from anything other than what it comes from -science.

I have no issue with those who want to follow science, but I do have an issue when people say their view comes from scripture when it doesn't.

 

[Cis.jd]

so no matter what the scribe/author of Genesis said you would not change your mind.

That is your prerogative but at least be honest about it. If you want to side with science against scripture you can. That is your right to do so, it's your free will that God gave us, but don't pretend your view comes from anything other than what it comes from -science.

I have no issue with those who want to follow science, but I do have an issue when people say their view comes from scripture when it doesn't.

Yes, because if it is proven to be false then it's not from God.

If i presented to you a book and I tell you it's from God, and you read there is only 1 continent in this planet, the earth's core is jelly, water is made of fire and air (not H20), etc would you believe that it is from God?

 

[Job 33:6]

If luminous objects are moving away from us, why doesn't the light just disappear?

Because light moves faster than the luminous objects.

 

[coffee4u]

Yes, because if it is proven to be false then it's not from God.

If i presented to you a book and I tell you it's from God, and you read there is only 1 continent in this planet, the earth's core is jelly, water is made of fire and air (not H20), etc would you believe that it is from God?

But we are not talking about any old book, we are talking about the Bible. The Bible says that it is God's breathed word to us. It's through the Bible we know Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

If we believe in the miracles that Jesus did which all go against science, why is creation any different?

 

[Cis.jd]

But we are not talking about any old book, we are talking about the Bible. The Bible says that it is God's breathed word to us. It's through the Bible we know Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

If we believe in the miracles that Jesus did which all go against science, why is creation any different?

We are talking about your pretend Genesis. The Bible isn't one book, so if this pretend Genesis of your contains false information then it isn't God's Word, therefore not the Bible but falsely canonized.

The reason why creation is different is because there is proof that is not to be taken literally.

edit: After all the points i presented (many which where just ignored), if you can't see how wrong and uneducated this 6 day literalism teaching is, then are you really of faith or just religious pride?

 

[coffee4u]

We are talking about your pretend Genesis. The Bible isn't one book, so if this pretend Genesis of your contains false information then it isn't God's Word, therefore not the Bible but falsely canonized.

The reason why creation is different is because there is proof that is not to be taken literally.

edit: After all the points i presented (many which where just ignored), if you can't see how wrong and uneducated this 6 day literalism teaching is, then are you really of faith or just religious pride?

So, you believe Genesis should be cut from scripture?

What about Exodus?

 

[JacksBratt]

We are talking about your pretend Genesis. The Bible isn't one book, so if this pretend Genesis of your contains false information then it isn't God's Word, therefore not the Bible but falsely canonized.

The reason why creation is different is because there is proof that is not to be taken literally.

edit: After all the points i presented (many which where just ignored), if you can't see how wrong and uneducated this 6 day literalism teaching is, then are you really of faith or just religious pride?

The bible is not a science book. God is above science. God could do it.. God said He did it.

When the created believes that they are more knowledgeable than the creator.. then the created is a fool.

In the end.. all will be revealed. Let God be true and every man a liar. God will show all those who claim to be wise.. to be the fools that they are.

 

[Cis.jd]

So, you believe Genesis should be cut from scripture?

What about Exodus?

What? I'm talking about your "what if Genesis" on post #247, not the real Genesis we have. Wow how off this reply was, you can't even understand the context of your own posts.

 

[Cis.jd]

The bible is not a science book. God is above science. God could do it.. God said He did it.

When the created believes that they are more knowledgeable than the creator.. then the created is a fool.

In the end.. all will be revealed. Let God be true and every man a liar. God will show all those who claim to be wise.. to be the fools that they are.

Look at all the points you ignored, this is all religious pride not about the truth.

edit: forget it. Your response to every point given is: "you do not believe in God/Bible as better than I do, so i am just right".. if all you are going to do is self-validating yourself/beliefs as a response, then we're done.

 

[JacksBratt]

and because of that you are done.

Are you canceling me?

 

[coffee4u]

What? I'm talking about your "what if Genesis" on post #247, not the real Genesis we have. Wow how off this reply was, you can't even understand the context of your own posts.

If you mean my red text, I added that to try and figure out how much more exact the author would have to be for you to be satisfied with it.

On post #242 you said

By giving an exact duration as to how long those days were. As i said, not every part on earth has the same duration of a day..

So I added an exact duration (just an example no one was saying it's scripture) , and asked if the author had been exact like that/similar to that, would you have been satisfied? You said no.
Which means If the author had given less or more information your view would not change, which I suspected but I was trying to be sure.