Creation or Evolution?

[JohnR7]

so basically, you guys just hurl insults at eachother...

That is pretty much it. Sort of like tennis only like you say, people just hurl insults back and forth. I can be as guilty as the rest of them sometimes. Although at times I am the only christian here and I am outnumbered. Still people do not want to hear the truth.

 

[Drotar]

You are not the only Christian here John.

Rarely, maybe at like 4 in the morning if you happen to be on with two other people, then you might be the only Christian.

But then you're not very outnumbered.

 

[Aeschylus]

wow...you make it sound torturous...so basically, you guys just hurl insults at eachother...maybe I should find another thread...

I resent that, big ears

 

[Drotar]

...so basically, you guys just hurl insults at eachother...

Yeah. Well not exactly...


No wait, you're right.

 

[StainedClassKing]

I'll leave this one up to the atheists on the board. Does this statement have anything to do with your not believing in Christianity?

A little. I had been brought up believing the lie that evolution was incompatible with Christianity. When I finally started actually doing real research into evolution, I came to realize that denying evolution was absurd. From there, I started questioning my faith and with in two years, I was no longer a Christian.

Sometime after becoming atheist, I learned more about nonliteralist Christianity and that it is much more honest and benign and not antagonistic to science. If I had discovered this kind of Christianity before deconversion, I would most likely have never deconverted.

I tried once to readopt this brand of Christianity but couldn't. Despite what fundamentalist Christians like to pretend, people can't just change their beliefs on the drop of a dime or make themselves believe something that they are convinced isn't true.

So it wasn't really evolution, but actually the lie that evolution is not compatible with Christianity that lead to my atheism.

 

[ravenwolf]

Your a Pagan? So what is this creative force, out of curiosity, I'm not very up to speed on Paganism. But if you're a Pagan why do you care about the Bible?

I'm confused, help me out.

i quote from the Bible because its the only holy book i really know, i believe all holy books are meaningful in that they are written by spiritual people....i believe anything written from the Spirit or the God within is meaningful and beatiful, including the bible and other holy books or even poetry and written prayers. The craetive force would be God/Goddess, Spirit, whatever one chooses to call it. The other reason why i like to read religouse/holy books of other religions is i like to find the similarities , the common threads. I also believe things in the Bible are symbolic so i see it differently than most christians....i do like to read Jesus' teachings, that doesnt mean all pagans and wiccans like to also. Wicca is a very open and personal path.. There really isnt a set doctrine or dogma....theres no strict guidelines or rules on what to think about things and having to stay in a certain set of thoughts ....there is a lot of freedom as far as beliefs and philosophies, a lot of wiccans incorporate other aspects of spirituality in their path. I also study Gnostism(which is not a religion...its a philosophy/way of life), I hope that cleared up what you were confused about.

 

[aeroz19]

GundamX:

If you really want to learn about these things, this forum may not be the best place to start. You'll have to wade through too much emotional garbage and expose yourself to too many brain-washing agendas to get the real story here.

Seek science from honest scientists and theology from honest theologians, then make up your own mind.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[hereIam2Worship]

With his mouth the godless destroy his neighbor, but through knowledge the righteous escape. Proverbs 11:9

 

[Drotar]

Then, there's no way out for some people.

 

[hereIam2Worship]

The book of Proverbs was intended to help Christians and perhaps even non-Christians. We don't just ignore the non-Christian, we have to help them. Its just that the "fools" in Proverbs are the ones that will never change their ways and can actually harm you.

 

[lucaspa]

However, I agree with John. Lucaspa is targetting the unbelivers, and my proof is that he didn't contradict the accusation.

1. John said the opposite. He said I was targeting Christians. He said my audience and supporters were the unbelievers.
2. I didn't deny it because I didn't think I needed to. My posts speak for themselves. Besides, Drotar did it for me!

Drotar has it correct: I disagree with Biblical literalism and Fundamentalism -- which, of course, are behind creationism. However, I no longer consider either to be Christian. Both are, IMO, false idol worship.

 

[lucaspa]

if you guys were even trying to move me from my acceptance of Christ's love, then you guys have failed miserably...but then again, so have I.

I don't see anyone in this thread -- including the atheists -- trying to move you from accepting Christ's love. Instead, they are trying to get you to reject a scientific theory -- creationism -- that is just plain wrong. They are trying to get you to realize that God simply did not create the way creationism says He did.

Being Christian and believing creationism are two separate things. Again, look at the second quote in my signature. At the time, McCosh was the most respected and famous Christian in the US. Sort of like Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, and ArchBishop O'Meally all rolled into one.

 

[franklin]

There are universal laws that cannot be ignored. Such as the laws of logic. GOD Leaves nothing undone or without purpose.

What was God's purpose for his creation of cancer? Are those part of his universal laws of logic too ?

 

[lucaspa]

How about creation by evolution? IOW, how about evolution being the method God used to create?

iBut i also believe in creation as well, meaning i believe that there is a creative force behind it all, and within everything.

1. A creative force in everything is contrary to Christianity. God is seperate from the universe He created.
2. Science has looked very hard for a creative force within everything but separate from everything. None has been found.

its also ibteresting to note that the succession of events in the creation story in genisis is paralell to the theory of the big bang and the series of successsion in evolution, the only diff. is the bible says this happened in 7 days.

When you look at the details, they are very different. For instance, plants before the sun and stars?

 

[lucaspa]

What was God's purpose for his creation of cancer? Are those part of his universal laws of logic too ?

God didn't create cancer as in directly made it. Cancer is an unavoidable byproduct of the universal laws. In this case the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

 

[lucaspa]

Although at times I am the only christian here and I am outnumbered.

How do you figure that? You realize that you are skating very close to the edge of forum rules that says you are not allowed say other Christians are not.

Still people do not want to hear the truth.

What you consider truth is not necessarily "the truth".

 

[lucaspa]

The book of Proverbs was intended to help Christians and perhaps even non-Christians.

Where is Proverbs? In the OT, isn't it? Christianity didn't exist then. So Proverbs was intended to help Jews.

That it also helps Christians is nice, but that wasn't the intent originally. HereIam, please be careful about imposing your own views on the Bible. If you truly believe the Bible is the "word of God", then wouldn't it be better to listen to God and not try to tell God what He intended?

 

[Billnew]

IMO,
How the earth began is one question to ask the creator, when we meet.
I will take the creation view as part of the story. God doesn't lie.

Evolution has some good points but have made some big leaps in judgements.

Never except one story as pure fact unless you hear it from god.
Humans can misunderstand and misinterpret any combonations of fact.
Believe until it is disproved. Know theres holes in all theories.

Listen to all possiblities and decide what sounds true.

I have trouble believing in drastic macro-evolution. The one celled bacteria combining with another to become a organism. Current science states no findings of improving natural birth defects in our lifetime.

School should reinforce sceince theory. Know facts from theory. Facts are don't change, theorys are an interpretation of facts.

 

[franklin]

I will take the creation view as part of the story. God doesn't lie.

And that is just about all it is, a story, a fable. If there is a God I'm sure He or she wouldn't lie, but the men who created the god of the bible might have been either lying or just plain ignorant and superstitous.

 

[franklin]

God didn't create cancer as in directly made it.

Isn't that encouraging. So God indirectly created not only cancer but all diseases. He might have made a great politician also.

Cancer is an unavoidable byproduct of the universal laws. In this case the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

More excuses for an alleged Divine designer.....

Who is all powerful, God or the second L of T ? So the alleged Almighty in his omniscience and omnipotence was powerless to snap his all powerful cosmic fingers in order to avoid the unavoidable byproduct of the universal laws from causing deadly diseases ?