Creation or Evolution?

[Ron21647]

One of my major objections to most posts in this topic is the making of an evolutionary creationist possible. It is not.

I believe you can be a Christian evolutionist because to be a Christian you have to accept the gospel (accept Christ as your Savior). And you can do this while being an evolutionist. But being an evolutionist will destroy your case for Christ (I might comment on that later if anyone questions the statement).

Ok, I've been a Christian for over 40 years, and an evolutionist for about as long. So just how long is my being an evolutionist supposed to take before it destroys my faith in Christ? Here's a hint: it won't and it never will.

You offerred comments, let's hear them!

Ron

 

[The Bellman]

You dont get it either....
I dont care in the least about one piece of data.......or 10 ......or 100....or 1000

All I care about is
DOES IT PROVE EVOLUTION AS A WHOLE AS ITS TAUGHT....

THAT is my ONLY concern......
If the answer is NO........then the issue is entirely moot to me and you know it...
If the answer were YES........well, we wouldnt be discussing all this would we

Yes, we would, because creationists refuse to accept what is evidenced when it conflicts with their reliigious beliefs.

 

[reggsc]

I think people should be able to decide/figure it out themselves. It's great to see that you're curious about which concept is true.

 

[Aeschylus]

I think people should be able to decide/figure it out themselves. It's great to see that you're curious about which concept is true.

I think people should decide for themselves whether or not ether theories or special relativity is true, but I don't think ether theories should be taught as science in schools (except maybe in a historical context as they often are).

 

[JohnR7]

Ok, I've been a Christian for over 40 years, and an evolutionist for about as long. So just how long is my being an evolutionist supposed to take before it destroys my faith in Christ? Here's a hint: it won't and it never will.

Wow, talk about being hard headed, you would think by now you would have come to your senses and repented of your evolutionism.

Warning: This post is intended for amusement and not to be taken serious.

 

[The Bellman]

I think people should decide for themselves whether or not ether theories or special relativity is true, but I don't think ether theories should be taught as science in schools (except maybe in a historical context as they often are).

Should people also be allowed to decide for themselves, and not have taught in school, the following:

- basic arithmetic
- chemistry
- physics (gravitational theory, etc.)
- history?

 

[Aeschylus]

I mean 'ether theories' as in 'luminiferous aether'.

I guessing you've read 'ether' as 'either'.

 

[JohnR7]

Should people also be allowed to decide for themselves, and not have taught in school, the following:

- basic arithmetic
- chemistry
- physics (gravitational theory, etc.)
- history?

Only the parts of it that involve the man made theory of evolution.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Only the parts of it that involve the man made theory of evolution.

........All of the above are man-made theories.

 

[Moonflicker]

........All of the above are man-made theories.

He means where man came from, not the things man made for us to keep track of things.

 

[Data]

He means where man came from, not the things man made for us to keep track of things.

Er, no he doesn't

 

[The Bellman]

Only the parts of it that involve the man made theory of evolution.

Ah. I see. Out of the huge mass of man-made theories which involve our universe, you want to pick out ONE and declare that since it's a "man-made theory", we shouldn't teach it as fact. Meanwhile, we should continue to teach all the other man-made theories as fact...because those ones don't upset your religious beliefs.

You'll forgive us if we observe that you have no reason to not teach evolutionary theory except that it upsets your religious beliefs.

 

[Ron21647]

Wow, talk about being hard headed, you would think by now you would have come to your senses and repented of your evolutionism.

Warning: This post is intended for amusement and not to be taken serious.

Don't worry, it was amusing before I got to the second line. I almost spit a mouthful of coffee on the computer screen.

Ron

 

[Moonflicker]

Ah. I see. Out of the huge mass of man-made theories which involve our universe, you want to pick out ONE and declare that since it's a "man-made theory", we shouldn't teach it as fact. Meanwhile, we should continue to teach all the other man-made theories as fact...because those ones don't upset your religious beliefs.

You'll forgive us if we observe that you have no reason to not teach evolutionary theory except that it upsets your religious beliefs.

Only because this one cannot be proven right...

 

[Tomk80]

Only because this one cannot be proven right...

Study it! Then come back.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

Only because this one cannot be proven right...

No scientific theory can be proven right, strictly speaking, whether it's evolution or relativity or atomic theory you're talking about. You should learn how science works before you make statements like that.

By your statement there, no science at all should be taught in schools.

 

[Nathan Poe]

He means where man came from, not the things man made for us to keep track of things.

No, John means made by man. At least, that's what he's meant every other time he's used that phrase...

 

[Underdog77]

Alright Ron, I've posted this before (althought it may have been at a different site)

Let's say we are Christian who believe in evolution. We believe the God used evolution over a large time span (some say millions others say billions).

1) as Christians we believe that sin causes death, both spiritual and physical
2) the first sin was created by Adam and Eve and through them sin was brought
into the world and along with that sin came death
3) if evolution was used, then there was death in the world before sin. This
makes the belief that 'sin brings death' wrong
4) if that belief is wrong then Christ's death (which the purpose was to relieve
us of our sin and as result save us from spiritual death) was in vain. He
could relieve us of our sin but that would not save us spiritually.
5) therefore Christ (though historically we know he existed, died, and was resurrected) died for nothing and your saving faith is not saving and is therefore false.

I did not make the statement "could destroy your faith" meaning it rob you, Ron, personally of your ability to believe what you do. What I meant was evolutionists can use the step-by-step deductions that I just did to show to the world that Christianity (the belief that Christ can save your soul if your merely ask Him to) is false if evolution is true.

 

[lucaspa]

Alright Ron, I've posted this before (althought it may have been at a different site)

Let's say we are Christian who believe in evolution. We believe the God used evolution over a large time span (some say millions others say billions).

1) as Christians we believe that sin causes death, both spiritual and physical

No, "we" don't. The death is spiritual, not physical. Adam and Eve were gong to physically die.

2) the first sin was created by Adam and Eve and through them sin was brought into the world and along with that sin came death
3) if evolution was used, then there was death in the world before sin. This
makes the belief that 'sin brings death' wrong

The premises are wrong, therefore the conclusion is wrong. Adam and Eve are archetypes for each and every one of us. Each of us disobeys God at some point in our lives. Each of us sins. Adam and Eve simply are a way for a story to represent each and every one of us.

4) if that belief is wrong then Christ's death (which the purpose was to relieve us of our sin and as result save us from spiritual death) was in vain. He could relieve us of our sin but that would not save us spiritually.

Jesus acted as a sacrifice in atonement to God of our sins. That one sacrifice atones for every person's sins thru all time. As long as we repent, Christ's death is the atonement and God will then forgive the sin and restore us to His presence.

What I meant was evolutionists can use the step-by-step deductions that I just did to show to the world that Christianity (the belief that Christ can save your soul if your merely ask Him to) is false if evolution is true.

No, they can't. Because the logic is 1) based on false premises and 2) has does-not-follow conclusions.

 

[lucaspa]

Only because this one cannot be proven right...

As some have pointed out, no theory is, strictly speaking, proven right. However, the evidence for it is as overwhelming as the evidence that the theory that the earth is round is right, or that germs cause disease is right, or that oxygen is involved in combustion is right, or the theory that the sun is the center of the solar system is right.

All of these are theories. I would bet, Moonflicker, that you consider all of them as "proved". Well, evolution is just as proved, or more so, than any of them.

Just to be sure that we are talking about the same thing when we say "evolution", I am talking about the theory of descent with modification.