Creating a New Nation! The New C.S.A. (2)

[ShieldOFaith]

The govt IS NOT APPOINTED BY GOD!

Prove that God DOES appoint govt and you might not look foolish.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. --ROMANS 13

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

One more time real big:

"LET EVERY SOUL BE SUBJECT TO THE GOVERNING AUTHORITIES. FOR THERE IS NO AUTHORITY EXCEPT FROM GOD, AND THE AUTHORITIES THAT EXIST ARE APPOINTED BY GOD."

Here comes the tricky part:

"AND THE AUTHORITIES THAT EXIST ARE APPOINTED BY GOD".

You were saying???????
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[tulc]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] One more time real big:

"LET EVERY SOUL BE SUBJECT TO THE GOVERNING AUTHORITIES. FOR THERE IS NO AUTHORITY EXCEPT FROM GOD, AND THE AUTHORITIES THAT EXIST ARE APPOINTED BY GOD."

Here comes the tricky part:

"AND THE AUTHORITIES THAT EXIST ARE APPOINTED BY GOD".

You were saying??????? [/FONT]

Hmmm so we're back to "Are Islamic countries wrong to execute people who convert to being Christian?" Your position seems to be no, that's their law they are doing right.
tulc(just wondering)

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Sheild - are some sins worse than others? Simple yes or no will do.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]10 Then Pilate said to Him, "Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?" 11 Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin." --John 19

Uhm....
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[Avatar]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]10 Then Pilate said to Him, "Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?" 11 Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin." --John 19

Uhm....
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What's your position on the sin of gluttony? I ask after having viewed your profile pic. That one death-worthy? I hear its a mortal sin. I'd suggest self-infliction of the noose, just not sure the rope would hold.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Hmmm so we're back to "Are Islamic countries wrong to execute people who convert to being Christian?" Your position seems to be no, that's their law they are doing right.
tulc(just wondering)

The government of Iran has been given authority by GOD to govern the people of Iran. Sometimes those who make the laws in a human government go contrary to GOD'S laws. God never gave any commands granting the execution of any human being for becoming a Christian.

Hence, the Iranian Government would be in the wrong for calling for Capital Punishment on someone for becoming a Christian.

However, if they execute a criminal for Murder, or Rape; then they would be in the right in the sight of GOD.

This is not that difficult.

 

[Blackguard_]

Very easy question. Can you answer it?

Yes, they are two people in a relationship with other people. The people they defer to in the collection of people known as the State commanded them how to act in their relationship with the criminal.

Like it or not, the executioners have an inter-personal relationship wit the condemned. That they are following the commands of others does not negate that.

What you are arguing, that government personnel are not moral actors but only extensions of the will of others, is the foundation of the Nuremberg Defense.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

What's your position on the sin of gluttony? I ask after having viewed your profile pic. That one death-worthy? I hear its a mortal sin. I'd suggest self-infliction of the noose, just not sure the rope would hold.

Well, I am not that fat bro. I was wearing a big sweat shirt that day. I am around 5'8'' or so and around 200lbs. I am 44yrs old so I have filled out some since my 20's. I have a physical job and I work out some. So I am not as cut as I used to be, but I do have some muscle which weighs more than fat. I should post some more pics so you'd understand what I mean.

Trust me though, I am not some gluttonous rotundus slob. My wife would not let me get that way.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Yes, they are two people in a relationship with other people. The people they defer to in the collection of people known as the State commanded them how to act in their relationship with the criminal.

Like it or not, the executioners have an inter-personal relationship wit the condemned. That they are following the commands of others does not negate that.

What you are arguing, that government personnel are not moral actors but only extensions of the will of others, is the foundation of the Nuremberg Defense.

So in other words, there is no such thing as government? The state of Texas does not exist? There is no such thing as the Death Penalty in the state of Texas?

I just imagined all that, right?

This is all due to the fact that the police/ prison guards that lead a prisoner to execution have an inter-personal relationship with said prisoner? Humm....

 

[Avatar]

Well, I am not that fat bro. I was wearing a big sweat shirt that day. I am around 5'8'' or so and around 200lbs. I am 44yrs old so I have filled out some since my 20's. I have a physical job and I work out some. So I am not as cut as I used to be, but I do have some muscle which weighs more than fat. I should post some more pics so you'd understand what I mean.

Trust me though, I am not some gluttonous rotundus slob. My wife would not let me get that way.

At 200lbs and 5'8" your body mass index is 30.4. You are categorized as obese according to the WHO and CDC.

Mortal sin dude.

*burp*

 

[Blackguard_]

The State of Texas exists only as collection of inter-personal relationships. At the most basic, a State is an-interpersonal relationship of the governers with the governed.

The State of Texas is not an ethereal entity.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

At 200lbs and 5'8" your body mass index is 30.4. You are categorized as obese according to the WHO and CDC.

Mortal sin dude.

*burp*

Joke.

What's up with your cat? Lillith?

 

[ShieldOFaith]

The State of Texas does not exist as an entity seperate from the inter-personal relationships that make it up.

The State of Texas is not an ethereal entity above people, it is people.

Does it, or does it not posses the authority to exercise Capital Punishment?

 

[Avatar]

Joke.

What's up with your cat? Lillith?

What about her? (nice re-direct btw. )

 

[ShieldOFaith]

What about her? (nice re-direct btw. )

Why Lillith?

 

[Avatar]

Why Lillith?

Satan made me do it.

 

[Blackguard_]

Does it, or does it not posses the authority to exercise Capital Punishment?

Well duh, it's used it several times.

Whether or not it has the ethical right to use it is another question.

Do you have the right to execute someone in an inter-personal relationship?

Also, maybe you should read Romans 12 for a change. Paul said to submit to authorities right after saying not to resist evil with evil, not to revenge yourselves, and to overcome evil with good.


If that Bible College was worth anything, you would know chapter and verse is a medieval innovation, and Paul saying to submit to authority is the next sentence after he says to overcome evil with good.

St. Paul was not singing the praises of the State in Romans 13. He saying to endure under it and pointing out it's part of God's plan and can be an instrument of God's wrath as well.

 

[tulc]

The government of Iran has been given authority by GOD to govern the people of Iran. Sometimes those who make the laws in a human government go contrary to GOD'S laws. God never gave any commands granting the execution of any human being for becoming a Christian.

Hence, the Iranian Government would be in the wrong for calling for Capital Punishment on someone for becoming a Christian.

However, if they execute a criminal for Murder, or Rape; then they would be in the right in the sight of GOD.

This is not that difficult.

hmmm I can see how it's not difficult if you restate the question so you can answer it how you want. So the answer is: there are limits to what a government can or can't do? Being gay is a capitol crime, becoming Muslim isn't?
tulc(just wondering)

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Well duh, it's used it several times.

Whether or not it has the right to use it is another question.

Do you have the right to execute someone in an inter-personal relationship?

Maybe you should read Romans 12 for a change. Paul said to submit to authorities right after saying not to resist evil with evil, not to revenge yourselves, and to overcome evil with good.


If that Bible College was worth anything, you would know chapter and verse is a medieval innovation, and Paul saying to submit to authority is the next sentence after he says to overcome evil with good.

My Bible College was awesome.

It helped me learn this:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. --Romans 13

I learned this and wow! I understand that the GOVERNMENT has been given authority by GOD to execute wrath on him who practices evil!!! Yeehah!

Therefore I am RIGHT. GOD has given the government the right to execute evil vile criminals. Thank you.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.


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[Sycophant]

10 The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. --Lev. 20

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You forgot to read the whole scripture. This was a set up by these men because they KNEW that the MAN and the WOMAN had to be brought to Him.

WHAT?!!?? That is the message you take from that. Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and what you get from the whole thing is an obscure technicality?!

The law in Lev doesn't say they have to be put to death at the same time, only that they shall both be put to death.

 

[Blackguard_]

Therefore I am RIGHT. GOD has given the government the right to execute evil vile criminals. Thank you.

Nope. The verse simply says government is a tool God can use to punish evildoers, it says nothing of the morality of the State doing that.

Remember how in the OT God uses evil nations for his own purposes such as to punish Israel? It's the same principle with the State. That it can be used to punish evil doers and used in God's plan does not mean it is in itself good.

The execution of Jesus by you vaunted authority also illustrates this. Pilate had the power to kill Jesus, but was his execution of Jesus right?
You know that verse you mentioned earlier about those who gave Pilate power having the greater sin? Well, lesser sin is still a sin.