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Creation Story: Did God lie?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by theyre here, May 24, 2002.

  1. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Was Messiah really a Canaanite king, ruling over the Jebusites for a generation or so, sometime in the distant past? Prior to being born in Bethlehem, did Jesus serve as a Jebusite king? Think about it.

    The literal reading of the Torah does not actually indicate that Melchizedek was anything but a normal human being. The writer of the book of Hebrews never stated that Melchizedek was the Messiah or that Messiah is Melchizedek. Instead, he carefully constructs an argument that places Messiah in the priesthood of Melchizedek.
     
  2. Colter

    Colter Member

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    The world where the order of the Melchizedeks live is called Jerusum. Sometime after he left the Salem colony became became Jerusalem.

    But 500 years after Melchizedek left the Hebrews lost faith in the story of Melchizedek, so they had God come down from heaven and establish the covenant with Abram.
     
  3. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET BELIEVE IN MIRACLES Supporter

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    I have already ... now it's your turn.

    Jesus was the king of Salem (Jerusalem), as well as the priest of the Most High God.

    No man was ever allowed to serve in the capacity of both priest and king at the same time.

    A man could be a prophet-priest (Samuel), or he could be a king-prophet (David).

    But under no circumstances was he to be a priest-king.

    That is reserved for Jesus Christ.

    In fact, two men tried that, and both were IMMEDIATELY judged by God.

    1 Samuel 13:8 And he [Saul] tarried seven days, according to the set time that Samuel had appointed: but Samuel came not to Gilgal; and the people were scattered from him.

    9 And Saul said, Bring hither a burnt offering to me, and peace offerings. And he offered the burnt offering.
    10 And it came to pass, that as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, behold, Samuel came; and Saul went out to meet him, that he might salute him.
    11 And Samuel said, What hast thou done? And Saul said, Because I saw that the people were scattered from me, and that thou camest not within the days appointed, and that the Philistines gathered themselves together at Michmash;
    12 Therefore said I, The Philistines will come down now upon me to Gilgal, and I have not made supplication unto the LORD: I forced myself therefore, and offered a burnt offering.
    13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.
    14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee.


    2 Chronicles 26:16 But when he [Uzziah] was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense.

    17 And Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore priests of the LORD, that were valiant men:
    18 And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither shall it be for thine honour from the LORD God.
    19 Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the LORD, from beside the incense altar.
    20 And Azariah the chief priest, and all the priests, looked upon him, and, behold, he was leprous in his forehead, and they thrust him out from thence; yea, himself hasted also to go out, because the LORD had smitten him.
    21 And Uzziah the king was a leper unto the day of his death, and dwelt in a several house, being a leper; for he was cut off from the house of the LORD: and Jotham his son was over the king's house, judging the people of the land.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  4. Colter

    Colter Member

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    LoL! My Bible is the Urantia Book, I don't make it up. It helps sort and sift what the Hebrews made up.
     
  5. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    You are making a few cardinal errors in your interpretation of events here and this is the problem leading to your false conclusion.

    First, God sis not say "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die", Eve did, and what happened here is she showed the devil that she did not understand the word God had spoken. God said, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat, But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die."

    So when she added to the word by adding "neither shall you touch it" he already knew he had her.

    Secondly this was a warning from love not a threat like when a loving parent commands their child "Thou shalt not run out into the bust street for in the day you do you shalt surely get hit by a car." No one in their right mind believes that if the child at some point in their self will ignores the warning and does it anyway that when they get run over the parent went and got a car and hit them with it...right?...of course not!

    Next the death He was speaking of was spiritual death (separation from God) and in fact they did die this death that day and that is why He provides the promise of the redemption in Genesis 3:15. The devil not only knew this (because it was his condition) but knew she did not know. So he fooled her (beguiled or persuaded) by causing her to doubt God and His motives and lef her to desire to be lord of her own life deciding good and evil for herself.

    And whether He was speaking to His closest angels (who He also created to be without end) or not is irrelevant because the point here is that if they also partook of the Tree of Life they would be IN THEIR SIN in His presence forever.

    Finally the tree of life was always available...of EVERY tree they could eat except one....had they eaten of this one first they would have known and never chosen to partake of the fruit of the second tree (which is doubt, mis-trust, and self lordship)
     
  6. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    The Jebusites were not Jewish. Different culture, different rules. There is not a word of the restrictions you mention in the OT at the time of Abraham. The scriptures you posted were Jewish law at a later time.
     
  7. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET BELIEVE IN MIRACLES Supporter

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    Your post is a few verses shy of justification, isn't it?

    Can't you salt your points with documented backup?
     
  8. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET BELIEVE IN MIRACLES Supporter

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    No kidding!?

    Who said they were?

    The Jebusites came through Ham.

    Genesis 10:15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,
    Genesis 10:16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,

    The Jews came through Shem.
     
  9. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Show me the law that prohibits the Jebusites from having a priest/king. You have shown us the law concerning Jews.
     
  10. Colter

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    93. Machiventa Melchizedek - Melchizedek

    1. 94. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Orient - Melchizedek
    2. 95. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Levant - Melchizedek
    3. 96. Yahweh — God of the Hebrews - Melchizedek
    4. 97. Evolution of the God Concept among the Hebrews - Melchizedek
    5. 98. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Occident - Melchizedek
    6. 99. The Social Problems of Religion - Melchizedek
    7. 100. Religion in Human Experience - Melchizedek
    8. 101. The Real Nature of Religion - Melchizedek
    9. 102. The Foundations of Religious Faith - Melchizedek
    10. 103. The Reality of Religious Experience - Melchizedek
    11. 104. Growth of the Trinity Concept - Melchizedek
    12. 105. Deity and Reality - Melchizedek
    13. 106. Universe Levels of Reality - Melchizedek
    14. 107. Origin and Nature of Thought Adjusters - Solitary Messenger
    15. 108. Mission and Ministry of Thought Adjusters - Solitary Messenger
    16. 109. Relation of Adjusters to Universe Creatures - Solitary Messenger
    17. 110. Relation of Adjusters to Individual Mortals - Solitary Messenger
    18. 111. The Adjuster and the Soul - Solitary Messenger
    19. 112. Personality Survival - Solitary Messenger
    20. 113. Seraphic Guardians of Destiny - Chief of Seraphim
    21. 114. Seraphic Planetary Government - Chief of Seraphim
    22. 115. The Supreme Being - Mighty Messenger
    23. 116. The Almighty Supreme - Mighty Messenger
    24. 117. God the Supreme - Mighty Messenger
    25. 118. Supreme and Ultimate — Time and Space - Mighty Messenger
    26. 119. The Bestowals of Christ Michael - Chief of Evening Stars
     
  11. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET BELIEVE IN MIRACLES Supporter

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    I can't.

    And I couldn't care less if the Jebusites had a thousand priest/kings.

    The one named Melchizedek in Abraham's time was Jesus Christ.

    Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
    2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
    3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
    4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
     
  12. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET BELIEVE IN MIRACLES Supporter

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    Well, I asked, didn't I? :doh:
     
  13. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    So when did Jesus give up the gig as King of Salem and go back to heaven? Somehow the Bible doesn't say anything about that.
     
  14. Colter

    Colter Member

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    8. DEPARTURE OF MELCHIZEDEK

    93:8.1 "It was shortly after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah that Machiventa decided to end his emergency bestowal on Urantia. Melchizedek's decision to terminate his sojourn in the flesh was influenced by numerous conditions, chief of which was the growing tendency of the surrounding tribes, and even of his immediate associates, to regard him as a demigod, to look upon him as a supernatural being, which indeed he was; but they were beginning to reverence him unduly and with a highly superstitious fear. In addition to these reasons, Melchizedek wanted to leave the scene of his earthly activities a sufficient length of time before Abraham's death to insure that the truth of the one and only God would become strongly established in the minds of his followers. Accordingly Machiventa retired one night to his tent at Salem, having said good night to his human companions, and when they went to call him in the morning, he was not there, for his fellows had taken him."
     
  15. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET BELIEVE IN MIRACLES Supporter

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    I think someone put something in the water in Chicago in 1955.
     
  16. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Truth, they put truth in the water. It's the Bible of the future.
     
  17. lesliedellow

    lesliedellow Member

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    I thought that was the Book of Mormon. Another piece of nonsense of very dubious origin.
     
  18. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Well, I like you anyway and I like your posts.

    But you stumbled into a good point. Mormonism, it's huge and those door-knockers are committed people! Islam, bigger than Christianity now. Hinduism, I think they have thousands of Gods. Buddhism, the largest religion without a God. Christianity with its tens of thousands of sects, each telling the other, we are right and you are wrong. The fact of this diversity of "belief" is proof positive that just because someone believes something doesn't make it factually true.

    So, we are so blessed to have you lesliedellow, the official arbiter of all that is true or not.
     
  19. lesliedellow

    lesliedellow Member

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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  20. Colter

    Colter Member

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    image.jpeg
     
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