Creation Story: Did God lie?

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,390
✟162,912.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
Assuming Uz is Egypt, what does that matter?You do know that Melchizedek was Jesus Christ, do you not?


Was Messiah really a Canaanite king, ruling over the Jebusites for a generation or so, sometime in the distant past? Prior to being born in Bethlehem, did Jesus serve as a Jebusite king? Think about it.

The literal reading of the Torah does not actually indicate that Melchizedek was anything but a normal human being. The writer of the book of Hebrews never stated that Melchizedek was the Messiah or that Messiah is Melchizedek. Instead, he carefully constructs an argument that places Messiah in the priesthood of Melchizedek.
 
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,406
60
✟92,791.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Your boys from Chicago wrote that, did they?

Evidently Jerusalem didn't get the message.

And I'm glad.

Incidentally, where did Marshall Applewhite go wrong?
The world where the order of the Melchizedeks live is called Jerusum. Sometime after he left the Salem colony became became Jerusalem.

But 500 years after Melchizedek left the Hebrews lost faith in the story of Melchizedek, so they had God come down from heaven and establish the covenant with Abram.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Was Messiah really a Canaanite king, ruling over the Jebusites for a generation or so, sometime in the distant past? Prior to being born in Bethlehem, did Jesus serve as a Jebusite king? Think about it.
I have already ... now it's your turn.

Jesus was the king of Salem (Jerusalem), as well as the priest of the Most High God.

No man was ever allowed to serve in the capacity of both priest and king at the same time.

A man could be a prophet-priest (Samuel), or he could be a king-prophet (David).

But under no circumstances was he to be a priest-king.

That is reserved for Jesus Christ.

In fact, two men tried that, and both were IMMEDIATELY judged by God.

1 Samuel 13:8 And he [Saul] tarried seven days, according to the set time that Samuel had appointed: but Samuel came not to Gilgal; and the people were scattered from him.

9 And Saul said, Bring hither a burnt offering to me, and peace offerings. And he offered the burnt offering.
10 And it came to pass, that as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, behold, Samuel came; and Saul went out to meet him, that he might salute him.
11 And Samuel said, What hast thou done? And Saul said, Because I saw that the people were scattered from me, and that thou camest not within the days appointed, and that the Philistines gathered themselves together at Michmash;
12 Therefore said I, The Philistines will come down now upon me to Gilgal, and I have not made supplication unto the LORD: I forced myself therefore, and offered a burnt offering.
13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.
14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee.


2 Chronicles 26:16 But when he [Uzziah] was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense.

17 And Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore priests of the LORD, that were valiant men:
18 And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither shall it be for thine honour from the LORD God.
19 Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the LORD, from beside the incense altar.
20 And Azariah the chief priest, and all the priests, looked upon him, and, behold, he was leprous in his forehead, and they thrust him out from thence; yea, himself hasted also to go out, because the LORD had smitten him.
21 And Uzziah the king was a leper unto the day of his death, and dwelt in a several house, being a leper; for he was cut off from the house of the LORD: and Jotham his son was over the king's house, judging the people of the land.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,406
60
✟92,791.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I am not sure whether AV or Colter is more creative iwhen it comes to making up things not found in the Bible, but Colter probably wins.
LoL! My Bible is the Urantia Book, I don't make it up. It helps sort and sift what the Hebrews made up.
 
Upvote 0

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,026
620
✟78,299.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I've discussed this point in other forums and am curious about the opinions here.

If we examine the fable of Eden, we discover an interesting observation. God seems to have lied, and the serpent seems to have told the truth. God told Adam and Eve: (Genesis 3:3) “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die .” And the serpent responded: (Genesis 3:4) “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die .” Well, as the story goes, we know they both ate the fruit, and did not die.

Following along...

Next, who is God talking to in the following: (Genesis 3:22) “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us , to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever ”? Who is he addressing as us? Also, was the "tree of life" another alternate (but forbidden to humans) means of eternal life in heaven?

Opinions?

You are making a few cardinal errors in your interpretation of events here and this is the problem leading to your false conclusion.

First, God sis not say "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die", Eve did, and what happened here is she showed the devil that she did not understand the word God had spoken. God said, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat, But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die."

So when she added to the word by adding "neither shall you touch it" he already knew he had her.

Secondly this was a warning from love not a threat like when a loving parent commands their child "Thou shalt not run out into the bust street for in the day you do you shalt surely get hit by a car." No one in their right mind believes that if the child at some point in their self will ignores the warning and does it anyway that when they get run over the parent went and got a car and hit them with it...right?...of course not!

Next the death He was speaking of was spiritual death (separation from God) and in fact they did die this death that day and that is why He provides the promise of the redemption in Genesis 3:15. The devil not only knew this (because it was his condition) but knew she did not know. So he fooled her (beguiled or persuaded) by causing her to doubt God and His motives and lef her to desire to be lord of her own life deciding good and evil for herself.

And whether He was speaking to His closest angels (who He also created to be without end) or not is irrelevant because the point here is that if they also partook of the Tree of Life they would be IN THEIR SIN in His presence forever.

Finally the tree of life was always available...of EVERY tree they could eat except one....had they eaten of this one first they would have known and never chosen to partake of the fruit of the second tree (which is doubt, mis-trust, and self lordship)
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,390
✟162,912.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
I have already ... now it's your turn.

Jesus was the king of Salem (Jerusalem), as well as the priest of the Most High God.

No man was ever allowed to serve in the capacity of both priest and king at the same time.

A man could be a prophet-priest (Samuel), or he could be a king-prophet (David).

But under no circumstances was he to be a priest-king.

That is reserved for Jesus Christ.

In fact, two men tried that, and both were IMMEDIATELY judged by God.

1 Samuel 13:8 And he [Saul] tarried seven days, according to the set time that Samuel had appointed: but Samuel came not to Gilgal; and the people were scattered from him.

9 And Saul said, Bring hither a burnt offering to me, and peace offerings. And he offered the burnt offering.
10 And it came to pass, that as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, behold, Samuel came; and Saul went out to meet him, that he might salute him.
11 And Samuel said, What hast thou done? And Saul said, Because I saw that the people were scattered from me, and that thou camest not within the days appointed, and that the Philistines gathered themselves together at Michmash;
12 Therefore said I, The Philistines will come down now upon me to Gilgal, and I have not made supplication unto the LORD: I forced myself therefore, and offered a burnt offering.
13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.
14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee.


2 Chronicles 26:16 But when he [Uzziah] was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense.

17 And Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore priests of the LORD, that were valiant men:
18 And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither shall it be for thine honour from the LORD God.
19 Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the LORD, from beside the incense altar.
20 And Azariah the chief priest, and all the priests, looked upon him, and, behold, he was leprous in his forehead, and they thrust him out from thence; yea, himself hasted also to go out, because the LORD had smitten him.
21 And Uzziah the king was a leper unto the day of his death, and dwelt in a several house, being a leper; for he was cut off from the house of the LORD: and Jotham his son was over the king's house, judging the people of the land.

The Jebusites were not Jewish. Different culture, different rules. There is not a word of the restrictions you mention in the OT at the time of Abraham. The scriptures you posted were Jewish law at a later time.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
LoL! My Bible is the Urantia Book, I don't make it up.
Your post is a few verses shy of justification, isn't it?

Can't you salt your points with documented backup?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Jebusites were not Jewish.
No kidding!?

Who said they were?

The Jebusites came through Ham.

Genesis 10:15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,
Genesis 10:16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,

The Jews came through Shem.
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,390
✟162,912.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
No kidding!?

Who said they were?

The Jebusites came through Ham.

Genesis 10:15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,
Genesis 10:16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,

The Jews came through Shem.

Show me the law that prohibits the Jebusites from having a priest/king. You have shown us the law concerning Jews.
 
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,406
60
✟92,791.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Your post is a few verses shy of justification, isn't it?

Can't you salt your points with documented backup?
Your post is a few verses shy of justification, isn't it?

Can't you salt your points with documented backup?
sure
93. Machiventa Melchizedek - Melchizedek

  1. 94. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Orient - Melchizedek
  2. 95. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Levant - Melchizedek
  3. 96. Yahweh — God of the Hebrews - Melchizedek
  4. 97. Evolution of the God Concept among the Hebrews - Melchizedek
  5. 98. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Occident - Melchizedek
  6. 99. The Social Problems of Religion - Melchizedek
  7. 100. Religion in Human Experience - Melchizedek
  8. 101. The Real Nature of Religion - Melchizedek
  9. 102. The Foundations of Religious Faith - Melchizedek
  10. 103. The Reality of Religious Experience - Melchizedek
  11. 104. Growth of the Trinity Concept - Melchizedek
  12. 105. Deity and Reality - Melchizedek
  13. 106. Universe Levels of Reality - Melchizedek
  14. 107. Origin and Nature of Thought Adjusters - Solitary Messenger
  15. 108. Mission and Ministry of Thought Adjusters - Solitary Messenger
  16. 109. Relation of Adjusters to Universe Creatures - Solitary Messenger
  17. 110. Relation of Adjusters to Individual Mortals - Solitary Messenger
  18. 111. The Adjuster and the Soul - Solitary Messenger
  19. 112. Personality Survival - Solitary Messenger
  20. 113. Seraphic Guardians of Destiny - Chief of Seraphim
  21. 114. Seraphic Planetary Government - Chief of Seraphim
  22. 115. The Supreme Being - Mighty Messenger
  23. 116. The Almighty Supreme - Mighty Messenger
  24. 117. God the Supreme - Mighty Messenger
  25. 118. Supreme and Ultimate — Time and Space - Mighty Messenger
  26. 119. The Bestowals of Christ Michael - Chief of Evening Stars
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Show me the law that prohibits the Jebusites from having a priest/king.
I can't.

And I couldn't care less if the Jebusites had a thousand priest/kings.

The one named Melchizedek in Abraham's time was Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,390
✟162,912.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
The one named Melchizedek in Abraham's time was Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

So when did Jesus give up the gig as King of Salem and go back to heaven? Somehow the Bible doesn't say anything about that.
 
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,406
60
✟92,791.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
8. DEPARTURE OF MELCHIZEDEK

93:8.1 "It was shortly after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah that Machiventa decided to end his emergency bestowal on Urantia. Melchizedek's decision to terminate his sojourn in the flesh was influenced by numerous conditions, chief of which was the growing tendency of the surrounding tribes, and even of his immediate associates, to regard him as a demigod, to look upon him as a supernatural being, which indeed he was; but they were beginning to reverence him unduly and with a highly superstitious fear. In addition to these reasons, Melchizedek wanted to leave the scene of his earthly activities a sufficient length of time before Abraham's death to insure that the truth of the one and only God would become strongly established in the minds of his followers. Accordingly Machiventa retired one night to his tent at Salem, having said good night to his human companions, and when they went to call him in the morning, he was not there, for his fellows had taken him."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,406
60
✟92,791.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I thought that was the Book of Mormon. Another piece of nonsense of very dubious origin.
Well, I like you anyway and I like your posts.

But you stumbled into a good point. Mormonism, it's huge and those door-knockers are committed people! Islam, bigger than Christianity now. Hinduism, I think they have thousands of Gods. Buddhism, the largest religion without a God. Christianity with its tens of thousands of sects, each telling the other, we are right and you are wrong. The fact of this diversity of "belief" is proof positive that just because someone believes something doesn't make it factually true.

So, we are so blessed to have you lesliedellow, the official arbiter of all that is true or not.
 
Upvote 0

lesliedellow

Member
Sep 20, 2010
9,652
2,582
United Kingdom
Visit site
✟104,175.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Colter
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,406
60
✟92,791.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
image.jpeg
 
  • Haha
Reactions: EpiscipalMe
Upvote 0